Edit Memorized Payee List - How to use the [Amount] field ?

PhranceQueTara

How precisely does the Quicken software use the [Amount] field?   (in Edit Memorized Payee List)

Question 1: Does Amount 0.00 represent "Any" Amount?
When leaving the [Amount] field blank (or entering 0.00), then this memorized payee will be applied to the next matching downloaded transaction with ANY amount.  So, 0.00 is basically a wildcard for filed [Amount].
Correct?

Question 2:  How to set a range or an approximate amount?
Example: I have Home_Insurance and Car_Insurance with AAA.  All AAA transactions look identical for [Downloaded payee] and [Downloaded memo], they all say "AAA Insurance", that's it.  The only differentiator is the amount.  Home_Insurance amount is always around $50, &  Car_Insurance always around $100.  Amounts vary slightly month-2-month, because of AAA's stupid payoff calculations.
How to set it up, that transactions from "AAA Insurance" for amount $49 to $51 will be categorized as Home_Insurance?
How to set it up, that transactions from "AAA Insurance" for amount $95 to $105 will be categorized as Car_Insurance?

Question 3: What is checkbox "Mark as cleared" good for?
Next to the field [Amount], there is a checkbox: [x] Mark as cleared.
What precisley does it mean to have the [Amount] checkmarked as cleared?
What is the difference between a cleared [Amount] versus an un-cleared [Amount] ?


For Clarity:  I'm referring to this filed:
Navigate to the memorized payees via Menu/Tools/Memorized Payee List, then right-click on any of the memorized payees and click [Edit]. Then the the window for "Edit Memorized Payee" will pop up, and there is a field for [Amount].

Chris_QPW

Let me start by saying that the Memorized Payee list gets used in two contexts (three if you count the check writing dialog).

The main reason it is called the memorized payee list is that the very first function it had (and still has) is for when you are manually entering a transaction.  As you type in the payee if it matches one of the memorized payees in that list it will fill in the other fields like the category and amount.

The second context is when downloading transactions if a memorized payee is matched it will pick up fields like the category and tags, but any information it the downloaded fields like the amount will override what is in the memorized payee entry.

On #1
Entering 0.00 in the amount of the memorized payee is sort of a special case.  When entering a transaction from using a payee from the list that has 0.00 Quicken treats that as "leave the amount blank".  When downloading this of course doesn't apply since there is an amount downloaded, which gets used.

On #2
Unfortunately there isn't any such option in Quicken.  About the closest you can come to this is using the "estimate" option on a reminder for a given bill.  Note that the estimate option only works if you haven't tied a reminder to an online bill.

On #3
'c" in the cleared status means that the transaction has cleared the financial institution.  This is why all downloaded transactions are marked with a 'c', because clearly if you are downloading them then they have cleared the financial institution.  So why have it in the memorized payee entry?  I would have to believe it is for the person that is entering transactions manually from a financial institution statement.  In that case again clearly they have cleared the financial institution, and this would save the step of manually change the status.  On the other hand if you are doing it "old school" then you would be entering the transactions as they occur and have yet to clear the financial institution, and you would want it to be blank to show it hasn't cleared yet.

And you didn't ask, but I will point out that this status changes to 'R"/reconciled when you reconcile the transaction with what is on the financial institution, which is to say you have found that your Quicken account is in agreement with the what the financial institution has.

q_lurker

Question 2:  Not exactly answering your question, but maybe this will help:
I have two memorized Payees as APPLE.COM/BILL with two different amounts and two different memos -- similar to your AAA Insurance needs.  Both memorized payees are Locked.  

I do not have transactions automatically entered into the register.  That may or may not be relevant.

When I download a transactions and the FI sends the Payee as APPLE.COM/BILL, Quicken always seems to associate it to the first such item in the Memorized Payee list regardless of the amount matching or not.  But if I click on the Payee now shown in the register as the proposed transaction to accept, I get both options. It is thus easy to change from the initial proposed line to the second.  

HTH

PhranceQueTara

Thank you for your quick replies, very insightful.
Expanding on Q_Lurker's comments:

Question 4:
Is it possible to use the [Amount] field as a differentiator for auto-assigning categories?

Example 4A:
(scenario being the same as described in Question  2 above)
Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:

       Descriptn  Type  Category    Amount  Lock  Renaming_Rule
MP_1:  AAA_car     Pmt  Insur:Auto  100.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
MP_2:  AAA_home    Pmt  Insur:Home   50.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"

(MP = "memorized payee", ipc = "if payee contains")

THEN:
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27
What category will be assigned to it?
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99
What category will be assigned to it?


Example 4B:
(scenario being the same as described in Question 2 above)
Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:

 
       Descript  Type  Catecory    Amount  Lock  Renaming_Rule
MP_1:  AAA_car   Pmt   Insur:Auto  100.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    96.27  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    95.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
MP_2:  AAA_home  Pmt   Insur:Home   51.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"
                                    49.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"

THEN:
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27
What category will be assigned to it?
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99
What category will be assigned to it?

Chris_QPW

PhranceQueTara said:

Thank you for your quick replies, very insightful.
Expanding on Q_Lurker's comments:

Question 4:
Is it possible to use the [Amount] field as a differentiator for auto-assigning categories?

No it isn't possible.  Neither the renaming rules or the memorized payee look at the amount to determine what it does.  In the case of the reminders the estimate can look back at a certain number of times it was used and average the amounts, but that is about it.

In the case of the memorize payee with multiple entries, I strongly discourage such use for transactions that you are going to download and match to.

Which entry it is going to match to has changed over the years.  At times it has been "the last used", at other times the "first in the list" or maybe the "last in the list".

If you have multiple entries what you get will always be "questionable".

The reason for multiple entries is for manual entry.  If you are entering a payee manually then it you can select between those in the list that comes up.

q_lurker

In the case of the memorize payee with multiple entries, I strongly discourage such use for transactions that you are going to download and match to.

That is where @Chris_QPW and I took different directions.  I cited the use of multiple entries for a single memorized payee and indicated it worked for me.  But I also believe he is automatically having transactions entered into the register; I am not.

I have no expectation that the download will automatically match up to the correct memorized payee (I agree with Chris that such matching is hit and miss).  But I find it easy to select the correct memorized line when presented the chance which is why I make limited use of the ability.    

Chris_QPW

Yes I agree with @q_lurker if you are going to manually enter the transactions before the download then it will all fall into place and using multiple payee entries makes sense.

But he is correct I was talking about Quicken doing that all automatically just using reminders, renaming rules, and memorized payees, with downloaded transactions.  That isn't possible.

Note there have been suggestions (Idea threads that you can vote) on for controlling the renaming rules based on the account they are in, which may or may not apply here and yes on the amounts.  If that feature was introduced than maybe this would be possible to do automatically, but not as it currently exists.

Chris_QPW

Let me start by saying that the Memorized Payee list gets used in two contexts (three if you count the check writing dialog).

The main reason it is called the memorized payee list is that the very first function it had (and still has) is for when you are manually entering a transaction.  As you type in the payee if it matches one of the memorized payees in that list it will fill in the other fields like the category and amount.

The second context is when downloading transactions if a memorized payee is matched it will pick up fields like the category and tags, but any information it the downloaded fields like the amount will override what is in the memorized payee entry.

On #1
Entering 0.00 in the amount of the memorized payee is sort of a special case.  When entering a transaction from using a payee from the list that has 0.00 Quicken treats that as "leave the amount blank".  When downloading this of course doesn't apply since there is an amount downloaded, which gets used.

On #2
Unfortunately there isn't any such option in Quicken.  About the closest you can come to this is using the "estimate" option on a reminder for a given bill.  Note that the estimate option only works if you haven't tied a reminder to an online bill.

On #3
'c" in the cleared status means that the transaction has cleared the financial institution.  This is why all downloaded transactions are marked with a 'c', because clearly if you are downloading them then they have cleared the financial institution.  So why have it in the memorized payee entry?  I would have to believe it is for the person that is entering transactions manually from a financial institution statement.  In that case again clearly they have cleared the financial institution, and this would save the step of manually change the status.  On the other hand if you are doing it "old school" then you would be entering the transactions as they occur and have yet to clear the financial institution, and you would want it to be blank to show it hasn't cleared yet.

And you didn't ask, but I will point out that this status changes to 'R"/reconciled when you reconcile the transaction with what is on the financial institution, which is to say you have found that your Quicken account is in agreement with the what the financial institution has.

q_lurker

Question 2:  Not exactly answering your question, but maybe this will help:
I have two memorized Payees as APPLE.COM/BILL with two different amounts and two different memos -- similar to your AAA Insurance needs.  Both memorized payees are Locked.  

I do not have transactions automatically entered into the register.  That may or may not be relevant.

When I download a transactions and the FI sends the Payee as APPLE.COM/BILL, Quicken always seems to associate it to the first such item in the Memorized Payee list regardless of the amount matching or not.  But if I click on the Payee now shown in the register as the proposed transaction to accept, I get both options. It is thus easy to change from the initial proposed line to the second.  

HTH

PhranceQueTara

Thank you for your quick reply, very insightful.

Question 4:
Is it possible to use the [Amount] field as a differentiator for auto-assigning categories?

Example 4A:
(scenario being the same as described in Question  2 above)
Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:

       Descript  Type  Catecory    Amount  Lock  RenamingRule
MP_1:  AAA_car   Pmt   Insur:Auto  100.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    96.27  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    95.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
MP_2:  AAA_home  Pmt   Insur:Home   51.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"
                                    49.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"</code>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Descriptn&nbsp; Type&nbsp; Category&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Amount&nbsp; Lock&nbsp; Renaming_Rule<br>MP_1:&nbsp; AAA_car&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pmt&nbsp; Insur:Auto&nbsp; 100.00&nbsp; [x]&nbsp;&nbsp; ipc: "AAA INSUR"<br>MP_2:&nbsp; AAA_home&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pmt&nbsp; Insur:Home&nbsp;&nbsp; 50.00&nbsp; [x]&nbsp;&nbsp; ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"</pre><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>Then:</b></div><div>A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27&nbsp; <br></div><div>What category will be assigned to it?</div><div>A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99&nbsp; <br></div><div>What category will be assigned to it?</div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div>Example 4B: <br>(scenario being the same as described in Question 2 above)<br>Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:<br><pre class="CodeBlock"><code>

Then:

A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27  What category will be assigned to it?
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99  What category will be assigned to it?

PhranceQueTara

Thank you for your quick replies, very insightful.
Expanding on Q_Lurker's comments:

Question 4:
Is it possible to use the [Amount] field as a differentiator for auto-assigning categories?

Example 4A:
(scenario being the same as described in Question  2 above)
Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:

       Descriptn  Type  Category    Amount  Lock  Renaming_Rule
MP_1:  AAA_car     Pmt  Insur:Auto  100.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
MP_2:  AAA_home    Pmt  Insur:Home   50.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"

(MP = "memorized payee", ipc = "if payee contains")

THEN:
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27
What category will be assigned to it?
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99
What category will be assigned to it?


Example 4B:
(scenario being the same as described in Question 2 above)
Setting up the 2 following memorized payees:

 
       Descript  Type  Catecory    Amount  Lock  Renaming_Rule
MP_1:  AAA_car   Pmt   Insur:Auto  100.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    96.27  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
                                    95.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSUR"
MP_2:  AAA_home  Pmt   Insur:Home   51.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"
                                    49.00  [x]   ipc: "AAA INSURANCE"

THEN:
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $50.27
What category will be assigned to it?
A new "AAA INSURANCE" transaction is downloaded with amount $99.99
What category will be assigned to it?

Chris_QPW

PhranceQueTara said:

Thank you for your quick replies, very insightful.
Expanding on Q_Lurker's comments:

Question 4:
Is it possible to use the [Amount] field as a differentiator for auto-assigning categories?

No it isn't possible.  Neither the renaming rules or the memorized payee look at the amount to determine what it does.  In the case of the reminders the estimate can look back at a certain number of times it was used and average the amounts, but that is about it.

In the case of the memorize payee with multiple entries, I strongly discourage such use for transactions that you are going to download and match to.

Which entry it is going to match to has changed over the years.  At times it has been "the last used", at other times the "first in the list" or maybe the "last in the list".

If you have multiple entries what you get will always be "questionable".

The reason for multiple entries is for manual entry.  If you are entering a payee manually then it you can select between those in the list that comes up.

q_lurker

In the case of the memorize payee with multiple entries, I strongly discourage such use for transactions that you are going to download and match to.

That is where @Chris_QPW and I took different directions.  I cited the use of multiple entries for a single memorized payee and indicated it worked for me.  But I also believe he is automatically having transactions entered into the register; I am not.

I have no expectation that the download will automatically match up to the correct memorized payee (I agree with Chris that such matching is hit and miss).  But I find it easy to select the correct memorized line when presented the chance which is why I make limited use of the ability.    

Chris_QPW

Yes I agree with @q_lurker if you are going to manually enter the transactions before the download then it will all fall into place and using multiple payee entries makes sense.

But he is correct I was talking about Quicken doing that all automatically just using reminders, renaming rules, and memorized payees, with downloaded transactions.  That isn't possible.

Note there have been suggestions (Idea threads that you can vote) on for controlling the renaming rules based on the account they are in, which may or may not apply here and yes on the amounts.  If that feature was introduced than maybe this would be possible to do automatically, but not as it currently exists.