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Stock Style Box not working properly

eheller1

I use a copy of my investment account to do Hypothetical transactions to see what
certain funds will do to my Stock Style Box. I am finding that many mutual funds don't
show any movement at all in the Style Box.I usually add a very large purchase just to see
if the style box actually works with certain funds. They still don't. How can I get this to work?
I have an investment account at TRPrice and they also use the Morning Star Style Box. These same mutuals
work fine there. I wonder if there is a problem with Quicken. I have a list of funds that don't work
if you need them.

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Accepted answers

Boatnmaniac

Ah, OK. When you enter the hypothetical transactions, are you then clicking on Refresh X-Ray?

eheller1

Yes and then you have to refresh Xray to see the changes

Boatnmaniac

I just made a hypothetical very large purchase in my TEST file of PRTS (Carparts.com) which is a small cap stock. I then refreshed X-Ray and it changed the Stock Style Box as I had anticipated. Do you have all the Account(s) and Security(ies) selected that you want to include in X-Ray?

All comments

Boatnmaniac

I'm not sure what you mean by "Stock style Box". Are you referring to Asset Class? Or are you referring to Asset Allocations?

eheller1

The Stock Style Box is under Portfolio X-Ray in Quicken.

Boatnmaniac

Ah, OK. When you enter the hypothetical transactions, are you then clicking on Refresh X-Ray?

eheller1

Yes and then you have to refresh Xray to see the changes

Boatnmaniac

eheller1

The Style box does respond to many funds but not all funds. It is hard to find a balance in your portfolio if only some funds are responding

Boatnmaniac

eheller1 said:

The Style box does respond to many funds but not all funds. It is hard to find a balance in your portfolio if only some funds are responding

Are any of your MFs included in an employer retirement plan, such as a 401k or Roth 401k?

If so, are any of those MFs not publicly traded MFs? Don't focus on the name of the MF because retirement plans are notorious for using the same name of a publicly traded MF for their non-publicly traded MF. If the Plan Administrator has not provided you with the Ticker for any of those MFs it usually means the MF is not publicly traded and is, therefore, internal to the plan only. Any such MFs will not be included in the Portfolio X-Ray.

eheller1

No funds are in my retirement plan. Here is a partial list of funds that don't show any number changes in my account. EAALX, AKREX, CSIEX, DREVX, AMAGX, PGIAX. Just to give you an idea what I am talking about. Thank you so much for your response.

Boatnmaniac

Interesting. I added all of these MFs to my test file and noticed that none of them were connected with their online securities and did not have CUSIPs. So I thought that might be the reason.

To test that out, I entered a very large purchase of a single sector MF that does have a CUSIP in Quicken and is connected to its online security. To my surprise, nothing in the Stock Style box changed.
I the entered a large purchase of a single sector MF that does not have a CUSIP in Quicken and is not connected to its online security. To my surprise, once again, nothing in the Stock Style box changed.
Also, that Carparts.com stock purchase I'd entered the other day does not have a CUSIP, nor is it linked to the online security. But it did change the Stock Style box.

So, it does not appear to a stock vs MF issue. Nor does it appear to be related to the CUSIP being present vs the CUSIP being missing. Nor does this appear to be a private MF (i.e., 401k plan MF) issue since all of the MFs in question are publicly traded.

Right now I'm a bit stumped. There must be something else at play here that I am just not seeing or maybe it is a bug of some sort. But if it were a bug, then why would the issue be repeatable with each security?

I'm going to play around with this some more to see I can make something of this.

Hopefully someone else will pipe in here with some additional insights.

eheller1

Thank you so much for the work you have done. This started me thinking that I may have a bug in my quicken install. I bought a new computer a few months ago and I installed Quicken on it. My old computer is in my basement but I can connect to it with Team Viewer. I am currently out of town. I tried to connect to it and use the old Quicken install on that computer. I only tried 3 of the mutual funds that didn't work on the new computer and surprisingly they worked on the old computer. As soon as I get back home I will reinstall Quicken and see what happens. I will let you know for future reference. You have been a big help. Thank you again. Stay tuned.
Earl

Boatnmaniac

Well, silly me. The one thing I didn't do in my tests was to try plugging in buys of the MFs you mentioned above. I just did that and the Stock Style noticeably changed each time. I don't know if the changes are correct but they were not small changes.

I then decided to plug in the MFs that caused no Stock Style change earlier, again, and this time they all caused it to change.

Maybe it is a bug in your install but then why did I also get the same issue showing up? And then why did the issue go away once I tried testing them, again? Maybe it's not so much an install issue as it is an issue with the interface between Quicken and Morningstar?

I will stay tuned and look forward to hearing from you.

q_lurker

@Boatnmaniac To ask the obvious - Did you happen to click the Refresh X-Ray button as you varied your pseudo-purchases?

I happen to have AKREX in my portfolio. If I cut the security selection down to just that fund, the box does change to data consistent with that fund.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/uc/okacbwp9hqp6.jpg

Since I was changing the selection criteria (accounts and securities), the refresh seemed to be automatic. I don't know what the pattern would be with new securities being added or the share counts changing.

Boatnmaniac

q_lurker said:

@Boatnmaniac To ask the obvious - Did you happen to click the Refresh X-Ray button as you varied your pseudo-purchases?
I happen to have AKREX in my portfolio. If I cut the security selection down to just that fund, the box does change to data consistent with that fund.

Since I was changing the selection criteria (accounts and securities), the refresh seemed to be automatic. I don't know what the pattern would be with new securities being added or the share counts changing.

Yes, I refreshed X-Ray each time I made a change.

The process I used for testing was pretty simple.

Did not change any existing investment transactions in the test file.
Entered a new transaction in one of my test investment account for $1,000,000 (to help ensure significant movement in the Stock Style box) for one of the MFs.
Refreshed X-Ray and noted the changes that were made or not made to Stock Style.
Edited that new transaction by replacing it with a different MF....kept the same price per share and number of shares.
Refreshed X-Ray and noted the changes.
Repeated this process with 3 more of my MFs and with all 5 of @eheller1 's MFs.

I did get different results between the two exercises I did earlier today.

q_lurker

For my test, I bought $2000 of each of the 6 MFs in one account (test file) as of yesterday's prices (1/20/23).

I then went to the X-Ray and looked at that specific account with the 6 funds (equally balanced) - Style Box, and tabulated the 9 box values.

Looking at the style box for each separately, they were all unique and all consistent with a Large Cap Growth portfolio. (Upper right corner ranged from 46 to 61.)

Looking at all 6 in aggregate, the style box was the average of the 6 across the board, all 9 boxes.

I am using R44.32, FWIW. Did not require any refreshing along the way. "Portfolio X-Ray data as of _____ " updated with each change.

I do think I have seen cases in the past where the data did not fully update as changes were made, but I don't recall details. I am biased to believe that it is a GUI issue where either exiting the X-Ray view or exiting the program can be required to get the data presentation correct. (no proof to that)

Boatnmaniac

q_lurker said:

I am using R44.32, FWIW. Did not require any refreshing along the way. "Portfolio X-Ray data as of _____ " updated with each change.

I do think I have seen cases in the past where the data did not fully update as changes were made, but I don't recall details. I am biased to believe that it is a GUI issue where either exiting the X-Ray view or exiting the program can be required to get the data presentation correct. (no proof to that)

Interesting. I don't use this part of X-Ray all that much. I mostly use this Stock Intersection because if one has a lot of mutual funds and also holds a fair amount of stock holdings it is easy for exposure to a few companies to get to be too high of a percentage of the portfolio. Fidelity does not have a tool like this so it is great to be able to see where I might need to reduce my exposure to some companies to reduce risk to my overall portfolio. I generally like to make sure that no single company comprises more than about 2% of my portfolio and this tool does a great job of identifying just how much I have invested with each company.

Getting back to X-Ray: I can't remember if I normally have to do refresh or not when I make holdings changes. But in these two test exercises today I needed to refresh after every holdings change. It did not do it automatically.

q_lurker

@eheller1 I also note that both @Boatnmaniac and I are on an R44 release. Did not see what release you are on with either your newer computer or your older one. That is something else to take note of. There is not wide use of the Portfolio X-Ray features so a bug in an R45 or R46 may have gone unnoticed so far.

eheller1

My version is R46.12 Build 27.1.45.12. This is the same on both my old computer and new one. I was hoping for a different version on the old one to compare to but it updated before I new it!

Boatnmaniac

You can revert to earlier versions pretty easily. Go to https://www.quicken.com/support/reinstalling-and-patching-your-quicken-subscription-version-after-your-membership-has and scroll down to see the months listed. Click on a month and you can see the versions that were released that month. Click on the version you want and it will download the Mondo Patch for that version. Save it and then double click on it to install it. It will revert you installation to the version you just downloaded.

BTW, R44.20 was the last released version of Sep 2022. @q_lurker 's version R44.32 is not showing up here so I think he probably meant R44.23 which is the first released version of Oct 2022 but he should confirm this.

If you do revert, I suggest that you make sure your UAC setting is set to Always notify as shown in this picture. It should prevent Quicken from automatically updating the version without your approval.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/j3/4idpcykd7g7h.png

q_lurker

My error. R43.32 is my version. Thought I had stepped up one more level.
My general policy -- I let UAC prevent automatic updates and never accept on first offer. I monitor this site to see the new features and monitor complaints. Insufficient new or corrected features and too many complaints that might affect my use lead to no update. I am a bit further behind at this stage than normal. I was looking forward to R46, but the loss of splits and limited reports of lost price histories has me holding off for the moment.
Per the Announcements (Last hotfix of each release)
R43.32 Sep 22, 22
R44.28 Oct 25, 22 (though some prefer 44.20, the initial Oct release)
R45.21 Dec 21, 22 (Lots of issues with several R45 releases)
R46.12 Jan 12, 23 Latest version.

eheller1

I just reinstalled Quiken on my new computer and nothing has changed. I am still unable to get the Stock Style Box to change numbers with a large investment of the MFs I mentioned earlier. My old computer Quicken still shows those changes though. The only major difference I can see on the old computer is that computer is running windows 10 while my new computer runs windows 11. The old computer has the same version of Quicken as the new one. I wonder if there is a list of Quicken problems exclusive to windows 11? I am still looking for an answer.

q_lurker

Recapping:

On the older PC (Win 10), the style box responds to changes in fund ownership of all funds.
On the newer PC (Win 11), the style box responds to changes in fund ownership for some, but not all funds.
Both are running R46.12

Seems to me a data file difference is more likely than an Win10 vs 11 difference.

Grasping at straws, is the data file being used for the two computers identically the same file (obviously only open on one PC at at a time)? Is it being accessed from the local hard drive in each case?

If they actually happen to be two distinct files, can you swap them? Try the newer PC file on the older PC?

In the file being accessed by the newer PC, is the asset mixture information for the non-responsive funds correct? My AKREX fund currently shows 72% Lg Cap, 11% Sml Cap, 14% Int'l, and 3% Cash. Is it the data the same in both files (assuming distinct)?

eheller1

I like your recap, It is right on! I am using 2 separate files one for each computer and they reside on each computer's hard drive. I tried opening the new computer's Quicken file on the old computer. I then entered several of the MFs in question. None of them gave me any change in numbers. Over the months I have noticed some MFs don't seem to change one day but they will in a day or two if I try again. Again I use a large amount to force a noticable change in numbers. This time it has been almost two weeks and still no change. Is there such a thing as a data file becoming too large in Quicken? I used to archive my Quicken files yearly but Quicken gives me more information when I don't archive. Thank you for your imput.

q_lurker

Is there such a thing as a data file becoming too large in Quicken?

In my opinion, No. and certainly not in the context of the behavior seen here.

I then entered several of the MFs in question. None of them gave me any change in numbers.

I take that to mean you entered the large-scale buys of those funds to try to move the needle. the funds and fund data were already defined in that file.

You did not address what I asked about regarding asset mixture. Asset mixture is summarized on the Security Details screen and editable when the Edit Details is called up. Usually funds are set to download that asset class information but the user can override that data (a tabular form) and prevent that downloading (a checkbox). Even without user intervention, that asset mixture can get out of whack. I am not clear how often it is updated or by whom for that matter. In that same context, I assume you rather frequently update prices via Quicken which would naturally update the asset class information. Updating only through a brokerage download would not update that asset class information.

eheller1

I checked the Asset Mixture information of AKREX on both of my files. They are both the same numbers as you stated. The style box moves in the older computer but not the new one. Yes, I did enter large purchases just to see movement so I know this is working properly. My Quicken updates many times a day.

q_lurker

So if you customize the X-Ray to just the AKREX security in just one account, do you get the box I posted above on the 21st? From there, I would incrementally expand the scope with additional securities and accounts to try to identify where something goes wrong or doesn’t make sense.

eheller1

No, I added AKREX to my hypothetical profile just to get to see the Asset Mixture information. I have at least 15 securities in that account and I didn't want to remove all of them. How can I customize XRAY to isolate just one security?

eheller1

I figured out how to isolate the one security AKREX and the numbers are the same as the numbers you posted. 6 29 52 0 8 5

eheller1

I think I may have solved my problem. By you telling me to isolate AKREX, I found that second custom box which I never knew about. When I opened the box I found several of the funds that didn't show up were not checked in that box They should have been. That may have been my problem. I need to check that box more often if certain funds don't register. I tried several other funds that were not showing any changes and they seem to be working for now. Thank you so much for your help. I will let you know if this doesn't work out for me.

q_lurker

I suspect that points to a form of inconsistency within Quicken. If you have a selected list (categories, securities, accounts, payees, etc.) for a report, view, whatever and add another item, does that new item automatically get included in the pre-selected list or not? Users want it different ways. The same user may have a different answer in different circumstances. As the program has evolved, I don’t believe there is a unified strategy.

It is very plausible that as you added securities, they did not get added to the selection list for the X-Ray views. That may apply whether the prior selection was All Securities (which would really be a bug) or was a selection of securities (where it amounts to programmer’s choice as to which way to go).

eheller1

I noticed that some securities were added but some were not. I'm so glad you pointed that box out to me.