Rounding Error: Closing Price multiplied by Number of Shares

artg
artg Member ✭✭✭
Good morning Q Community.  

Before we begin I'm fully aware that I can make my manufactured "problem" go away by simply eliminating cents in my Portfolio view.

Okay, this morning I performed my One Step Update and downloaded quotes for my portfolio. One of my mutual funds is off by a single penny.  When I use a calculator and round to the second decimal point (cents) I get $xxxx.50. When I input the share price into MS Excel I get $xxxx.50. (I set up the Excel formula to round to the second decimal point.) Q displays a value of $xxxx.49.  Of course, my online brokerage account shows $xxxx.50.

My brokerage, Q, and Excel show the exact same mutual fund share quantity. 

I fully understand this issue is as close to meaningless as meaningless gets.  The various lots in this mutual fund date back almost 13 years.

This issue is nothing more than an annoyance (to me.)  Has anyone figured out an easy fix?  if there is no easy fix that's certainly alright as tomorrow morning (based on today's closing price) the problem likely goes away.

Comments

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I assume the amount that is off is the market value. Of course this is the share price * number of shares. I suspect that the number of shares in Quicken is a little different than what your brokerage is reporting. This can happen over time, especially when you have reinvested dividends.

    Go to the account and click on Holdings. If you are running a current version of Quicken, it should show the share quantity with 6 decimal places. Brokers generally download 3 or 4 decimal places, sometimes rounding and sometimes truncating.

    Does the number of shares exactly match what the broker is reporting? If not, you can edit a recent transaction to adjust the share count slightly, letting Quicken recalculate the share price, and this should resolve your problem.

    If not please let us know the actual share price, quantity, and market value in Quicken along with the market value the broker is reporting.
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  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    Good morning @Jim_Harman
    The number of shares in Q exactly match the number of shares in my brokerage account. When I click on the "Holdings" for the account it shows my six mutual funds.  Five of the six funds display share quantities to the third decimal place and the sixth fund displays a share quantity to the second decimal place. 

    Speaking of truncating, this happened in another one of my accounts a couple of months ago.  Q displayed a market value of $xxxx.49 while the brokerage and my Excel displayed $xxxx.50.  When I did the arithmetic on a calculator I got $xxxx.495 which should "round" to $xxxx.50. 

    The exact same math happened this morning which drove me to post this discussion.  Therefore, I'm also wondering if this could simply be a Q anomaly with truncating $.495 to $.49?

    Thanks again Jim and oh by the way, I got the idea of eliminating cents in the Portfolio view from a posting you did (on this subject) in 2020.

     
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8
    Can you please tell us what 2 numbers with 2 or 3 decimal places are multiplied to get xxxx.495 exactly?

    I tried a purchase of 10000.1 shares at 4.95 and the portfolio view correctly rounds 49,500.495 to 49,500.50.

    Also 100.1 shares at 4.95 correctly rounds to 495.50
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  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Jim_Harman

    Certainly Jim.

    The first number is last nights market closing share price.  In the case of this particular mutual fund it was $57.53.

    The second number was the number of shares I own (in the brokerage account.) In this case the fractional share amount was .589. 

    When I multiply the closing price by the number of shares I own I get $xx,177.49517.  (When I went to school we rounded .49517 to .50, hence the reason for this posting this morning.)

    I have been purchasing (dollar cost averaging) shares of this fund as well as reinvesting every penny of distributions for as long as I've owned this fund, which I believe has been about 13 years.  Therefore I have many, many lots dating back to 2008.

    By the way, I use Quicken Premier (Windows) and I have Release 33.24.

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8
    Sorry, not enough info, I can't duplicate your problem. Please post the actual numbers, post made-up numbers that demonstrate the problem, or take this up with Quicken support.

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  • UKR
    UKR SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    When entering investment transactions, always enter number of shares, commission and market value. Let Quicken calculate the price per share to as many decimal places as it can. This hides any rounding errors in the price per share and your register will match where it is important: market value and number of shares.
  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Jim_Harman

    Okay Jim, try this please:

    Closing price per share ($): 57.53

    Number of shares owned: 537.589

    Fund Value ($): 30,927.49517

    Posted Market Value in Quicken ($): 30,927.49

    Value in MS Excel (using rounding function) ($): 30,927.50

    Hopefully that will help you help me...if possible.  Thank you.

    @UKR

    Thank you.  For this particular mutual fund I did not enter transactions.  Over the past 13 years transactions were downloaded using the One Step Update.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    When I Add Shares for 0.589 shares at a price of 57.53 (0.589 * 57.53 = 33.88517), Quicken shows the value as 33.89.  It rounded up just as it should. 

    The 'complaint' you register usually seems to go the other way.  There are select financial institutions out there that habitually truncate (would show 33.88 above) and their clients seem to want Quicken to truncate similarly. 

    I suspect somewhere along the line you have picked up some additional fractional share more precise than the '3 after the decimal'.  
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I enter a Buy of 537.589 shares at $57.53 Quicken shows the correctly rounded value of 30927.50.

    I suspect that somewhere in your data there is a tiny difference in your share count, perhaps in the 7th decimal place, so it does not show in any of the reporting. I suggest you enter an Add transaction of .000001 share or adjust an earlier transaction up by that number of shares, keeping the total dollar amount the same, and see if that fixes it.

    Even if all your transactions have been downloaded, this sort of issue can creep in if there have been share class conversions, splits, spin-offs, acquisitions, and the like.
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  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @q_lurker
    Thank you q.  Your answer basically sounds like I simply need to live with "my penny off" and just wait until tomorrow morning when I update with this evenings market closing prices.

    Furthermore, please correct me if I'm wrong but I interpret what you're saying as there's nothing wrong with Q rounding function.

      
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nothing wrong that I am aware of.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quicken's rounding seems to work correctly for me also.
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  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @Jim_Harman

    Jim, thank you.  You stated: "Even if all your transactions have been downloaded, this sort of issue can creep in if there have been share class conversions, splits, spin-offs, acquisitions, and the like."

    Well, the mutual fund is USSPX which is USAA S&P 500 Member Shares.  About a year ago the fund was USPRX which is USAA S&P 500 Reward Shares.  What happened a year ago was that I moved my account from USAA (Victory Capital) to Charles Schwab.  The Reward Shares were (and are) proprietary to USAA (Victory Capital) account holders.  Therefore, I lost the benefit of Reward shares and that particular fund was converted to Member shares. 

    I remember the conversion was off by maybe two or three cents, literally pennies.  I can't remember if I lost or gained those pennies. But the bottom line is I now have a feeling that when I underwent a "share class conversion" I may have lost something at the fifth, sixth or seventh decimal point.

    Maybe we need to end this where I started this morning with your idea from last year...do not display cents in Portfolio view.   :)

  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe we need to end this where I started this morning with your idea from last year...do not display cents in Portfolio view.   
    For me, the choice is to display the pennies but don't fret over them.

  • artg
    artg Member ✭✭✭
    @q_lurker

    Thank you q.  Your idea is even better.
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