Still happening!!! Last 7 DAYS - “You have exceeded the maximum number of datasets.”

Rick8
Rick8 Member ✭✭✭✭
Still happening!!!  Last 7 DAYS - Had quicken support fix it 2 days ago.  Now back again and>>>>QUICKEN SUPPORT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO CALL ON WEEKENDS NOW -- Really, this is their problem.  I have to move datasets, because quicken will not download transactions on 2 of 3 computers.  Those being Win 10.  Same exact dataset.

Comments

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    How are you moving your data file between the different computers.
    If you are using Backup and Restore it is a known problem that every restore creates a new dataset, and as such you will run out of the limited amount of them quickly.

    Instead, you should be using something like Windows File Explorer to copy the data file around.
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  • Gopher651
    Gopher651 Member ✭✭
    Just use Google drive set up in mirror mode on each computer. File will be kept on local drive and up to date. I've done for years. Support doesn't recommend streaming active file.
    https://support.google.com/drive/answer/10838124?hl=en
  • Rick8
    Rick8 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Gopher651,   How about a local shared drive on my home network, or a drive USB into modem for a local server?   THX.
  • Rick8
    Rick8 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Chris_QPW,  Tha: nks, have used your site for some of the backups.  About the copying of the QDF data file.  Do you copy all the other 3-4 files with it, or just the QDF file? THX.
  • Gopher651
    Gopher651 Member ✭✭
    > @Rick8 said:
    > Gopher651,   How about a local shared drive on my home network, or a drive USB into modem for a local server?   THX.

    Both of those options you would be streaming and Quicken support does not recommend. Streaming is opening a file over a network versus opening a file on the same computer Quicken is running on. Note if you have a Google account (like with an Android phone), Google gives you 15gb space free so there is no cost to use Google Drive Desktop.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2022
    You only need the *.QDF file, the *.dat files and such are just scrambled log files (they are scramble because they have personal information in them and can only be open from Quicken).  The log files are only really useful for debugging problems.

    Note that Quicken Inc doesn't recommend keeping the QDF that you open in Quicken on any network or cloud folder, but they are fine for moving the QDF file (or backups) between machines.
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  • Gopher651
    Gopher651 Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > .....
    > Note that Quicken Inc doesn't recommend keeping the QDF that you open in Quicken on any network or cloud folder, but they are fine for moving the QDF file (or backups) between machines.

    That is why I recommended Google Drive mirror mode. The files opened would be local on the computer with Quicken.
  • Ps56k2
    Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gopher651 said:
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > .....
    > Note that Quicken Inc doesn't recommend keeping the QDF that you open in Quicken on any network or cloud folder, but they are fine for moving the QDF file (or backups) between machines.

    That is why I recommended Google Drive mirror mode. The files opened would be local on the computer with Quicken.
    You have to be very careful with any kind of auto copy/backup as Quicken opens/closes the QDF file at various times, and does not lock it - so the auto copying product could grab it and prevent Quicken from opening it … bad news.  It is better to NOT include the /quicken/ folder for auto backup, and do it manually. 

    QWin - R54.16 - Win10

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Gopher651 said:
    That is why I recommended Google Drive mirror mode. The files opened would be local on the computer with Quicken.
    Still not recommended by Quicken Inc.

    There are two issues.  One is the reliability of network drives.  They can't ensure 100% reliability even though they do have error correction for most situations.  Quicken was never designed with any error checking/correcting.  As such it needs a local drive that is close to 100% reliable or the data file might get corrupted.

    On the subject of "cloud folders".  All of them work with your data file being on your local drive, so it would seem that they wouldn't be a problem with them.   But the problem comes in with how the "cloud sync programs" determine when to sync.  And I might add this can also apply backup programs.

    This can be broken down into two categories, the ones that use Windows snapshots and the ones that look at locks on the files.  I don't think any of the cloud programs are using Windows snapshots these days, but some backup programs do.  At any given time, the Quicken data file might be in an inconsistent state.  A Windows snapshot records the state of all the files at a point in time, and it is possible for that to be the "wrong point in time".

    The second category is the file lock.  Most cloud programs look at if a file is locked and don't sync it until the lock is removed.  Quicken does lock its data file so one would think that there wouldn't be any problems, but Quicken unlocks the data file and then relocks for somethings it does, like Validate & Repair, doing a backup, ...  This means that the cloud software might race in and lock the data file after Quicken has released it to do the sync, preventing Quicken from getting access to it again until the lock is released.  Quicken isn't programmed for this kind of contention and can throw errors.

    There is also another possibility that one can have the same data file open on both machines.  Locks are local (except on network drives) as such there isn't anything stopping the user from accidentally opening the same data file on two machines, and then when they are closed one is going to override the other's data.  Now that might sound like only an issue where you lose the changes of just from one of the machines, but it can actually get worse.

    People tend to forget that every Quicken data file has a Quicken Cloud dataset on the Quicken server that it syncs data with.  Because the two data files on the two different machines are copies the unique Id that Quicken uses to connect the data file to the Quicken Cloud dataset is the same.  As such both of those data files are syncing to the same Quicken Cloud dataset, and as such if they are in fact different (not an exact copy of what they were the last time they were synced to the Quicken Cloud dataset) then syncing errors can result.

    Some people have said they have success with remembering to turn off the syncing while using Quicken, and then turn it on afterwards, but forgetting (turn off/turn on) might make for a bad day.

    Note using a simple command script might be a good way to do the copies in and out of the cloud folder.
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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2022
    Ps56k2 said:
    Gopher651 said:
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > .....
    > Note that Quicken Inc doesn't recommend keeping the QDF that you open in Quicken on any network or cloud folder, but they are fine for moving the QDF file (or backups) between machines.

    That is why I recommended Google Drive mirror mode. The files opened would be local on the computer with Quicken.
    You have to be very careful with any kind of auto copy/backup as Quicken opens/closes the QDF file at various times, and does not lock it - so the auto copying product could grab it and prevent Quicken from opening it … bad news.  It is better to NOT include the /quicken/ folder for auto backup, and do it manually. 
    Actually, Quicken always locks its data file while actually using it, but the problem is that it releases that lock from for certain operations and then after some period of time (which can be anything from less than a second to a long time depending on the reason it closed the data file) and then wants to open and lock it again.

    Another way of stating this is that Quicken is relying on the locking when it opens the data file.  And that lock is released after the data file is closed instead of placing a lock on the data file for the whole duration that Quicken is running.  That sets it up for race conditions between the cloud program and it for access to the data file.
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  • Gopher651
    Gopher651 Member ✭✭
    You really need to look up mirroring. MIRRORING IS NOT STREAMING. It is just copying a file from one location to another. Me personally i pause the mirroring while I have the file open. When finished restart sync. Why did you recommend copying on a USB to use on another machine? Same thing. If Quickens data file cannot handle a file copy they have problems.

    And yes Quicken closes and reopens the file for certain operations as backup is an example. When backup is run it triggers a sync when the file closes and thus will not reopen thus why I pause until done and restart and the file gets synced.

    I currently have 3 computers that sync to Google drive. Each has a current copy of my qdf file and are always up to date. I have done this for probably 10 years with no issues with the file integrity. Goes back to the days it was called Google Backup & Sync.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    And you should really read my comment.  I know of no cloud folder service that is "streaming".  They are all "mirroring".

    Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox all work the same, they wait for the lock on a file to be removed and then sync/copy the file to the server.  And on the other machine when it sees that data file has been updated on the server it syncs/downloads the data file to the local machine's drive.

    If you are pausing this syncing/mirroring while using Quicken then you will avoid the problems that I described (and I mentioned this in my comment).  What you don't want to do is leave the syncing on while using Quicken because Quicken will at times release the lock that the automatic syncing/mirroring is waiting on and you get contention between the cloud program sync and Quicken.
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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Actually, taking a look at the link you provided about OneDrive and the difference between Mirroring and Streaming, by that definition one can "stream" with the cloud folder providers.  But that is really an "incomplete/incorrect" definition of streaming in opinion.

    You "stream" a movie.  That means the file is being downloaded as the video player reads/shows that the move up to that point (the whole file isn't downloaded and then displayed, it is "streaming in").

    Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox, ... all have modes where they don't download the files from the server until you or a program goes to open them.  But they don't "stream" the file, it is completely downloaded to the local drive first and then opened.
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  • Gopher651
    Gopher651 Member ✭✭
    > @Chris_QPW said:
    > And you should really read my comment.  I know of no cloud folder service that is "streaming".  They are all "mirroring".
    >
    > Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox all work the same, they wait for the lock on a file to be removed and then sync/copy the file to the server.  And on the other machine when it sees that data file has been updated on the server it syncs/downloads the data file to the local machine's drive.
    >
    > If you are pausing this syncing/mirroring while using Quicken then you will avoid the problems that I described (and I mentioned this in my comment).  What you don't want to do is leave the syncing on while using Quicken because Quicken will at times release the lock that the automatic syncing/mirroring is waiting on and you get contention between the cloud program sync and Quicken.

    This I agree. Maybe my explanation was not clear. Also I did not mention only one computer should have the file open at any time and it should be checked that everything is up to date before opening (easy to check with GD).
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