Why do closed accounts appear when I try to do a transfer?

LongTimeQuicken17

I want to add a transfer from one account to another.
The list of possible accounts includes ones which have been closed.
I waste time having to scroll through these to get to the account that I want.
I have many old accounts that should no longer appear like prior employer 401Ks.
Seems very stupid.

UKR

Are these accounts truly "marked closed" in Quicken (Tools / Manage Hidden Accounts)?

To avoid confusing closed accounts appearing in selection lists, I have renamed my account registers so that the name begins with a tilde "~", e.g., "~XYZ Checking (old)". This sorts the names to the bottom of selection lists after A...Z,a...z and acts as an eye catcher.

I'm guessing that the names remain available, just in case you need to work within these accounts and/or correct old transactions with transfers to/from these accounts.

LongTimeQuicken17

Tools/Manage Hidden Accounts shows these accounts as closed.
But they still appear in the list of accounts that I can transfer to.
I will, however, look into your idea of renaming old accounts so that they go to the end of the list.
Would still like to know why these closed accounts appear.

UKR

LongTimeQuicken17 said:

Tools/Manage Hidden Accounts shows these accounts as closed.
But they still appear in the list of accounts that I can transfer to.
I will, however, look into your idea of renaming old accounts so that they go to the end of the list.
Would still like to know why these closed accounts appear.

See the last sentence of my earlier reply.
However, an "official response" from a moderator or support person would be nice ...

[Deleted User]

@longtimequicken17 - another possible explanation is that you have a very old data file created before the option to not show closed accounts in transfer list.  It could be that this option was added later, after your data files was created, but not retroactive.  Meaning new data files had this feature after the programming change was put into place. 

Chris_QPW

The answer has always been that you aren't looking at an "account list", you are looking at a category/transfer list.  They aren't the same.

This has been talked about for decades and nothing has ever changed.
And on top this there are several bugs/inconsistencies.

Pull up the account list (Ctrl+A) and toggle the show hidden accounts checkbox and you will see it does exactly what one would expect.

Pull up the category list (Ctrl+C) and select Transfers.
You will now see all the accounts in square brackets (as in the transfers).

There is a difference between categories, accounts, and transfers.  They aren't the same.
So, hiding an account isn't the same as saying hide this transfer account.

The confusion/problems stem from the fact that Quicken Windows merges the transfer and categories into the same field/list.

You can see this in the reports.  Go to the customizing the categories and you will find the transfers/accounts.

You will notice that in the category list that the Hide checkbox is disabled for transfers.
In my opinion this is exactly where it really should be selected for hiding transfers, but they have never changed it to that.

To make things worse there are these inconsistencies/bugs.

• If you have an older data file and hide an account, it will still show up in the category list/transfers.

• If you have a newer data file and hide an account, it will not show up in the category list/transfers even if you select to show the hidden categories.
• In the account lists like in the reports there is this option "Show (hidden accounts)".  It is mislabeled, it is really "Show (separate accounts)".

[Deleted User]

@chris_QPW - the inconsistencies are confusing because in my transfer list, I can't the get closed accounts to show, no matter what I do, which is ok because I wouldn't want them to.  I have learned that I can still transfer to them if I type in the account name exactly.

LongTimeQuicken17

Thank you for your detailed answer.
They clearly have no intent to fix this on Windows. I have fought with this for years and decided today to see if there was something better that I could do as I clean up my accounts and close more of the old ones.
I will do some renaming to put my active accounts at the top of the list so that I can more easily do transfers.
Not sure if I should say that your response 'answers' the question though. It might be nice to see if a moderator will respond and explain why this mess persists.

Chris_QPW

LongTimeQuicken17 said:

Not sure if I should say that your response 'answers' the question though. It might be nice to see if a moderator will respond and explain why this mess persists.

The moderators aren't really the spokespersons for Quicken Inc, and certainly not for explaining why the development grow does this or that.  As such, you will almost never find such an explanation posted in these forums.  Quicken Inc almost always leaves it up to the users to make guesses as to why they did this or that.

Damian said:

@chris_QPW - the inconsistencies are confusing because in my transfer list, I can't the get closed accounts to show, no matter what I do, which is ok because I wouldn't want them to.  I have learned that I can still transfer to them if I type in the account name exactly.

My tests weren't exhaustive, I never use close account, but I will test it and report back.  I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with an account being closed.   When you close an account it forces "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists".  I believe that this is really what toggles the different behavior.  But like I pointed out there are inconsistencies in how it works in old/new data files.

I might be mistaken that my "new file" is "new enough" or there might be something else I'm missing that triggers it.  But I pretty much guarantee that in either case it behaves wrong.
To prove that, go to a transaction in a register and select the category, expand the list and then select Transfers.  See if the closed account shows or not.  Now toggle the "show hidden categories".

It isn't enough to an account in the transfers, to be correct they also have to has a way to unhide it.

[Deleted User]

@chris_qpw - You are right about  "Hide in Transaction Entry Lists" controlling whether an account shows up in the transfer list.  I marked that option in an active account and now it doesn't show in the transfer list.  And yes, when you close an account, it forces that option and you can't change it.

Chris_QPW

Test in my main data file, closed both "Z_" accounts:


Brand new data file (I guess my other "new file" isn't considered "new" anymore):
Wow, this I didn't expect!


The setup is three accounts.  Checking, Savings, and Closed Account.
Savings has "Hide in transaction entry lists" selected, which is also selected in "Closed Account" since it is forced on with the closing of the account.

Notice as described in my other post this is what makes it not show up in the list.
But the real surprise here is that they removed the "Show hidden categories" in new data files.
So, that whole functionality is gone.  I guess that is one way to force the behavior of a closed account to "be right", but of course drops a useful function of being able to see/use your hidden categories.
Note this option is missing from all the sections:

[Deleted User]

@chris_qpw - I think it's still there.  What I have noticed is that if you don't have any hidden categories, it doesn't show.  But if you have hidden categories, then the checkbox shows.

Chris_QPW

Damian said:

@chris_qpw - I think it's still there.  What I have noticed is that if you don't have any hidden categories, it doesn't show.  But if you have hidden categories, then the checkbox shows.

Yes, you are correct.  And the behavior hasn't changed.  You can toggle that on an off and it doesn't affect the hidden transfers.

Note I have edited my original post (removed strike out of second inconsistency/bug) since the behavior is how I stated it originally.