How do I tell if transfers are being detected?

Unknown

I'm new at this.  I've got Quicken Starter 2018, in a Win10 PC.  I have had transfer detection turned on by default, but I'm seeing transfers seemingly reported as part of my cash flow.  That is, in the "spending by category" graph, I'm seeing Cash Transfers as a separate item, and being included in the total. 

It's my understanding that these transfers shouldn't be counted as part of my cash flow, but be matched between my accounts.  We have 3 chequing accounts and one savings that routinely have money transferred from one to the other, and I need to see if these transfers are being matched properly.  Is there a way of seeing this relationship? 

Meanwhile I've turned off automatic transfer detection so that I will be asked to confirm them, so hopefully this might help.  But it seems there should be a way to see the paired transactions easily, some kind of link.

Arctic Hare

@Wendy: there is no foolproof solution to downloading and recognizing transfers, but there are things that you can do so that it works correctly most of the time. What you want to happen is to have the categories for all the transfer transactions be Quicken accounts (in square brackets).



I recommend that you enter the transfers in your register either as scheduled transactions or manually entered transfers BEFORE they get downloaded. I have the vast majority of my transfers set up as scheduled transactions. For the few unscheduled ones, I manually use the Quicken transfer feature before downloading from the bank.



My transfers are nearly always automatically recognized and I rarely have issues... and I too have quite a number of transfers.

Unknown

Your concern seems to be the way the transfers are showing up in reports. The trick there is in the report settings. Any/all accounts' transactions can be included in a report, but they can also be listed as a category. Select all accounts that have transactions you wish included in your report, but when you select categories to report, unselect those same accounts. That way all your accounts are an internal part of the report, rather than being reported as an outgoing external category. So if you are tucking some money away into a separate vacation account monthly, you would want to show that account as a cash flow destination, therefore deselect including that account as an account, but select it as a category, but if you use a couple of different accounts to pay different bills, they should be selected as accounts to include, and deselected as categories. 

Unknown

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

Arctic Hare

Your concern seems to be the way the transfers are showing up in reports. The trick there is in the report settings. Any/all accounts' transactions can be included in a report, but they can also be listed as a category. Select all accounts that have transactions you wish included in your report, but when you select categories to report, unselect those same accounts. That way all your accounts are an internal part of the report, rather than being reported as an outgoing external category. So if you are tucking some money away into a separate vacation account monthly, you would want to show that account as a cash flow destination, therefore deselect including that account as an account, but select it as a category, but if you use a couple of different accounts to pay different bills, they should be selected as accounts to include, and deselected as categories. 

@fkinch: your advice is misleading. If the transfers were entered correctly, that is, using accounts as the categories, not using income/expense categories, the transfers wouldn't be problematic in reports. Enter transfers correctly and the reports work fine out of the box - no need to deselect accounts or other adjustments.

Arctic Hare

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

@Wendy: For ad hoc transfers, you absolutely are best to enter then into Q manually using the Transfer function before downloading the transfer from your bank. It works smoothly.

For example, when I pay my monthly credit card balance, I use the Transfer function in Quicken to create the transfer between Quicken accounts right after I schedule the transfer / bill payment on my bank's website. When Q later downloads the pair of associated transactions (even though they are from different banks), it correctly matches them to the respective ends of the transfer.

It is really quite simple. If you are making ad hoc transfers, enter the Transfer in Q using the Transfer feature immediately upon making the transfer at the bank (or scheduling it through the bank's website.

The reports issue is a red herring.

mshiggins

Your concern seems to be the way the transfers are showing up in reports. The trick there is in the report settings. Any/all accounts' transactions can be included in a report, but they can also be listed as a category. Select all accounts that have transactions you wish included in your report, but when you select categories to report, unselect those same accounts. That way all your accounts are an internal part of the report, rather than being reported as an outgoing external category. So if you are tucking some money away into a separate vacation account monthly, you would want to show that account as a cash flow destination, therefore deselect including that account as an account, but select it as a category, but if you use a couple of different accounts to pay different bills, they should be selected as accounts to include, and deselected as categories. 

From C. D. Bales:


"If the transfers were entered correctly, that is, using accounts as the categories, not using income/expense categories, the transfers wouldn't be problematic in reports".


I disagree.


But first: the original poster seems misguided about the purpose of "transfer detection": the only purpose of "transfer detection" is to try to help insure that two transactions that should be halves of a transfer, are indeed designated as halves of a transfer. "Transfer detection" only applies to Quicken's processing of downloaded transactions as they are being accepted into Quicken.


I do agree that to insure that transfers are properly categorized in Quicken, the user should manually do the categorization before Accepting downloaded transactions. I generally do that myself, but I have also found that Transfer Detection correctly catches virtually all the ones I forget ... while only mis-detecting some 5% (usually less than that).


When using the "Transfer Detection Preference, the user should select the option to "Confirm possible transfers ....", which can virtually guarantee no incorrect transfers are created by Transfer Detection. This also answers the question that is the Title of this discussion: when you have the "Confirm possible transfers ...." option selected, Quicken will tell you every transfer that it detects, and give you the option to create the transfer or not.


Secondly, the original poster also seems confused about "cash flow". Transfers virtually always represent "cash flow", so when Quicken treats transfers as cash flow, Quicken is usually correct. In my observations, users seem more confused about when transfers are not "cash flow"; such as assuming, for example, that transferring funds to a loan account to reduce the loan principal is an "expense", rather than a "cash flow". Everyone should try to get on the same page about the difference between "cash flow" and "income/expense".


So, to "problematic" transfers ...:


If a user wants transfers treated differently than Quicken treats them by default (the report defaults for transfers vary by report); the user can, and I believe usually should, handle that using the Report Customize dialog (as noted by fkinch). Sometimes removing transfers from the report entirely is appropriate; but sometimes removing just certain transfers is the proper approach - and that is done using the Categories tab in the report Customize dialog. It depends on the user's specific need. Sadly, the option to selectively treat transfers is not available everyplace in Quicken that it could be useful.

[There is an even finer control the user can exercise over transfers (and other transactions) that appear in reports: see the "Matching" choices on the Categories, Tags, and Payees tabs in the report Customize dialog - click

the yellow question mark on those tabs for more info on "Matching" in that context.]

Clayton200

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

What Artic Hare says works 100% without fail. For me anyway. I've come to view Transfers as a "neat" feature. Reliable and simple, can't ask for more.

Arctic Hare

Your concern seems to be the way the transfers are showing up in reports. The trick there is in the report settings. Any/all accounts' transactions can be included in a report, but they can also be listed as a category. Select all accounts that have transactions you wish included in your report, but when you select categories to report, unselect those same accounts. That way all your accounts are an internal part of the report, rather than being reported as an outgoing external category. So if you are tucking some money away into a separate vacation account monthly, you would want to show that account as a cash flow destination, therefore deselect including that account as an account, but select it as a category, but if you use a couple of different accounts to pay different bills, they should be selected as accounts to include, and deselected as categories. 

The OP is a self declared novice user. The first line of the post reads, "I'm new at this". I simplified my advice accordingly. Most likely, my succinct advice, which steers clear of certain more complex nuances, is appropriate for this user.

Unknown

I have done budgeting in my head, with the help of online banking of course, for decades--never in my life have I done a budget.  Our financial advisor suggested that we might try to establish one.  So I am evaluating Quicken and hope to compare it to the more modern competition like Mint.

So the main reason I'm doing this is to get a handle on the proportions of our income are spent on different categories, like utilities, insurance, realty taxes, car, the usual, plus travel, entertainment, the usual suspects.   This is what I was referring to as "cash flow".  Forgive me for not knowing the jargon--I think Quicken would refer to it as "Spending by Category".  What I want to be able to see is a pie chart or detailed table outlining these categories.  At the moment with perhaps a couple of months of banking in my file, I'm seeing the graph, "Spending by Category to Date", and it includes at least one transfer and there doesn't seem to be a way of finding that out.  When I look at the graph "Spending by Category to Date" I'm seeing a lot more transfers, seemingly useless information.  

I will go over the entries and see if I can figure this out.  It appears perhaps that the transfers from the CDN$ account to the USD account are not being categorized at the US end--there is no account info in [brackets] to say what account it came from.  Perhaps that's because of the exchange difference.

Anyways, thanks for your help, I'll keep plugging and asking.

Unknown

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

Arctic, thanks.  I'm wondering how it would handle currency exchange.  If one end is C$1200 and the other end is US$1000.  Guess I will find out by trying your method next time I do this.

Arctic Hare

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

I’m Canadian and use the Canadian version. Let me test it out and let you know. I don’t use my USD accounts much, except on the investment side; however, in my experience, the Canadian version handles f/x well. The US version lagged the Canadian one with the f/x functionality.

Unknown

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

Thanks.  I assumed I was talking to fellow Canadians here.  I am a snowbird, spend the winter in Florida, so transfer money down here frequently.

Arctic Hare

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

@Wendy: This forum is for both US and Canadian users; accordingly, the US folks greatly outnumber us Canucks. As far as I know, I am the only SuperUser on the forum that uses that Canadian Windows version. There is also one Canadian SU that uses the Mac version.

When you enter the transfer, Q wil ask you to confirm the exchange rate. In your case, you might have to accept the proposed rate at the time you manually enter the transaction and then fix it up later to match what actually happened between your accounts.

Here are some screen shots of the process... (note that the CAD and USD paypal accounts are labelled accordingly. You'll see that $10 CAD becomes $8.13 USD based on today's exchange rate.








Hope this helps !

Unknown

Thanks guys, I'll try to think this through.  Glad I didn't choose to be an accountant!  Problem is that the transfers are not schedule, but ad hoc.  And come and go out of our regular chequing and investment accounts, and between a Canadian and USD account.  So I can't just excude an account.  But I will study this, hopefully on a rainy day.  

Thank you so much!