Quicken won't recognize security

KnnNike
KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
edited October 2018 in Investing (Windows)
I've got a weird problem here. I want to manually enter a security purchase...the ticker symbol is LBTYA. When I open the investment transaction window, I type "LBTYA" in the "Security name" field and hit tab. This opens the "Add Security to Quicken" window, and the software appears to recognize LBTYA as "Liberty Global PLC".


So...I select this security from the list, and click next. It appears to download all of the security info and gives me a message "Quicken will add the following information for the new security Liberty Global PLC". The name, ticker symbol, asset class, etc. are all correct. So I click "Done" to go back to the transaction window, except the security info didn't get carried over! 

If I enter all of the other info - number of shares, price, etc., and click "Enter/Done", the "Add Security to Quicken" window pops back up and prompts me to select LBTYA from the list all over again. I am unable to save/complete this transaction, and the software seems to be stuck in this endless loop of trying to pull down the info for LBTYA.


Here's the window I'm stuck on...I cannot get LBTYA to "stick" in the "Security name" field.

image

Has anyone seen this happen before? What to do?

Comments

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited October 2018
    At any time, did you alter the name of the security to be the same as the ticker symbol?


    Because, when I create that security, inputting LBTYA into the "Symbol or name for this new security", I get a dialog that shows Liberty Global PLC as the name and LBTYA as the ticker.

    YET, in your purchase box, you're showing the symbol in the Security Name field.Also, what Q product are you running?  What country?  And what Release/build?
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    Check your Security List (CTRL-Y) to see if both tickers are listed.
    When I tried to add LBTYK (after having added LBTYA), the newer security never got recorded in the list
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    I did try that already...LBTYA is not listed.

    So, this is starting to make more sense. It seems like there may be a bug in Quicken where if two securities with different ticker symbols have the exact same name, then Quicken will only recognize the first one entered.

    Does this sound accurate?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    You cannot have two separate securities with the same name.  After having created the first security (LBTYK), edit that securities details and change the name slightly - or significantly - in some way so that you know the difference.  You might prepend or append the ticker for example.  Then you can independently create the second security.  I would follow that with the same type of name edit so that it too is clearly distinct.  

    Quicken should be more user-friendly (IMO) in telling you it did not really create the second security ... but it is not.  
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    Thanks q.lurker. However, when Quicken pulls down new information for prices, allocations, etc., does it do this based on the name, or the ticker symbol? If the latter, then no problem. if it's based on the name, then won't altering the name break everything?
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    The download is based upon ticker.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    FYI, q.lurker's method worked. Very annoying that Quicken is not smart enough to allow different ticker symbols to be associated with identically-named securities
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    Very annoying that Quicken is not smart enough to allow different ticker symbols to be associated with identically-named securities
    If you were to enter a Dividend from "Ford" and had two separate securities named that way, "Ford", how would Quicken possibly know to which it should associate the transaction.  Having two identically named securities is a recipe for disaster.  Although some are conversant enough with the ticker symbols to rely on that as a distinguishing characteristic, the program's basis and most user relies on the security name.

    The annoying part is that Quicken never told you it didn't do what you wanted it to (create a new security) nor did it tell you why (duplicate name).  The logic behind their requirement is sound. 

    [OT:  Not unlike the issue on this get-satisfaction forum where there is no name-uniqueness required.  Anyone can create a user with the name KnnNike and without some sleuthing, one could not distinguish that other one from you.  We can have 17 Sam's and 12 Samantha's.  No obvious way to distinguish, though the Avatar can be.]
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    If the security name is the basis for everything in Quicken, I get that. But...why is that the case? NotACPA above seems to think that the ticker symbol is the basis for Quicken downloading price information...is that accurate?

    My point is that it doesn't make sense for Quicken to base its behavior for securities on a security field (name in this case) that isn't guaranteed to be unique in the real world. Ticker symbols are unique, why not use those? I'm sorry, but I don't buy the argument of not being conversant with ticker symbols...I doubt that someone would be more likely to remember the exact phrasing of a security name (e.g., "Liberty Global PLC") than they would the ticker name.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    Per the info in this graphic from their website ... the 2 securities actually DO have different names
    image
    So, try inputting LBTYA and after that's been successful, Edit the security to change the name per the above graphic.  THEN, create LBTYK and, again, change the name.
    It's not apparent why Q's provider uses the exact same name for both securities ... but this process should resolve the matter.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    If the security name is the basis for everything in Quicken, I get that. But...why is that the case? NotACPA above seems to think that the ticker symbol is the basis for Quicken downloading price information...is that accurate?
    NotACPA's comment is accurate.  But the idea that security name or any other one item is "the basis for everything" is not accurate.  

    Downloading quotes feeds off of ticker symbol.  No valid ticker = no data; some valid tickers still might not feed, like some thinly traded securities, penny stocks, and similar that the data supplier does not feed to (sell to) Quicken, Inc.  

    Transfer of data from financial institutions feeds off of CUSIP (primarily, exceptions possible).  Your Quicken security gets 'matched' to the brokerage supplied security information.  Neither names nor tickers have to match to manage that interface -- only that you have told Q-A matches B-B.  

    Most manually entered data feeds off of security name.  (This is adapting some with QW2018 as I understand it as ticker becomes a valid tool).  The user as prompted types or selects a security name to enter a transaction.

    Why relying on all three at different times and modes is probably rooted in the development history of the program and a partial consequence of advances and changes in the communication between program (user), financial institution (brokerage) and third-party data supplier.       
    My point is that it doesn't make sense for Quicken to base its behavior for securities on a security field (name in this case) that isn't guaranteed to be unique in the real world. Ticker symbols are unique, why not use those? 
    I tend not to answer "Why"questions because I don't have any inside knowledge as to why program developers made certain choices, but I will offer that tickers are not absolutely unique.  They can get changed and reused over time, and for preferred stocks specifically, different brokers may use different forms for the same security.  Tickers are also not applicable for bonds.  

    In your specific case, you were caught by two failures on the part of the program (broad definition).  First, the data supplier did not properly feed the full name (Class A, B, or C) of the security to each ticker.  So whether you used LBTYA or LBTYK, the program fed back to you the same security name.  The lookup should not do that.  This is a relatively new issue in that this prompting of the user for the ticker is fairly new.  I think prior to QW2017, the prompt was for security name and the lookup  worked off of that.  

    The second failure as I described above was when Quicken did not tell you it had not  created the new security - for whatever reason.  That is a very long-standing issue going back at least 15 years and maybe close to 30.
  • KnnNike
    KnnNike Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    Very insightful comments, thanks to both q.lurker and Not ACPA :-)
  • Bob_L
    Bob_L SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    KnnNike said:

    Sorry, should've clarified. Quicken 2018 Premier R8.8. USA.

    I'm not clear what you mean with your question. I didn't alter anything. My normal tactic is to enter the ticker symbol in the "Security Name" box, hit tab, then Quicken opens a new window that finds the full name, asset breakdown, etc., and feeds it back to the "Security Name" box. That last step is not happening, even though Quicken appears to find the correct info.

    There may be a related issue here. There are actually two different "Liberty Global PLC". One is LBTYA and one is LBTYK. I have holdings in both. Weirdly though, the whole process worked with LBTYK with no issues. So I wonder if Quicken is somehow thinking that LBTYA is a duplicate of LBTYK (since the full name is identical) and refusing to complete the transaction. Hmm...

    As q.lurker said, the history of quicken drives a lot of this. In the beginning there was no online lookup for prices etc., and securities did not need to have a symbol. (I remember in my 401k back then, and even today, there are securities private to that fund which have no ticker.)


    As for uniqueness, I expect there is a table for securities and each record in it has a unique identifier or ID that we never see. Name, symbol, etc are also fields in each of those security records holding similar unique ID codes related to foreign tables for symbol, name etc.
    Quicken Premier Subscription, Windows 10 Home
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