Amount invested Year to Date/ ROI % Year to Date

Gary R

I re-visited this topic again and here is what I discovered.
I started with my Current Value on 1/1/22 and added all my purchases for the year.  This amount was my Amount invested Year to date and the ROI % Year to date was based on those totals.  Quicken only takes into account purchases, but not sales during the period.
It seems there should be a way for Quicken to fix this in order to get an accurate amount.  Maybe I'm just expecting too much from Intuit, but for the yearly subscription, they should be able to come up with something better than this.

Jim_Harman

The problems with Quicken's ROI (%) calculations are a longstanding issue.

That is why I have suggested to you more than once to you that you focus on Avg Annual Return (%) columns in the Portfolio views and/or the Investing Performance report rather than the Portfolio view ROI (%) columns.

Both of these are annualized percentages, so for periods of less than one year like YTD, they assume that the period performance will continue for a full year.

To get a more reasonable YTD figure from the Avg Annual Return (%) YTD, you can set the As of date to 12/31. For the IPR, set the date range to Yearly and Current Year rather than YTD. With those settings, the assumption is that the performance will be flat for the rest of the year. 

Please see this discussion for more information https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7864889/account-level-amount-invested-and-roi-are-calculated-incorrectly-when-a-security-is-sold

 BTW Quicken is no longer owned by Intuit, it is the separate company Quicken Inc.

Gary R

Jim---Do you use the Avg Annual Return (%) column for 1 year or the YTD in the portfolio view

Jim_Harman

I use the 1 year column.

Gary R

OK---That looks much better---When I used the Average Annual Return YTD, it was almost double the loss % from your recommendation of 1 year column.
(It went from 21% to 11% loss using the one year column)

Jim_Harman

Note that when you use the 1 year column the analysis period starts 1 year ago, not Jan 1st.

If you set the As of date in the Portfolio view to 12/31/22, the 1 year and YTD numbers will both start on Jan 1 and should be the same.

Gary R

When I set the date to 12/31/22 the loss went from 9.5 to 14%.  It was bad enough at 9.5---haha
Here's the thing----I know my Return YTD and my starting value of 1/1/22.  If I simply just use those numbers my YTD loss % is 12%-------I'm right in the middle of those two figures above.

Jim_Harman

If I look at a Vanguard 500 fund (VFIAX) with no transactions in Quicken except for dividends received in cash in the Investing Performance Report, I get
-11.89%  with the date range set to   Last 12 months
-16.84%                                            Yearly/Current year

So you are doing better (or less badly) than that.

Morningstar total returns for that fund are -12./23 and -16.80% respectively for the same periods. The slight differences may be due to dividends reinvested vs received in cash.

Gary R

Thanks Jim for your feedback.  Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend

q_lurker

Jim_Harman said:

The problems with Quicken's ROI (%) calculations are a longstanding issue. ... 

Gary R said:

... Quicken only takes into account purchases, but not sales during the period.
It seems there should be a way for Quicken to fix this in order to get an accurate amount.  ...

As I have pointed out in many discussions over the years, this is not a matter of Quicken using the wrong Amount Invested.  This is a long-standing issue where Quicken is presenting a broader or different security performance than users are expecting (or wanting).  Broadly speaking, Quicken is saying over the defined period, you invested so much in this company and your got some amount in return.  That you sold some shares during the period does not mean you did not make the investment and get some return.  Users, on the other hand are saying I invested so much in these shares I currently own of the company.  Compute my performance for only those shares.  I want to know the performance of the shares I own, not the performance of the shares I sold.  Neither number is right or wrong, they are just different.  Thus, I speculate, Quicken sees nothing to fix.  At least, they have acted as if they have nothing to 'fix' regarding this long-standing misunderstanding.        

Gary R

I have brokerage accounts with Fidelity and Vanguard.  In the portfolio register, I entered just Fidelity accounts with the Average 1 year Annual returns date set at 8/31/2022.  I logged on to Fidelity performance for the 1 year average annual returns and the amount was exactly the same as Quicken.
Then, I entered just Vanguard accounts the same on Quicken and set the date to 8/31/2022.  The rate of return was identical to Vanguard on line.
Then I decided to use 12/31/22 as Jim suggested for both Fidelity ad Vanguard.  Fidelity on line was still very close to Quicken one year % returns.  However, Vanguard was way off when I used 12/31/22 on Quicken.  

Gary R

Also just noticed that my Investment performance report agrees with my Portfolio register for 1 year annual % returns for 8/31/22 and 12/31/22.  The 1 year annual % returns were the same for both dates.  It didn't make any difference to change the date to 12/31/22.  No difference in the % returns.

Jim_Harman

Gary R said:

Also just noticed that my Investment performance report agrees with my Portfolio register for 1 year annual % returns for 8/31/22 and 12/31/22.  The 1 year annual % returns were the same for both dates.  It didn't make any difference to change the date to 12/31/22.  No difference in the % returns.

I can't comment on this because it is not clear what Portfolio view columns you are referring to: Return (%) 1-Year or Avg Annual Return (%) 1-Year. I hate to be a stickler, but please use the exact names of the columns in your posts. I don't like typing the full names either.

The Return (%) 1-year figures do not change when you change the As of date because they are based on downloaded performance data, not your transactions.

The Help on investment performance calculations is difficult to find, but here it is
https://help.quicken.com/display/WIN/Tell+me+about+key+investment+performance+calculations+used+in+Quicken

Gary R

See last column----

Jim_Harman

OK, one other confusing thing about the Portfolio Views: The starting date for the analysis is limited by the date you have set at the Portfolio View gear menu option "Portfolio preferences".

[edited for clarity] If you have set the starting date to 1/1/2022 and the As of date to Today and you choose one of the  1-year columns, the analysis starts at 1/1/22, not today's date a year ago.

This setting is sticky even if you exit and restart Quicken. Because of this, I always make sure to set it back to "Earliest available date" when I am finished with a shorter analysis.

Is this affecting you?

Gary R

It was set to earliest date--I changed it to 1/1/2022 and no change in the one year % annual returns.
I even closed Quicken and opened again and same results.
I think I will just let this go and not worry about it anymore.  Just confusing to me.

Jim_Harman

OK, but one last question before you go away confused - Was the portfolio you are analyzing in existence last year, or was it created sometime this year?

If it was created recently, i.e. the Earliest date was sometime this year, that is when Quicken's analysis will start.

Could you please post 2 screenshots like the one above but both also including the Avg Annual Return (%) YTD column and one with the As of date Today and one with 12/31/22?

Gary R

The portfolio is over 20 years old.  

Gary R

The totals for 9/4/22 and 12/31/22 are -7.95 and -7.07.

Jim_Harman

I give up, how is this consistent with your earlier statements, which I interpret to say that the Avg Annual Return (%) 1-Year numbers are the same for both dates?

Gary R

I used 8/31/2022 for the comparison since Fidelity and Vanguard are showing the one year % as of 8/31/2022
They are the same on 8/31/22

Gary R

Thank you all for your help and replies.  Here is this months SSD newsletter for those interested.  This is a great subscription service for those interested in Dividend growth investing.  They even give you two weeks free without having to put any credit card information --just e-mail.