Cash Flow Budget Reports Missing Several FROM Transfers

Kerry Lawson

I am attempting to finalize a Cash Flow Budget and associated reporting but am finding inconsistencies in the way that FROM and TO transfers are reported, more so with the FROM transactions.  Some accounts work as expected and others fail.  I will only focus on one account at the moment in hopes of learning how to repair / fix / resolve the issue which might apply to other accounts.

An example account is an ESCROW account (Account Type: Cash; Account Intent: Spending.  Monthly contributions are made with the mortgage payment let's say $50.00.  This monthly transaction estimate shows up correctly in the TO Escrow Account category.  Ok so far.  Now 5 months later, the mortage Company pay Property Taxes.  A transaction is recorded in the ESCROW account payable to the County Treasurer in the amount of $175.00 and categorized to an Expense category for Property Taxes.  This is a source of additional funds and is not a reduction in expenses associated with the current monthly income.  This source of additional funds should show in the category FROM Escrow Account in amount of $175.00 which is the actual property taxes paid.  When running a normal Income / Expense Budget report, the expense is properly reported in the Property Tax category but this reflects coming out of the current months Income. When running a Cash Flow report (have used both Report Organization types of Cash Flow Basis and Category Group and Transfers: Exclude Self-Transfers), the FROM Escrow Account category shows but the amount is -0-.  If I double-click on the amount field of the report, the Outflows from Checking to Escrow are properly shown.  If I open the Escrow Account and select cash flow reporting from the account's Gear icon and select Cash Flow report from More Reporting, Inflows and Outflows are properly reported (after adjusting for 'Exclude Self-Transfers'.  My intent of using the Escrow Account is to facilitate reconciliation between the Mortgage Company Escrow Account and to easily reconcile changes to the Escrow Payment because of perceived over or under payments / collections.

Using the latest production release of Quicken Premier for Windows.

Sherlock

The source of additional funds should not show in the category FROM Escrow Account because the payment is not a transfer. 

For these cash flow and budgeting views and reports, I suggest you consider excluding the ESCROW account.  For example, open the report, press Alt + C, select the Accounts tab, choose Selected Accounts, uncheck the ESCROW account, and select OK.

Kerry Lawson

I'm not sure what you expected to happen by excluding the ESCROW account but it simply compounded the issue - now the actual payment of property taxes is excluded from the Cash Flow report.  The only thing that remained correct is that the payment TO Escrow Account for the monthly contribution remained because Transfers was set to 'Exclude Self-Transfers'.  While this is not a transfer between two accounts it is a transfer of funds to pay current month expenses - a funding account not based on the current months income.  Cash Flow is the movement of money and should not be restricted to transfers between accounts.

If Quicken can not assist in the 'movement of money', how should this be handled to accomplish the objectives?

Sherlock

Kerry Lawson said:

I'm not sure what you expected to happen by excluding the ESCROW account but it simply compounded the issue - now the actual payment of property taxes is excluded from the Cash Flow report.  The only thing that remained correct is that the payment TO Escrow Account for the monthly contribution remained because Transfers was set to 'Exclude Self-Transfers'.  While this is not a transfer between two accounts it is a transfer of funds to pay current month expenses - a funding account not based on the current months income.  Cash Flow is the movement of money and should not be restricted to transfers between accounts.

If Quicken can not assist in the 'movement of money', how should this be handled to accomplish the objectives?

Excluding the ESCROW account should correct the budget and cash flow in the views and reports when you include the transfers with the ESCROW account.  Note:  The payments from the ESCROW account should not be included in these view and reports as the transfers to the ESCROW account represent the payment.  When you include include both you are counting the payment/flow twice.

Our preferred approach to monitoring cash flow is by using the Projected Balances view but you may also show reminders in the registers.

Kerry Lawson

Excluding the ESCROW account did not change the FROM Escrow Account.  The only thing that happened was that the actual payment transaction from the Escrow Account did not reflect in the payment categorized as Housing:Property Taxes.  The payments FROM the escrow SHOULD BE included as it represents the actual payment of property taxes.  The account is maintained by a 3rd party and must be reconciled against the ESTIMATED contributions via TO Escrow Account to determine short or overages.  The date actually paid is important to insure that the due dates of the actual property payments are being made.

I use the Projected Balances view heavily to manage short term cash flow but the Cash Flow Budget is a long term planning tool.  Even with a subscription to an expensive tool for tracking and budgeting, it appears that manual effort will be required to manage cash flow from other sources.

Sherlock

Kerry Lawson said:

Excluding the ESCROW account did not change the FROM Escrow Account.  The only thing that happened was that the actual payment transaction from the Escrow Account did not reflect in the payment categorized as Housing:Property Taxes.  The payments FROM the escrow SHOULD BE included as it represents the actual payment of property taxes.  The account is maintained by a 3rd party and must be reconciled against the ESTIMATED contributions via TO Escrow Account to determine short or overages.  The date actually paid is important to insure that the due dates of the actual property payments are being made.

I use the Projected Balances view heavily to manage short term cash flow but the Cash Flow Budget is a long term planning tool.  Even with a subscription to an expensive tool for tracking and budgeting, it appears that manual effort will be required to manage cash flow from other sources.

If you want to include the payments from the ESCROW account in a report, I suggest you include the ESCROW account and not include the transfers between the ESCROW account and the other accounts included in the report.

It appears you are attempting to use one report to analyze two incongruent things.  I suggest you consider using two reports.

Kerry Lawson

I don't believe these are incongruent things.  The monthly contribution is a deposit in a spending account and semi-annually (or annually), the actual payment is made from that account.  If the funds were transferred to checking and then I processed the payment, the transfer would show without a problem. In my case, payment is made directly by the 3rd party and the source of funds has already been accounted for and should not be counted against the current Income/Expense budget. It appears that Quicken had some thoughts on this as the Account Intent drop-down on Account creation makes note as to 'What accounts are considered in certain Cash Flow features'.

Thank you for your comments but I see this is going nowhere.

Sherlock

Kerry Lawson said:

I don't believe these are incongruent things.  The monthly contribution is a deposit in a spending account and semi-annually (or annually), the actual payment is made from that account.  If the funds were transferred to checking and then I processed the payment, the transfer would show without a problem. In my case, payment is made directly by the 3rd party and the source of funds has already been accounted for and should not be counted against the current Income/Expense budget. It appears that Quicken had some thoughts on this as the Account Intent drop-down on Account creation makes note as to 'What accounts are considered in certain Cash Flow features'.

Thank you for your comments but I see this is going nowhere.

The actual budgeted flow is to the ESCROW account.  If you also budget the payment, you are counting the amount of payment twice.  Were you to transfer the funds back to checking, the cash flow would be balanced to and from the ESCROW account. 

Kerry Lawson

You are partially correct.  The budgeted flow is to the ESCROW account - which is an estimate, a contribution to a fund to be used later; a second 'checking or savings account'  I can't transfer the funds back to checking as I'm not responsible for the final payment to the county treasurer.  So this function is a transfer of previously deposited funds to an expense category.  If this isn't processed as a transfer then the actual budgeted flow is against Cash Income and the expense recording appears against the Cash Income balance because it fails to recognize that the funds have already been collected.

Thank you

Sherlock

Kerry Lawson said:

You are partially correct.  The budgeted flow is to the ESCROW account - which is an estimate, a contribution to a fund to be used later; a second 'checking or savings account'  I can't transfer the funds back to checking as I'm not responsible for the final payment to the county treasurer.  So this function is a transfer of previously deposited funds to an expense category.  If this isn't processed as a transfer then the actual budgeted flow is against Cash Income and the expense recording appears against the Cash Income balance because it fails to recognize that the funds have already been collected.

Thank you

I did not say you should transfer the funds back from the ESCROW account.   You stated if the funds were transferred to checking and then I processed the payment, the transfer would show without a problem.  I explained why that is not correct and why it is not appropriate to attempt to budget the transfer and the payment in the same report.