Quicken Community is moving to Single Sign On! Starting 1/22/21, you'll sign in to the community with your Quicken ID. For more information: http://bit.ly/CommunitySSO

Historical prices incorrect after split

TheDude
TheDude Member
edited July 2018 in Investing (Windows)

Q2017H&B R15.13 Build 26.1.15.13, Win10

Quicken price history, and thus all related calculations,
are incorrect after Stock Split.  In my
case, DDM split 3 for 1 on 5/24/18.

 

Historical prices seem to have all been updated to the price
before the split divided by 3.  Thus:

1)     
All reporting for periods before the split, such
as Market Value, Gains/Loss..., are misstated.

2)     
Reporting for the day of split misstated as
having a massive gain that day.

3)     
Reporting for periods after split are OK, since
Number of Share and Current prices are correct.

 

Other threads seem to have different circumstances, unless I
missed it.  In a similar thread (post), https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/problem-with-historical-price-for-itr   , q.lurker suggests 2 possible
alternatives to the stated problem.

a)    Create the new security, new name, new ticker, and use a
Corporate Acquisition to have that new security acquire the old one.

b)     
Edit the original security name to be the new
name; edit the original ticker....  

 

It seems the only reasonable approach is to use a) in my
case, but I’m not sure if there is a better solution.  Any other suggestions?

Comments

  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Just to make sure... you are saying that pre-split prices have all been divided by 3 - putting them on the same basis as the post-split prices - but that the number of shares pre-split have not been multiplied by 3 and, accordingly, all reporting that relies on (# of shares x price per share) are wrong?

    That behavior is inconsistent with how Quicken has always worked.  That is, at the time of the split Quicken multiplies the number of shares by the appropriate split number and of course share prices subsequent to the split are downloaded on a post-split basis.  Prior period number of shares and prices are not affected.

    I don't think the post you cite is necessarily relevant as that seemed to involve a name change and an exchange of shares.  If I characterized the problem correctly my first thought would be to restore a backup to the day before you entered the split transaction and try entering the split again.  I can't grasp what went wrong here but what you are describing is not the way the program should work.
  • TheDude
    TheDude Member
    edited May 2018
    Tom, thanks for the response.  i did some research and posted an UPDATE, not sure why it is not showing, maybe I did not Submit and accidentally canceled.

    After some further research, I found that Quicken is getting pricing data on a "Post Split Price" beginning 5/18/18 even though the split occurred on 5/24/18.  So for the period between 5/18 to 5/24 everything is wrong for this security.  (ie. the split shows as 5/24, thus everything is properly balanced after that date.

    I changed the split date to 5/18/18 to make everything logically sync, but after changing it, Quicken issues notices that the 5/24 split is missing and wants to add it.

    Seems like I have 2 options.
    A) leave the split date and price data as is.  Then add a reminder transaction that the data is wrong between 5/18 - 5/24.
    B) modify the price history.  My fear on this one is at some point it may get overwritten with downloads and the data will be wrong aging, just as in A Above.

    Not sure what other course of action is appropriate, but since I can take the path of A), not really a big deal, especially as time goes on. 
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    There's only 4 days of pricing that need to be changed here.  I'd leave the split at the correct date then edit the price history for those 4 days.
    If the prices are actually 1/3rd of the correct prices for those days then simply take the price and multiply by 3.  You'll have to look and see if the volume also needs adjusting.
    To edit the price open the Holdings view in an Account where you have the security, click on the security, click "Update", click "Edit price history" and change those 4 days.  That should set everything right.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Your cited other post is wholly unrelated to a stock split issue.  It dealt with a name and ticker change.  Do not use my answer in that other discussion in the context of your issue.

    In the context of the DDM 3:1 split, when I add DDM to my security list, I get the price history shown as:  
    image

    That is exactly what I would expect and what Quicken should be showing.  From the ProShares announcement:
    All forward splits will apply to shareholders of record as of the close of the markets on May 21, 2018, payable after the close of the markets on May 23, 2018. The funds will trade at their post-split prices on May 24, 2018. The ticker symbols and CUSIP numbers for the funds will not change.
    Based on that information, I would have the StkSplt transaction entered for May 22 at 3:1.  All information prior to that date would be accurate and historically correct based on owning '1' share.  All information after that date would be accurate and reflect owning '3' shares.

    If you look at the Security Detail view price (with and without split adjustment) and market value graphs, you should be seeing rational and reasonable presentations. 

    1.  No reporting for periods before the split, such as Market Value, Gains/Loss..., will be misstated.  They will be based on the shares owned at that time and the closing prices at those times (as applicable).  I have seen no justification for your assertion otherwise.  

    2.  Because of a poor algorithm for computing the day change, reporting for the day of split will misstate the gain/loss for that day-of-split.  As best I recall, Quicken does that calculation something like (Newer Price - Older Price) x (Current shares Held).  The same type of issue occurs (IIRC) anytime you have a change in share quantity.    

    FWIW:  I see that Yahoo Finance is reporting the adjusted prices as applicable before the split.  That data is not compatible with the Quicken setup which maintains the original pre-split share quantities before the split.  I disagree with Yahoo's presentation and would consider that incorrect.  
      
  • TheDude
    TheDude Member
    edited May 2018
    Gentlemen (presumably), thank you for your responses.  

    Q.Lurker, good observations, but my experience is a bit different.  This is what I get for price history.

    image

    It is slightly different from yours in that the price changes on 5/18.  As a result I changed the split date to 5/18.

    image

    But there still seems to be a problem.  The graph of prices, without the split adjust looks correct, excepting the change occurs on 5/18, not 5/22.

    image

    But the graph with the Split Adjustment appears to be erroneous.  It appears to show an old share price of 1/3 x 1/3 = 1/9th of the actual.  See below.

    image

    So, something is still not working correctly in the systems calculations used in the graphics.   

    However, I should note that by using the downloaded price history, with split price of 5/18, and having my split transaction set to 5/18, all my P/L and Valuation calculations seem to be fine.  

    My remaining concern are: 
    1) If I am ever forced to rebuild Price history, will it all go haywire.
    2) Will the system continue to prompt me for the "missing Split Transaction" as it has recently, as ithe system downloads the split transaction from the TDAmer Data to have occurred on 5/24/18.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    TheDude said:

    Gentlemen (presumably), thank you for your responses.  

    Q.Lurker, good observations, but my experience is a bit different.  This is what I get for price history.

    image

    It is slightly different from yours in that the price changes on 5/18.  As a result I changed the split date to 5/18.

    image

    But there still seems to be a problem.  The graph of prices, without the split adjust looks correct, excepting the change occurs on 5/18, not 5/22.

    image

    But the graph with the Split Adjustment appears to be erroneous.  It appears to show an old share price of 1/3 x 1/3 = 1/9th of the actual.  See below.

    image

    So, something is still not working correctly in the systems calculations used in the graphics.   

    However, I should note that by using the downloaded price history, with split price of 5/18, and having my split transaction set to 5/18, all my P/L and Valuation calculations seem to be fine.  

    My remaining concern are: 
    1) If I am ever forced to rebuild Price history, will it all go haywire.
    2) Will the system continue to prompt me for the "missing Split Transaction" as it has recently, as ithe system downloads the split transaction from the TDAmer Data to have occurred on 5/24/18.

    Re the price graph ... What you are seeing is the effect of a hidden split in the price history information. The way I have found to negate that effect is to now edit your stock split transaction to the date of 5/24 and then edit it a second time back to the 5/18 date. That change may (or may not) stop the prompt for the missing split. I do not believe that prompt is coming from the TDAmerica side of the downloads; it is from Quicken's download quotes feature.


    Re rebuilding the price history ... Haywire? Tough to say what is haywire, but yes, data could get messed up again. As an example, if you now deleted the last 15 days of prices and reloaded them via Quicken's servers, you might find data more like mine and want to change the date of the split. If you needed to backfill in data from Yahoo Finance, that too could create an undesirable circumstance.


    HTH
  • TheDude
    TheDude Member
    edited May 2018
    Great catch on the "hidden" split.  I changed as suggested, initially there was an interim anomaly for the dates 5/18 to 5/24 when showing split adjusted graph.  Upon changing back and restarting all seems to be correct now.  Thanks for your help and insightful knowledge of those obscure inner workings of the application.
      
This discussion has been closed.