Portfolio View

I am long time Quicken user who altered Security Type list years ago. Quicken uses my altered list without problems except with attempts to use Morningstar data. My Mutual Fund holdings in Portfolio View display Morningstar Fund Category and Category Rank but not Morningstar Rating, Return , or Risk.

Answers

  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you changed the Security Types of your mutual funds, you'll have to change them back to Mutual Fund to see the rest of the Morningstar data.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    I altered the original Security Types list years ago and added more Security types of my own. Today, I tried changing one of my renamed Security Types to "Mutual Fund" but it did not help. "Mutual Fund" was the 2nd entry if the original Security type List. It is the placement of the the entry Security Type list rather than what typed as the Security Type that allows Morningstar recognition?
    Morningstar does give me mutual fund category and rank (but not Rating Return or Risk) using my altered Security Types.
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also have a modified Security Type list. Mutual Fund is currently 9th in my list. In a newly-created file, it's 6th as shown below. So I don't think position in the list matters. Did you do an Update in the Portfolio View after changing the type to Mutual Fund? That caused a previously empty set of MStar ratings to populate for me.
    The only other thing I can think of is that you renamed the wrong security type to Mutual Fund. The real Mutual Fund type has Use Average Cost and Back Load in its Details dialog. If you can get those to appear, you've found the right type.

    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Only the "Bond" Security Type came with any extra features at bottom of screen. I have used maximum number of Security Types and cannot add more. I might have deleted the original Mutual Fund security type instead of editing it. Any way to fix my error and restore the missing Mutual Fund security type?
    Also it is strange that I can get some Morningstar data for both stocks and mutual funds. Morningstar does give me mutual fund Category and Rank (but not Rating, Return, or Risk) using my altered Security Types.
    Also, in Investing Tab, the Allocation View lists my mutual funds with correct symbols in "Allocation by Security" but at the bottom of screen under "Mutual Funds Ratings from Morningstar" it states I have no mutual funds in selected accounts
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    Current Quicken does not allow deleting predefined security types. I can't recall whether it ever did, but it's possible. If you've cycled through all your types and didn't encounter Use Average Cost & Back Load, I think you're out of luck.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't believe you ever could delete any of the 'original' 10 security types, but you always (?) could rename them.  The renaming process did not change their underlying attributes.  I recall renaming for a short short while before deciding that would be a really bad idea.  I still have those original 10 plus 8 others that are inherently generic.  They allow asset mixtures like a MF, but that is about it.  When you rename and/or add types, the sequence of types always re-orders alphabetically.

    In my experience, only securities with the type = Mutual Fund AND a valid MF ticker get any Morningstar info.  But if you get some such info, you should get all available info as far as I know.
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    I have cycled through all my Security Types and didn't encounter "Use Average Cost & Back Load".
    I suspect I deleted Mutual Fund security type way back when that was possible. This was before Quicken had any link to Morningstar. I reworked the Quicken Security Types to imitate the Morningstar Mutual Fund categories. (I have been Quicken user for over 20 years.)
    I cannot understand how I still can get some Morningstar data. In Portfolio View, Morningstar does give me mutual fund Category and Rank (but not Rating, Return, or Risk) using my altered Security Types.
    Also, in Investing Tab, the Allocation View lists my mutual funds with correct symbols in "Allocation by Security" but at the bottom of screen under "Mutual Funds Ratings from Morningstar" it states I have no mutual funds in selected accounts.
    How can I get some but not all Morningstar data?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Helpful.  For funds I have NOT with type = Mutual Funds, I also get Fund Category, Fund Rank YTD, 1-, 3, 5-Yr data but not Fund Average P/E, Fund Category P/E nor the three Morningstar measures.  It I reset any of fund to type = Mutual fund, the Morningstar measures do appear, but still not the two P/E values.

    I suspect the file has all the data (except the two P/E values) downloaded as part of the standard of 'quotes' information.  I don't think there is any separate communication with Morningstar.  I further speculate that it is just the portfolio view construction that limits display of Morningstar Rating, Risk and Return to show only for securities with type = Mutual fund.  

    Sidebar of interest:  I can set the type for an ETF to be Mutual Fund and the three Morningstar ratings appear for that ETF.  Limited test (one ETF).  

    As I indicated, I didn't think it was ever possible to delete one of the built-in types.  Maybe you are proving me wrong.  I am afraid if your original MF type is truly gone, and not just renamed, there is little hope of recovering it.  I have found that renaming the type is not a factor to portfolio views displaying the Morningstar ratings.    
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Is there any hope to change code to allow the 3 Morningstar Ratings and all Morningstar data to come though to Portfolio View regardless of Security Type?
    To see Morningstar Rating, Return , and Risk I have been forced to subscribe to Morningstar directly and display its Portfolio page on my IPad while running Quicken on my computer.
  • Rocket J Squirrel
    Rocket J Squirrel SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any hope? Maybe, if enough people vote for q_lurker's idea.
    It sounds like you botched your file by clobbering the one true Mutual Fund type. You could always start a new file and rebuild your life's history. Haha, every year I tell myself I'm going to do that, but I never do.
    Quicken user since version 2 for DOS, now using QWin Premier Subscription on Win10 Pro.
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Ironic story: I modified Security Types about 30 years ago in order to simulate Morningstar Fund Categories. At the time Quicken had scant tech support and no relations with Morningstar. This adaptation worked very well but has apparently resulted in not being able to get Morningstar Rating, Risk, and Return.
    Please help with another mystery. In Investing Tab, then Performance, then Growth of $10,000: Quicken does not recognize my Indexes. Where can I get Quicken's true symbols for the Dow, S & P 500 , an Russell 2000? Did my modification of Quicken's "Index" Security Type prevent it from recognizing indexes?
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20
    Unless your security types are broken, any security with a type of Market Index should appear as an option in the Growth of $10K
    Dow = DJI
    Russel 2000 = IUX
    S&P 500 = INX - Despite the on-screen text, this does NOT include dividends
    S&P 500 Total Return, which includes reinvested dividends = index:spxt
    QWin Premier subscription
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Hi Jim,

    This is part of larger issue.

    Ironic story: I modified and possibly deleted some Quicken Security Types about 30 years ago in order to simulate Morningstar Fund Categories. At the time Quicken had scant tech support and no relations with Morningstar. This adaptation worked very well over the years but has apparently now resulted in my not being able to get Morningstar Rating, Risk, and Return since I probably deleted “Mutual Fund” Security Type. However, I can still get Morningstar Fund Category, Fund Rank and YTD, 1-, 3, 5-Yr data. Would it be possible to allow all Morningstar data to come through rather than just part of it?

    In Investing Tab, then Performance, then Growth of $10,000: Quicken does not recognize my Indexes which do have correct symbols. Did my possible modification or deletion of Quicken's "Index" Security Type prevent it from recognizing indexes? Quicken does recognize my Indexes as securities and downloads their price in my Home Tab in Watch List. However, Quicken will not use the indexes to compare my returns to the indexes.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @vitreous, I have been following this thread and I understand what you have done to the security types. That's what I summarized with "Unless your security types are broken"
    QWin Premier subscription
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    So as I check out Security Types I find most selections have options below the "Asset Class" box as follows:
    • Market Index -- None
    • All except Market Index including user defined -- Tax Free check box
    In addition to the Tax Free check box, unique to the other standard types:
    • Bond -- Bond Type field, Maturity Date, Call Date 
    • CD, and US Saving Bond -- Maturity Date
    • Mutual Funds -- Use Avg Cost checkbox, and Back Load % field  
    • Stocks -- No Asset Class mixture option in Asset Class box
    Emp. Stock Option  and ESPP are special setup cases  I did not delve into.

    I do not believe the "Other Info" options vary with security type selection.

    So if you see one of your types does not offer the Tax Free Checkbox, that type was (I believe) originally named Market Index.  Any index security with that security type should be visible for the Growth of $10K chart.  

    FWIW: my securities with security type = Market Index are the four Jim mentions plus the NASDAQ Composite with ticker = COMPX.

    My comparison options for the Growth of $10K are:

    Those options are not dependent on the type name = Market Index.  I can edit the name for that type and these same options remain available.  

    So again, it appears if you actually did manage to delete the original security types, you may well be SOL at this point.  I remain hopeful that you will be able to determine you renamed types rather than deleted. types. 

  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Thank all of you for your help.

    It looks like the only original Security Type remaining is Bond. The rest of my original Security Types were probably deleted many years ago so I could use the replacements to mimic the Morningstar Fund categories. This was long before Quicken had any links to Morningstar. Deleting the Mutual Fund Security Type seems to be keeping me from seeing Morningstar Rating, Risk, and Return in Portfolio View but surprisingly I can see Morningstar Fund Category, Fund Rank and YTD, 1-, 3, 5-Yr data. So the absence of my original Mutual Fund Security Type has created a partial block to Morningstar data in Portfolio View. Is there any way to fix this and how can block be partial?

    On the Growth of 10 K chart issue: all of my Security Types have the Tax Free Checkbox. Therefore I have probably long ago deleted the original Market Index Security Type and replaced it with another of similar name. Is this the reason I can see my indexes in my Watch List but the Growth of 10 K chart will not run them?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this the reason I can see my indexes in my Watch List but the Growth of 10 K chart will not run them?
    I believe so.  The offering for the comparison indexes is predicated on the (as originally named) Market Index type of security.  With no such type (by any name), you have no selections to make.  

    You can have the indexes (DJI, etc.) as securities and your could create your own type with the name Market Index.  As a security, you can get all the available downloadable information.  But since that type won't have whatever hidden attributes the original had, they won't really be treated as Market Indexes. (That's your problem, in a nutshell.)  

    You can find other posts around here where users have applied the real Market Index type to a security (and index fund or ETF for example), and then complain that they can't Buy that security in their accounts.  Quicken has a built in restriction that such 'real' Market Indexes are not tradeable securities.  In your state now, you won't have that problem.  (Lucky you?)    
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    I think you have explained Index issue. Regarding the Mornihgstar issue, is there any hope for Quicken to allow full access to Morningstar data in the absence of the Original "Mutual Fund " Security type.

    At this point, it looks like my only original Security Type remaining is Bond. The rest of my original Security Types were probably deleted many years ago so I could use the replacements to mimic the Morningstar Fund categories. This was long before Quicken had any links to Morningstar. Deleting the Mutual Fund Security Type seems to be keeping me from seeing Morningstar Rating, Risk, and Return in Portfolio View but surprisingly I can see Morningstar Fund Category, Fund Rank and YTD, 1-, 3, 5-Yr data. So the absence of my original Mutual Fund Security Type has apparently created a partial block to Morningstar data in Portfolio View. Is there any way to fix this and how can block be partial?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is asking if there is any hope of my posted "idea" being implemented.

    To that, I answer:  I have hope but little expectation.  I would sure think it would be a simple change.  Removing an "IF / ENDIF" statement 'one' place.  But I likewise realize I know nothing about the code, and my 'simple' may be far from the truth. 

    As I think I indicated, I don't think there is direct communication with Morningstar.  The third-party Quicken contracts with provides all those data values and they are all downloaded into the database.  In my case since I have the original type, I can toggle the type for a given mutual fund.  Toggle away from that "Mutual Fund" type - Risk, Reward, Return columns go blank.  Toggle back to that type, they reappear.  How can the block be partial?  By only blocking it for those three columns.  Why a partial block?  No idea.  

    You could certainly create a test file and prove the point if you were so inclined.  There are some brute-force ways to export your data and read it into to a new file using QIF files.  Possible, but not easy and not without risk as far as I know.  The primary catch seems to be transfers between accounts. In my case with 30 years of data, I don't imagine it would go well.  
  • vitreous
    vitreous Member ✭✭
    Thank you for erudite reply.
    I still haver a very functional system and the Index and Morningstar issues can be worked around.
    I also have 30 years of data and would be reluctant to risk integrity.
    Transfers between accounts seemed to create more problems than anything else. Is there a reason for this?
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