Downloads to 401k show as BoughtX, but convert to Bought when Accept

QknUser22

Transaction downloads into my 401k show as BoughtX when downloaded. This is expected. However, when I accept the transactions they are entered into the register as Bought (not BoughtX) and I need to manually change each transaction back to BoughtX and set the Xfer Acct. This is a cumbersome process. For another older 401k account, the transactions are created as BoughtX when accepted and the Xfer Acct is automatically set to the 401k account. This works great. Both 401k accounts are in Fidelity, and download from the same login. One works as expected, and one requires a lot of manual updates. Why is Quicken changing from BoughtX to Bought when accepting transactions for the new 401k account? How can I fix this?

Frankx

Hi @QknUser22

In the "older 401k account" where similar transactions "works great" is the transfer account the same account that these BoughtX transactions are in, or is it another Quicken account?  Usually "BoughtX" type transactions are those where another different Quicken account is involved, and Quicken doesn't know which account that is, therefore the user needs to input that information.

Get back to me and we'll go from there.

Frankx

QknUser22

Yes, the transfer account is the same account.

Frankx

Hi @QknUser22,

So, I think I should have been clearer in my initial post above.  I probably should have said that the "BoughtX" type of transaction in Quicken should only be used where the funds for the "Buy" or "Bought" transaction came from another Quicken account (i.e. not the same Quicken account that they entry is being made in, but some other Quicken account). 

If - on the other hand - a transaction is being funded from funds in the account into which the downloaded transactions are being posted, then the correct transaction is a "Bought" transaction; not a "BoughtX" transaction.  And if this downloaded transaction is showing a "BoughtX" type, that is an error on the part of the financial institution sending the download to your Quicken file.  As such, the only recourse you have is to make sure that the "BoughtX" is changed to a "Bought" when you accept the transaction into Quicken.

If I misunderstood anything, or if you still have questions, please get back to me.

Frankx

q_lurker

At the risk of adding confusion, I see three scenarios:

1. Cash is transferred into the Quicken 401k account (usually from a paycheck-type transaction).  That cash is used periodically to buy shares or units of various investments.  A BOUGHT action is appropriate.
2. Cash for the purchase of the shares or units of the investments acquired in one 401k account comes from a different account.  A BOUGHTX transaction is appropriate with the transfer account identified as the different account.  Through the BOUGHTX transaction, an associated XOut transaction will be generated in the different account decreasing that account's cash balance.
3. Cash for the purchase of the shares or units of the investments acquired in one 401k account is unaccounted for - it does not come from any account in Quicken.  For many of us, that would be an unusual situation.  In that case, a BOUGHTX transaction that identifies the transfer account as the account getting the transaction would seem reasonable.  Such a BOUGHTX transaction does not decrease the cash in the reference account or in any other account.  Essentially, the cash for the purchase comes out of thin air.

It would seem that @QknUser22 is in that third category.  

I don't know why one Fidelity account would behave one way and a different account differently.  Same owner (employee) for both accounts?  Maybe one is the employee contribution and the other is the employer contribution?  

QknUser22

Yes, it is the third category -- you stated it very concisely. I'm not going to both setting up the whole paycheck thing in Quicken, because in my opinion, it is very cumbersome. I don't want to have to adjust it. The cash for 401k investments obviously comes from my paycheck, but I just download the net paycheck into Quicken, and separately download the shares purchased in the 401k with the deduction from the paycheck. I don't want to decrease the case value in the 401k account (it should remain at zero), when I download the BoughtX transactions. By the way, both accounts are with Fidelity (the one that automatically sets the Xfer Acct, and the one that doesn't). The one that used to work doesn't get new allocations though. I'm guessing Quicken "broke" this behavior at some point, which was working quite well for me. What's the harm in setting the Xfer Acct to the same account if no other account is specified?

q_lurker

What's the harm in setting the Xfer Acct to the same account if no other account is specified?

"Harm" is probably a key word and an applicable word.  My answer:  None.  But I tend to the detail-oriented side of some spectrum and I want to know where money came from and where it went.  Maybe I transfer that upon too many other Quicken users.  When  I was employed, I wanted to know fully what the employer was providing - so my Quicken paycheck transactions included as much minutiae as possible. 

Other than copying prior transactions, I can't imagine any basis for Quicken guessing what account to fill in as the Xfer account.  It certainly would not be in the info from Fidelity.  Perhaps while it worked for you, it did not work right for other users.  Fixing their issue broke your success(?) -- pure hypothesis.    

QknUser22

It would be nice if Quicken would actually define the expected behavior. The correct behavior may be subjective from a user perspective, but the fact remains that the behavior is inconsistent between two existing accounts being downloaded from the same place, using the same credentials. The inconsistency should be explained. It works as I expect it to in one account, and not the other. Why? Why doesn't Quicken give me the ability to make the behavior consistent?

As you elude to above, why doesn't Quicken just remember what I did the last time I downloaded the same transaction for the same shares, and use it to set the defaults?

Jim_Harman

I see a similar situation with 401(k) downloads from T Rowe Price. They sell shares of my holdings to cover the quarterly account fee. These are listed as as SoldX in the downloaded transactions list with the TRP account as the transfer destination, but as soon as I accept them, they change to Sold with the cash going to the account.

This causes a positive cash balance in the account equal to the amount of the fee. I am happy with this because I then enter a manual MiscExp to record the fee.

I don't remember for sure, but I think this behavior is new since TRP got transaction downloads working again in September.

q_lurker

@QknUser22 -- Curious and looking for differences.  For your two 401k accounts - older and newer.  Do the account details for both match up?  Particularly as to Account Type being "401k or 403b"  

@Jim_Harman

... but as soon as I accept them, they change to Sold with the cash going to the account.

As you accept them, do you fill in a transfer account, or do you accept them with the transfer account blank?  (Does the proposed line entry even show the transfer account field?)

Jim_Harman

I believe this is what happens:

-- I select the transaction in the downloaded transaction list. This puts an editable SoldX transaction in the transaction list with the transfer account the same as the active account. I do not edit this transaction in any way.

-- I click on Accept in the downloaded transaction list.

-- The transaction changes to Sold, with "To this account's cash balance" selected and the cash in the account.

Looking at the formatted OFX log for one of these transactions,  here is what it has:

                    <SELLMF>

                        <INVSELL>

                            <INVTRAN>

                                <FITID>202109302021093022551A1P

                                <DTTRADE>20210930120000

                                <MEMO>FEES

                            </INVTRAN>

                            <SECID>

                                <UNIQUEID>693390700

                                <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP

                            </SECID>

                            <UNITS>0.7432

                            <UNITPRICE>10.36

                            <TOTAL>7.7

                            <SUBACCTSEC>CASH

                            <SUBACCTFUND>CASH

                            <INV401KSOURCE>PRETAX</INV401KSOURCE>

                        </INVSELL>

                        <SELLTYPE>SELL

                    </SELLMF>

This looks like a straightforward Sold transaction; I don't see anything that would mark it as a SoldX. This is certainly odd. I suppose I could restore a backup and try downloading these transactions again to see exactly what happens, but I have had trouble with T Rowe Price downloads recently and I am reluctant to try that.

Jim_Harman

OK, I bit the bullet and re-downloaded, and my memory was correct.

The first image is before accepting.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this is after accepting. The second line in the transaction list is the next portion of the fee ready to be accepted.

QknUser22

@q_lurker there is no difference in account type. Both 401k. Description of soldx by @Jim_Harman is similar to what I see with boughtx.

BK

All,

I'd like to share my experience.  I have two Schwab brokerage accounts under the same user ID.  I own Apple in each account.  When the reinvested dividends download, one account is correctly categorized as ReinvDiv and the other is a Cash Deposit (yes, both are setup to reinvest dividends)!  Has been like this for years where I have to manually correct it.  I even wait a few days before accepting them in case a secondary corresponding transaction downloads to revise it.  Everything is correct online, the issue is in the download data.  And I have reviewed the data in the download file and verified that the issue is not Quicken - rather Schwab is using two different rules when they create their download file.  I contacted them and they "clearly" agreed that it is their issue and further said that my two accounts are on two different systems on their end where the download rules are different.  Go figure!  I just live with it.

Jim_Harman

Is one a brokerage account and the other a 401(k) or IRA? FIs often have different platforms for different account types.

BK

Both are brokerage.  I created the second one so that my teenager can learn about investing.

There are even third & forth strange inconsistent behaviors with a custodial brokerage account at Schwab and my 401(k) elsewhere which is a longer story (timing issue) - but those two eventually get corrected if I give it couple of days before accepting the transactions.

Learning how to make Quicken work well given the FIs issues and inconsistencies truly becomes an experience.  And I am learning from the best of you superusers.

Hopeless_Diamond

Bringing this discussion back up because I have the exact same problem when importing my 401(k) transactions. There was no resolution to this that I saw.

I do not break out my paycheck, only deal with net pay, etc. The brokerage for the 401(k) is not set up for direct downloads and only provides downloadable info on a quarterly basis, at least it is in Quicken format.

When the transactions are shown in the acceptance pane, they all show as BoughtX, but when accepted, the convert to Bought and are funded from the cash balance, of which there is none. I then have to go back through each individual transaction and change the source of the cash from "This Accounts Cash Balance" to using this same account (which makes no sense to me). This is extremely cumbersome, currently 10 transactions per week times ~12 weeks per quarter.

My wife had worked for the same company and had the same 401(k). When I downloaded her account info, it always stayed with the BoughtX. I don't think it's a function of the Brokerage being used, it seems to be buried somewhere in Quicken.

I've looked for a way to bulk change the transactions but have had no luck. I have not found any differences between how the accounts in Quicken were setup. I've been using Quicken for over 30 years now and this is one of my biggest frustrations.

Any insight would be most appreciated.