Same Symbol But Two CUSIP ID's - mutual fund conversion

allgoodnamestaken
allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
edited December 2022 in Investing (Windows)
Somehow I missed the fact that I have one mutual fund with the same name, same symbol but it has two different CUSP ID numbers. So it's showing as two funds in my Holdings. I would ideally like to combine the two CUSP ID's into one. Any suggestions on how to correct this? Thank you. 
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  • Somehow I missed the fact that I have one mutual fund with the same name, same symbol but it has two different CUSP ID numbers. So it's showing as two funds in my Holdings. I would ideally like to combine the two CUSP ID's into one. Any suggestions on how to correct this? Thank you. 
    Hello @allgoodnamestaken?  

    I am sorry about this problem with confusing transaction information being downloaded. Thank you for asking about this here on the Quicken Community.

    First, what financial institution is associated with the mutual fund? Also, what Connection Type are you making use of in order to connect your accounts to online banking services? You can check this by clicking one of the affected accounts in the Account List on the left-hand side of the Quicken panel and then navigating to the Settings menu denoted by the 'gear' icon in the lower right-hand corner of the screen. The Downloads tab in the window that appears should contain this information. 

    I look forward to your response, and I hope to provide further assistance, if necessary.

    Thank you,

    Quicken Jared 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most fundamentally —what is the security /are the CUSIPs?  One security can truly only have one CUSIP. There may have been some type of reorganization or spin-off action that led to a slight name change and re-use of the ticker. Specific info needed to guide you. 
  • Ps56k2
    Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OR... for these un-named mutual funds - maybe the "Class" was changed at some point -
    So - what are these mutual funds ?
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    q_lurker, you are correct, the fund name changed a year ago, I had forgotten. The old fund ticker was different from the new fund and to totally complicate matters I changed all previous entries to reflect the new fund name probably giving me the two CUSP IDs. Is it best to change the old Fund transactions to the old fund name and deal with two fund names in the Holdings? What is the best way to return the fund name to the original name? 
  • Ps56k2
    Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    allgoodnamestaken said: q_lurker, you are correct, the fund name changed a year ago, I had forgotten.
    So - still looking for the TWO ticker symbols ... so we all can follow along -

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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    I changed the old fund name to reflect the new fund name and I'm guessing that's why the ticker symbol is the same? The old symbol was PRGIX and the new symbol is TRULX. I'm thinking I need to change the old fund back to PRGIX and deal with the two funds in my Holdings? Didn't think through the ramifications when I altered the original fund. 
  • Ps56k2
    Ps56k2 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2022
    It wasn’t just a fund name change within TRowe, it was a “conversion” - which could have been handled properly at that time to retain the cost basis history and other aspects of the original mutual fund.  Looks like the timeframe was back in March 2022. 
    I had to go thru a Quicken “mutual fund conversion” for 3 of my TRowe accounts when they got migrated to Class-I accounts. 

    [edit] also updated topic title to better reflect the actual Q&A which is a missed Mutual Fund Conversion 
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Is there anyway to fix what I did? 
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    These are two different funds, not different share classes of the same fund.

    Is this a tax deferred account like a 401(k) or IRA, or is it a taxable account?
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    This is a taxable account. 
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2022
    I suggest you look in your statement to see what happened in real life when the original fund was replaced with the new one.

    It appears that PRGIX (T Rowe Price Growth & Income) was acquired by TRULX (T Rowe Price Large Cap Core) around March of last year. Apparently this was a tax free reorganization
    https://www.troweprice.com/content/dam/iinvestor/planning-and-research/tax-planning/dividend-distributions/corporate-actions/trp_growth_and_income_fund_2021_form_8937.pdf

    Your transactions in Quicken should show that you owned the old fund until the acquisition and the new fund afterwards. Your cost basis should be the same before and after. You should delete any Placeholders or Added and Removed transactions in the account that force your share balances to be correct.

    You could enter this in Quicken as a Mutual Fund Conversion, which should preserve your cost basis if it was recorded correctly in the old fund. To avoid a bug in the conversion, before entering it you should click on the gear at the top right of the account, select Edit Account details, and un-check the Use average cost box if it is selected.

    Always back up your data file before changing historical transactions.
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Hi Jim, thanks for the suggestion. As I first mentioned when the "conversion" happened I renamed the all the Growth and Income transactions to the new name Large Cap Core. Is there a way to reverse the name change and then reclassify the change as a Mutual Fund Conversion? Or by renaming did I lose the ability to do that? Thank you. 

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can always go back and change the security name on the old transactions back to the correct one. You must do it one transaction at a time, but it goes quite quickly if you click on the Security header in the Transaction List to sort all the affected transactions together.

    Select a transaction with the correct name, click on the name, and hit ctrl-C to copy the name.

    Then click once on each transaction you want to change to select it, click again to select the security name, hit ctrl-V to paste the correct name, and hit Enter to save. Hopefully the old share quantities and amounts are still correct.
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Once I change the names back to Growth & Income should I do a "conversion" to the new fund to Large Cap Core? The Growth & Income go back to 2004 so there is a fair amount to change. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back to the beginning, you said two securities with same name in Quicken. I say they may be very similar but cannot be the same. Quicken does not allow that. So it may be easy to edit one of those back to the old fund name and change all the old transactions at once. While editing, change that ticker back to PRGIX also. 
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    You should change all the transactions prior to the conversion date back to Growth & Income, because that is what you held back then. Transactions after the conversion date should remain as Large Cap Core.

    The mutual Fund Conversion will enter a Removed transaction for all the shares of Growth and Income that you held on the conversion date and enter one Added transaction for each tax lot of Large Cap Core that you held after the conversion, corresponding to your original tax lots. If you have been reinvesting dividends since 2004, that will be a lot of Added transactions.
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Can you explain how/where I can make the fund name change? If I click on the security name in the transactions and go to the edit box, the fund name is greyed out, I'm unable to make a name change. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try security list - Ctrl-y.  Edit the security. Should be able to edit the name. That is also where you’d change the Ticker back. 
  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    I added back Growth & Income to the Security List how do I change all the Security names on the transaction page? Everything is still the Large Cap Core going back to 2004. Thank you.  
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are not changing everything back to Growth & Income, just the transactions prior to the conversion date, and you are leaving the post conversion transactions as Large Cap Core.

    But before you do that, are there a lot more transactions pre conversion? If so there may be a less laborious way to do this. Please let us know.
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  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    I have only four transactions after the conversion but 95 before the conversion. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @allgoodnamestaken -- Are you wiling to go back to the beginning on this?  You said your holdings view of this account showed the same real-world fund as two separate Quicken securities with the same name, same ticker, but different CUSIPs.  Is that or was that true?  Do the two securities show as two securities in the security list (Ctrl-Y)?  

    I suggest the two names may be very similar but must actually be unique.  Quicken does not allow two securities to have the same name.  The difference could be as little as punctuation or a space.  If there really are two such securities, I can see that one might be pre-conversion holding.  Those would be the PRGIX shares and transactions but now with the wrong name and wrong ticker associated.  The second might be the post conversion shares, with the proper name and proper TRULX ticker.  If that hypothesis is valid, your corrective action should be much simpler.

    If you have to change the 2004-2021 transactions from the current security to your newly created Growth & Income security, it will need to be done editing each transaction one at a time.  The sequence I would use:  
    1. Copy the desired security name (Growth & Income) to the clipboard (Ctrl-C)
    2. Sort the transactions list by security (click the Security column header)
    3. Click on the earliest transaction first to highlight the transaction
    4. Click again on the actual security name to highlight that field.  
    5. Paste the G&I name over the old name (Ctrl-V)
    6. Click "Enter" accepting the change and advancing to the next transaction
    7. Repeat 4-6 as needed.
    Cautions about this approach:
    • Your price history information will be incomplete without more extensive reconstruction.
    • If you had sales of that security and were specific about the lots sold, that data will be lost.  Any such sales you would have to re-specify the lots sold.  If all sales (in any) were FIFO, you should not have any issues in this regard.  

  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    I used the first Security that was called Large Cap Core and changed the name and ticker symbol back to Growth & Income in the Securities list. If I understand what you are suggesting, I am unable to highlight or change any Security name in the transactions. Clicking on the security highlights the full transaction but does not allow for any changes. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used the first Security that was called Large Cap Core and changed the name and ticker symbol back to Growth & Income in the Securities list. If I understand what you are suggesting, I am unable to highlight or change any Security name in the transactions. Clicking on the security highlights the full transaction but does not allow for any changes. 
    I am not suggesting that. In most cases, you should be able to edit the security name in a transaction. The primary exception is if the account is a Single Mutual Fund account. I thought you indicated this was not a SMF account but I don’t see that comment from you now. 

    Did changing the security names change all the desired transactions?
  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    It is a single Mutual Fund Account and nothing changed When I changed the security name. I was hoping that would happen but it did not. 
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hope this doesn't get too confusing.  That you are working with SMF accounts is a wrench in the works in my opinion.  It is not something that Quicken for which provides a tool to use in the situation you went through.  Further I am not clear on what you did back in March 2021 when this conversion actually took place.  Nor am I clear on how close or far off your current Quicken information is as compared to the T Rowe Price (TRP) information.  Finally, other than the fact that you have two very similar Quicken securities representing the same real world security, I have sort of lost track of what we are trying to rectify.  

    You have stated you have two securities with the same name, same ticker, and different CUSIP designations.  I infer that these are owned in two separate Quicken accounts each designated as being a Single Mutual Fund (SMF) account.  I have tried to claim that the two securities cannot have identical names.  

    Are you clear on the difference between an Account Name and a Security Name within Quicken?  Being specific, please identify the two account names and the two security names in each of those two accounts.  If you have a third security representing the Growth & Income fund that was absorbed, please clearly identify that as well.  

    Does the total share count of those two securities agree with the TRP information, or do we need to fix the share count also?

    Presumably, one of those accounts is getting transactions downloaded into it from TRP, correct?  Which one?

    To change the security in a SMF account, I would do the following:
    • Change the status of the account to be -- No, it is not a single mutual fund account
    • Edit each transaction to reflect the preferred security name.
    • After all transactions are so edited, you should be able to change the No back to a Yes, it is a SMF account.  I would not choose that option myself, but you might be more comfortable maintaining the SMF as it has been.
    Are we also trying to correct the history such that your records show you owned the G&I fund before March 2021 and not after that point? 
  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Hi q_lurker, it does get confusing. I'll try to recap.
    Way back when, I set this fund up as a SMF. Not sure why, i was new to the Investing portion of Quicken and it must have made sense to me at the time. The fund was originally called Growth & Income. That was also the name of the Account. However, in that SMF account at the time called Growth & Income, I now had two fund names Growth & Income and Large-Cap Core. After T. Rowe absorbed/converted Growth & Income into Large-Cap Core i did something that changed all the previous Growth & Income fund names to the new Large-Cap Core name. I'm guessing this is why I was seeing two Large-Cap Core names in the same account with the same ticker but different CUSP ID's. One of those CUSP ID's belonged to Growth & Income? 
    So at this point I have:
    1. A SMF account called Large-Cap Core 
    2. The funds in this SMF account now has two funds in it both called Large-Cap Core
    3. The total shares and dollar amount, adding the two funds, match my statement perfectly
    4. Ideally, I would like to correct the history to show I owned the D&I fund before March 2021. 



    To further add to this mess, but maybe simplify it, there are actually more funds that are under one account number at T. Rowe but were also set up under SMF accounts originally. Can those SMF accounts be consolidated under one account at this point?  It looks like from your explanation that might be possible but I'm not clear on the steps to do so? 

    I hope this helps clarify what I'm trying to accomplish? 

  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    However, in that SMF account at the time called Growth & Income, I now had two fund names Growth & Income and Large-Cap Core. 

    To do that, you had to change the Growth & Income ACCOUNT to no longer be a SMF account.  No immediate problem with doing so.  Just mentally recreating your process.

    After T. Rowe absorbed/converted Growth & Income into Large-Cap Core i did something that changed all the previous Growth & Income fund names to the new Large-Cap Core name. I'm guessing this is why I was seeing two Large-Cap Core names in the same account with the same ticker but different CUSP ID's. One of those CUSP ID's belonged to Growth & Income?

    Have you confirmed in your Security List that the two Large-Cap Core names are distinct?  

    The "I did something " was probably an "Enter Transactions" "Corporate Name Change" action.  If perhaps you had already downloaded transactions from the brokerage involving their version of Large-Cap Core, the name change routine would have required you to rename with a unique name, but would not have changed the CUSIP.  You also would have had to manually change the ticker from PRGIX to TRULX.  At that point, you would have your two very similarly named Large-Cap Core securities with the same ticker but different CUSIPs, one being correct from the brokerage download, and one being the former Growth & Income CUSIP.  That version of Large-Cap Core downloaded from the brokerage need not have been into this account.  It could have been held in any account.

    Another consideration at that stage, exchanging the PRGIX (Growth & Income) shares for the TRULX (Large-Cap Core) shares, you would have received 1.05477222 shares of TRULX for each share of PRGIX held on March 8, 2021.  So some form of a share count change must have been entered as well.    

    So at this point I have:
    1. A SMF account called Large-Cap Core        

    Did you also rename the Growth & Income ACCOUNT to be Large-Cap Core?  That would be a separate action from the Name Change I referenced above.  OR is this Large-Cap Core ACCOUNT distinct from the original Growth & Income ACCOUNT?

    2. The funds in this SMF account now has two funds in it both called Large-Cap Core

    What are the exact names of the two funds?

    An SMF account cannot have two funds in it.  I am incredulous that you are seeing two funds   

    Per the TRP website, the CUSIP for TRULX Large-Cap Core is CUSIP 74149R107.  Another TRP site offers this Form 8937 for the conversion: 

    https://www.troweprice.com/content/dam/iinvestor/planning-and-research/tax-planning/dividend-distributions/corporate-actions/trp_growth_and_income_fund_2021_form_8937.pdf

    Therein the CUSIP for the PRGIX fund shows as 779551100.  How do those compare your two Quicken securities?

    4. Ideally, I would like to correct the history to show I owned the D&I fund before March 2021. 

    If your two Large-Cap Core securities have those two CUSIPs. the one with the 779551100 CUSIP should be renamed back to Growth & Income and the ticker should be changed back to PRGIX.  That SHOULD change the transactions before March, 2021 back to Growth & Income IF I have properly interpreted what you might have done.  (You are keeping good backups along the war aren't you?

    Once we get that history restored, I would be more comfortable getting the conversion done correctly.

    One other tool or step - In a Holdings view (or I prefer a more flexible Portfolio view - Ctrl-U), you can set the As of date as desired.  If you set that back to about March 5, 2021 (just before the conversion) for that account (now named Large-Cap Core), what security information do you see?  How does that share count relate to your Growth & Income at that time?  (I would expect you to see the number of PRGIX shares you owned on that date.)

    To further add to this mess, but maybe simplify it, there are actually more funds that are under one account number at T. Rowe but were also set up under SMF accounts originally. Can those SMF accounts be consolidated under one account at this point?  It looks like from your explanation that might be possible but I'm not clear on the steps to do so?   

    We can tackle that in a bit.  The fundamental consideration in that decision is matching the downloading requirements of T Rowe Price (in this case).  If the brokerage requires a separate Quicken account for each fund. consolidating may not be a good move.  It appears to me that TRP has that one-to-one policy, but I cannot swear to that.  

  • allgoodnamestaken
    allgoodnamestaken Member ✭✭✭
    Happy New Year! 
    So under the Account Name U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund (that is the exact name) In a SMF account I now have the  Growth & Income account back as well as the U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund. It's showing the change occurred on 3-5-21 which is correct. In the account called U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund when i click on holdings i see the two funds. G&I and U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund. Each is showing a share amount, if i add those two together it matches the T. Rowe Statement. However the T. Rowe statement has consolidated under U.S. Large-Cap. What is the correct procedure in Quicken to match my T. Rowe statement and only have the one fund (U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund) while maintaining previous history of Growth & Income?  

    Once the G&I/U.S. Large-Cap account is corrected can we move all the funds (there would be three) under account name? The name would be the account number. 

    Thank you again for all of your help, I really appreciate your patience. 


  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, Happy New Year back at ya.  That appears tor be good progress. 

    In the account called U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund when I click on holdings I see the two funds. G&I and U.S. Large-Cap Core Fund. Each is showing a share amount, if I add those two together it matches the T. Rowe Statement. 
     I take that to mean that the shares shown in Quicken currently for G&I plus the shares shown for U.S. Large-Cap Core total what TRP shows currently for U.S Large-Cap Core.  There is a tangential set of questions there.

    Can you confirm now that your security list only includes the one U.S. Large-Cap Core fund?

    What about the basis of both those shares?
    Does the basis shown in that account for G&I plus the basis shown for the Large-Cap Core equal what TRP reports for Large-Cap Core now?
    Do you care about the basis shown in Quicken or are you comfortable relying on TRP to properly report capital gains/losses when any of those shares are sold?    

    When the U.S. Large-Cap Core fund acquired (took over) the G&I fund, you received more shares of the Large-Cap Core fund than you had shares of the G&I Fund.  If you had 100 shares of G&I with a basis of $5,000, that became 105.477 shares of Large-Cap Core also with a basis of $5,000.  So to be precise, a 1:1 trade (exchange) of G&I shares for Large-Cap Core shares is inaccurate; it messes up the cost basis per share. 

    If that 5+ per cent basis differential is not important to you, you should be able to now do a Mutual Fund Conversion dated 3/8/21 where with the existing G&I fund converted to the Large-Cap Core Fund.  The shares of new field will be the share count of the G&I fund shown on that date.  That is saying that each share is converted at a 1:1 ratio.  While that is not wholly accurate, it should be sufficient since that will lead to the correct hare count today.  Look up the price in Quicken for the U.S. Large-Cap Core fund on that same date and use that value in the price field.