Can I correct a 21 year old account setup mistake?

ScottyC

So I've been using Quicken for Windows for a long time, so I have a LOT of old investment data that has carried into my current file, even though I have been doing year-end archiving. In 1999 I set up 2 IRA accounts (for me and my spouse), but set them up horribly wrong.

I set their holding as the name of the account, not the mutual fund, so I have a bunch of holdings listed as shares in "My Roth IRA" and "Her Roth IRA" rather than the mutual fund symbol. (It's the same mutual fund for each of us.) Since I've always manually entered those transactions, it didn't flag any problems with the financial institution. Just stupidity and inexperience.

Of course, I have no visibility into the actual holding value without manually updating them both individually to the same number. Also, now that I plan to reallocate the funds in the IRA to multiple mutual funds, it doesn't support doing that in the current configuration.

Is there any way to un-screw the mess I've made of this other than manually editing 21 years of transactions in 2 accounts? (And of course, those contribution transactions will insist on having an account linked to them as a source of funds which I have long-since closed...)

I'm not sure if there's a way out of this at all, to be honest. Maybe manually editing 21 years x 12 months x 2 accounts and setting the transfer account to be a dummy temporary account? Hopefully someone has a better solution than that...

Thanks for any ideas!

q_lurker

Hmmm.  IMO, you either did it 'right' or explained it wrong or incompletely.  

Creating accounts named as "My Roth" and "Her Roth", is the correct approach (IMO).  The ACCOUNTS should not be tied to or reflect a single fund since as you are now seeing, you may want to change the funds involved.  So I would first leave the ACCOUNT names in Quicken unchanged.  

"now that I plan to reallocate the funds in the IRA to multiple mutual funds, it doesn't support doing that in the current configuration."

The only aspect stopping that from happening that I know of would be if you set up the accounts as Single Mutual Fund (SMF) accounts.  If you did that, it is easily changed.  Edit the Account Details and switch the Yes to a No.  Once that is done, you can sell shares of the current holding and buy shares of the new funds as you diversify.  (more later).

Now what you may have done poorly is create two funds when one would have been better.  There is a suggestion in your write-up that "Her Roth" account might own shares of "Her Fund" security while your account owns shares of "His Fund", and in the real world His Fund and Her Fund are the same fund.  There are a variety ways to overcome that situation.  

If you are going to ell all current holdings, do that and leave your history behind you.

You could also enter a Corporate Acquisition or Mutual Fund Conversion where the 'proper real-world fund' takes over Her Fund and His Fund (two separate actions via the Enter Transactions button).  That too will leave history behind and ease things going forward. 

There are some ways to change history, but let's see where you want to go before exploring those.

The 'more later' info -- What I've described for you -- 1 account each -- is my strong preference for the proper setup. But some MF families only support setups requiring a one-fund / one-account relationship, more like what you had setup.  You need to see what the fund family requirements in that direction.  If they require the 1-1 relationship, you'll have some more work to do.  

HTH for a start.

Sherlock

If the issue is the name of the security, I suggest you press Ctrl + Y, navigate to the security, select Edit, and correct the name, and select OK.  You may also reset the the symbol, etc.  

Note:  There isn't anything wrong with having multiple names for the same security but, if you want them to be the same, your best bet is to manually edit the security in the transactions in one of the accounts.  If you just want them to be the same moving forward, you may use the Mutual Fund Conversion wizard.

Before making any significant changes to the data file, save a backup: press Ctrl + B

Sherlock

ScottyC said:

Thanks, and very helpful - but you're right - I must not have explained the entire issue completely. Your description of future diversification is perfect. Can do. That's solved. Thanks!

Here's the part I didn't explain well.

I have an account called "My Roth". It's holdings is shares in a mutual fund ("SMMIX"), but that's not what Quicken shows. This account holds a made-up investment called "My Roth Fund" rather than SMMIX.

I have a second account ("Her Roth") that holds a made-up investment called "Her Roth Fund"). In reality, both are holding shares in mutual fund SMMIX, but neither reflects that. They each show holdings in their unique, made-up investments.

Had I set it up right, I could have looked at a view that shows me our total position in SMMIX. Can't do that now, because the accounts don't hold that mutual fund; they hold unique, made-up investments.

(I told you I was stupid 21 years ago.)

Can I use Mutual Fund Conversion to magically change "My Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? And then "Her Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? That would be amazing, I think. History would still be in the account, and the investments would show the correct real-world funds going forward.

Will that work?

Thanks for the advice!

I think you explained it well enough the first time. 

You may change My Roth Fund to SMMIX or Invesco Summit Fund Class P or whatever you want to name the security.  You may also set the Symbol to SMMIX.

The point at which you'll have an issue is when you attempt to give a security a name that is already in use as when you attempt to rename Her Roth Fund to the same name you used for My Roth Fund.  Note: Both securities may be given the same symbol.

You should be able to perform the Mutual Fund Conversion on both securities if that is what you prefer to do.  Note: The Corporate Acquisition wizard should also work.

volvogirl

Can't you just add the symbol to them?  Sounds like how I set mine up. I have Vanguard GNMA IRA him and Vanguard GNMA IRA her with the same symbol on them.

q_lurker

Hmmm.  IMO, you either did it 'right' or explained it wrong or incompletely.  

Creating accounts named as "My Roth" and "Her Roth", is the correct approach (IMO).  The ACCOUNTS should not be tied to or reflect a single fund since as you are now seeing, you may want to change the funds involved.  So I would first leave the ACCOUNT names in Quicken unchanged.  

"now that I plan to reallocate the funds in the IRA to multiple mutual funds, it doesn't support doing that in the current configuration."

The only aspect stopping that from happening that I know of would be if you set up the accounts as Single Mutual Fund (SMF) accounts.  If you did that, it is easily changed.  Edit the Account Details and switch the Yes to a No.  Once that is done, you can sell shares of the current holding and buy shares of the new funds as you diversify.  (more later).

Now what you may have done poorly is create two funds when one would have been better.  There is a suggestion in your write-up that "Her Roth" account might own shares of "Her Fund" security while your account owns shares of "His Fund", and in the real world His Fund and Her Fund are the same fund.  There are a variety ways to overcome that situation.  

If you are going to ell all current holdings, do that and leave your history behind you.

You could also enter a Corporate Acquisition or Mutual Fund Conversion where the 'proper real-world fund' takes over Her Fund and His Fund (two separate actions via the Enter Transactions button).  That too will leave history behind and ease things going forward. 

There are some ways to change history, but let's see where you want to go before exploring those.

The 'more later' info -- What I've described for you -- 1 account each -- is my strong preference for the proper setup. But some MF families only support setups requiring a one-fund / one-account relationship, more like what you had setup.  You need to see what the fund family requirements in that direction.  If they require the 1-1 relationship, you'll have some more work to do.  

HTH for a start.

Sherlock

If the issue is the name of the security, I suggest you press Ctrl + Y, navigate to the security, select Edit, and correct the name, and select OK.  You may also reset the the symbol, etc.  

Note:  There isn't anything wrong with having multiple names for the same security but, if you want them to be the same, your best bet is to manually edit the security in the transactions in one of the accounts.  If you just want them to be the same moving forward, you may use the Mutual Fund Conversion wizard.

Before making any significant changes to the data file, save a backup: press Ctrl + B

ScottyC

Thanks, and very helpful - but you're right - I must not have explained the entire issue completely. Your description of future diversification is perfect. Can do. That's solved. Thanks!

Here's the part I didn't explain well.

I have an account called "My Roth". It's holdings is shares in a mutual fund ("SMMIX"), but that's not what Quicken shows. This account holds a made-up investment called "My Roth Fund" rather than SMMIX.

I have a second account ("Her Roth") that holds a made-up investment called "Her Roth Fund"). In reality, both are holding shares in mutual fund SMMIX, but neither reflects that. They each show holdings in their unique, made-up investments.

Had I set it up right, I could have looked at a view that shows me our total position in SMMIX. Can't do that now, because the accounts don't hold that mutual fund; they hold unique, made-up investments.

(I told you I was stupid 21 years ago.)

Can I use Mutual Fund Conversion to magically change "My Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? And then "Her Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? That would be amazing, I think. History would still be in the account, and the investments would show the correct real-world funds going forward.

Will that work?

Thanks for the advice!

Sherlock

ScottyC said:

Thanks, and very helpful - but you're right - I must not have explained the entire issue completely. Your description of future diversification is perfect. Can do. That's solved. Thanks!

Here's the part I didn't explain well.

I have an account called "My Roth". It's holdings is shares in a mutual fund ("SMMIX"), but that's not what Quicken shows. This account holds a made-up investment called "My Roth Fund" rather than SMMIX.

I have a second account ("Her Roth") that holds a made-up investment called "Her Roth Fund"). In reality, both are holding shares in mutual fund SMMIX, but neither reflects that. They each show holdings in their unique, made-up investments.

Had I set it up right, I could have looked at a view that shows me our total position in SMMIX. Can't do that now, because the accounts don't hold that mutual fund; they hold unique, made-up investments.

(I told you I was stupid 21 years ago.)

Can I use Mutual Fund Conversion to magically change "My Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? And then "Her Roth Fund" to "SMMIX"? That would be amazing, I think. History would still be in the account, and the investments would show the correct real-world funds going forward.

Will that work?

Thanks for the advice!

I think you explained it well enough the first time. 

You may change My Roth Fund to SMMIX or Invesco Summit Fund Class P or whatever you want to name the security.  You may also set the Symbol to SMMIX.

The point at which you'll have an issue is when you attempt to give a security a name that is already in use as when you attempt to rename Her Roth Fund to the same name you used for My Roth Fund.  Note: Both securities may be given the same symbol.

You should be able to perform the Mutual Fund Conversion on both securities if that is what you prefer to do.  Note: The Corporate Acquisition wizard should also work.

ScottyC

I can use Ctrl-Y to rename ONE of the made-up securities to the proper name, but when I try to rename the second one, I get an error because I already have a security with that name.

As Sherlock said, there's nothing technically wrong with having 2 different names pointing to the same security, but it makes analyzing holdings weird or misleading (apparent diversification where there is none).

I guess I can rename the security with one of the accounts and then either do the mutual fund conversion (to fix future-only) or manually edit all transactions (to fix history and future) on the other.

Thanks for the advice!

(Here's the dirty little secret - I simplified the situation for ease of explanation. There are actually 5 separate accounts set up this way. My Roth, Her Roth, My Traditional, Her Traditional, and a plain Investment. Each with a uniquely-named security that are all actually the same mutual fund. Some go back to 1991. That would be a LOT of manual correction! I think the Mutual Fund Conversion may be the way to go.)

Thanks again!!

q_lurker

"I guess I can rename the security with one of the accounts and then either do the mutual fund conversion (to fix future-only) or manually edit all transactions (to fix history and future) on the other."

You got it.