No "Yield on Investment" information
When I go to the Portfolio View, there is a column setting to calculate "Yield on Investment (%)" When I select this as a column in Portfolio View, the column shows all zeroes. Likewise the "Yield on Investment (Estimated)" Column shows zero also. This occurs for all securities I own. In other words, the columns are totally useless.
I can calculate the "Income by Security" for every Security in the Investing Reports section. But I have to use the information from this report to make the calculations manually. If Income By Security, over the life of the holding, is available, seems like only one more step would be required for an "at a glance" calculation in the "Yield on Investment (%)" column in Portfolio View.
I am using Quicken Classic Business and Personal. I switch between Windows 10 and 11. Same problem.
Answers
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The Yield on Investment (Estimated) and (%) depend on the the user-entered "Est. Income" amount. To access this, go to the Security Details page for a security, click on Edit Details and then More. This is entered in $/share/year and defaults to 0.00.
There is an existing Idea post requesting that Quicken calculate this automatically, with some interesting discussion on how to calculate it. Please see, comment, and vote on the Idea here
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Jim. Thanks for that, but maybe I'm missing something. I am trying to calculate the annual % yield on my original cost basis. I can't get to this calculation in Quicken.
Example: Home Depot stock. Original purchase cost of 2022 shares was $46,270. The current quarterly income is $4,226 ($2.09 per share). Annual income is $16,904 ($8.36 per share). The 2023 annual yield on my original purchase cost is 37%. ($16,903/$46,270=37%).
I followed your suggestion and here are my observations. 1) You stated: "To access this, go to the Security Details page for a security, click on Edit Details and then More." In my version of Quicken, there is no "More" button to select under the "Edit Details" screen. However, a button for "Other Info" appears. When I click on that button, the screen titled "Additional Security Information" comes up with a space for "Est. Income." Here is the procedure I used: 1) Security Detail View, 2) select Edit Details, 3) Select "Other Info" which brings up "Additional Security Information," 4) Insert number in "Est. Income" line.
2) Based on your suggestion, I have put the following different numbers into the referenced "Est. Income" space in the "Additional Security Information" screen/page and end up with the following results in the selectible Columns in the Portfolio View:
a) Single dividend per share/per quarter ($2.09): "Yield on investment (%)" is .7%, "Income (%)" is 27.4%
b) Total dividend per share/annual ($8.36): "Yield on investment (%)" is 2.8%, "Income (%)" is 27.4%
c) Total dividends per quarter ($4,226): "Yield on investment (%)" is 1,418%, "Income (%)" is 27.4%
d) Total dividends per year ($16,904): "Yield on investment (%)" is 5,671.5%, "Income (%)" is 27.4%.
3) The "Income(%)" calculation (27.4%) is correct based upon 3 quarters of dividend income ((3x $4226)/$46,270=27.4%). quicken also gives the correct estimate of annual income ($16,903) in the "Estimated income" column provided the correct annual dividend per share ($8.36) is inserted in the "Additional Security Information" page of the Security Details View. However, I have to assume that the "Income(%)" calculation is utilizing data that quicken has obtained from data downloads. The "Income(%)" calculation is unaffected by the numbers placed in the "Est. Income" line of the "Additional Security Information" page.
As you can see, other than the Portfolio View's "Income (%)" calculation, none of these calculations are accurate. I don't understand that Quicken can calculate "Estimated Income" correctly, but can't calculate an "Estimated Yield on Cost." The calculations are 95% complete in the Portfolio View's "Estimated Income" column and in the "Income by Security" Report.
FYI, I am using Quicken Classic, Business & Personal, Version R52.8, Build 27.1.52.28.
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You are right, the button is Other info, not More.
With your Home Depot example, in the Est. Income box you should enter the annual dividend per share, which is $8.36. Quicken will use the number you enter here in its Estimated Income, Yield on Investment (estimated) and Yield on Investment (%) column calculations.
For your holding of 2,022 shares and an Amount Invested of $46,270, the Estimated income in the Portfolio views is correct at 8.36 x 2022 or 16,903.92.
The annual percentage yield you are looking for (annual income/amount invested) is shown in the Yield on Investment (estimated) column as 36.53, which is the correct percentage. The column heading is certainly confusing (some might say wrong).
The Yield on investment (%) column appears to show the $8.36 divided by the current price per share of 291.92, or 2.86%. Again I think the column heading is incorrect.
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Please consider what I would think are relevant columns in a portfolio view:
- The columns Annual Dividend, Dividend, and Dividend Yield. These are downloaded values related only to the ticker of the security. The values are not related to any transactions or other information in your file. The Dividend Yield is then the Annual Dividend divided by the 'current' price. A limited investigation (three securities) suggests that 'current' price may not be the price on that date of the download. I was seeing that the yield presented for October 13 was based on the price from October 11. I can't say if that is a normal practice. So Dividend Yield is effectively based on current market value.
- The second pair of columns to consider are the Income and Income % columns. That Income value is from transactions in your file. It also depends on the Options / Portfolio Preferences setting for the starting date of return calculations. That defaults to Earliest available but the user can specify any other starting date. The Income % is then that Income value divided by the cost basis of the currently held shares. So Income could be from 20 years of transactions with that security even though your current shares were acquired yesterday.
- Finally, there are columns Estimated Income, Yield on Investment %, and Yield on Investment (Estimated). As previously noted, Estimated Income is that security detail setting (Est, Income) times number of shares. Other than number of shares, actual transactions in your records are not a factor. Yield on Investment % (as I see it) is then that Estimated Income value divided by the current Market Value. By the same token, that yield is also that Est. Income value / current price. In that context, current price and current market value are associated to the As Of date for the portfolio view. Note that this interpretation of Yield on Investment % not how Quicken describes the value, which is as a percentage of Amount Invested. In contrast, Yield on Investment (Estimated) is (as I see it) that Estimated Income divided by Amount Invested. Amount Invested is (in my opinion) a very odd metric within Quicken. It ignores shares (value) associated with reinvestment. It increases with each buy but does not decrease with the sales. In the context of this discussion, it also varies with the starting date specified in the Options / Portfolio Preference setting. As such, in very specific careful situations, Amount Invested could equate with Cost Basis, but it is not reliable in doing so. Thus, Yield on Investment (Estimated)is not a reliable replacement for your desired Yield using cost basis.
So none of these lead to a Yield truly computed off of basis.
But now, my question to you: Why would you want Yield as a percent of cost rather than Yield as a percent of current value? If you are getting $2,000 of dividend income annually and your investment cost $10,000 a 20% yield sounds really damn good. But if the value of the investment is now $100,000 because you bought it 35 years ago, you are only really getting 2% — not nearly so impressive. Yield on basis sounds really misleading to me.
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q_lurker: Just an FYI, I consider myself to be very proficient in how the program operates and am aware of the information you posted. The problem that I have is that despite everything you mentioned, I can't get an accurate "yield as a percent of cost" calculation in any of the columns. In particular, as Jim_Harman pointed out, (and my own calculations show) my (annual) dividend yield on investment cost (basis) for Home Depot stock is 36.53%. This number just does not come up, not even close, no matter what data I enter. What is odd is that Quicken automatically downloads the information necessary to make the calculations. From the download of current dividend amounts, the calculation of "yield as a percent of cost" is very straightforward. You take the total annual dividend income and divide it by the EXISTING investment cost. This calculation is very relevant when comparing dividend growth rates on various stocks. It also gives an additional data point as to the total annual return on the stock. In your example above, you even used the particular calculation I am looking for to make a relevant comparison ("investment cost $10,000 a 20% yield sounds really damn good"). I use this information when contemplating future transactions in the security and other. For example, I also hold Comcast. The Yield on my cost is 3.4%. Pretty weak dividend growth compared to Home Depot.
Jim_Harman: "The annual percentage yield you are looking for (annual income/amount invested) is shown in the Yield on Investment (estimated) column as 36.53, which is the correct percentage." While the 36.53% number is correct, I'm not sure how you are getting this in the Yield on Investment (estimated) column. I have tried all different dividend amounts: quarterly ($2.09), annually ($8.36), total quarterly ($4,225.98), and the total annually ($16,903.92). The results I get in the "Yield on Investment (estimated) column are .66%, 2.65%, 1,337.93% and 5,351.71% respectively. I cannot get to the correct number (36.53%) in the Yield on Investment (estimated) column no matter how hard I try. Another odd thing is that in the Income (%) column, I get 27.4%. I have no idea where this number is coming from. It does not change no matter what amounts I input manually. So the calculation is coming from data somewhere else in the program. I also don't understand why one has to manually enter the "Estimated Income" amount in the "Additional Security Information" screen. Quicken already downloads this information and reports it the "Dividend" Column.
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@Jose i stated previously
Yield on Investment (Estimated) is (as I see it) that Estimated Income divided by Amount Invested.
Estimated Income is Est. Income from the Security details times current number of shares. In most cases, entering the annual dividend rate per share in that field makes the most sense. It is your choice whether you go with the past year’s rate or a forward looking rate.
But Amount Invested can be all over the place. a) it depends on your selection for a starting date for return calculations in the portfolio view. How is yours set? b) it depends on your trading pattern in that security. If you have sold shares, Amount Invested is likely greater than your cost basis of currently held shares. You can add an Amount Invested column to a portfolio view to see what value is being used.
Most if not all of my prior message was to try to explain those various presented values. I agree none of those show yield on cost basis in any consistent fashion. As I see it, the Yield on Investment (estimated) might show that value in certain cases only, rarely in all cases.
You have already been pointed toward a relevant idea to change the Est. Income feature. Asking why Quicken is programmed in a certain way is not something that can usually be addressed by this community.
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The "Est. income" should be entered as $/share/year, not any of the other amounts you tried. For Home Depot, based on its current dividend payout, that is $8.63, as you stated in your example.
One reason users might want to set this manually is that it is not always clear what that should be:
- based on past 12 months dividends?
- based on current dividend, e.g. last quarterly amount x 4?
- include capital gains distributions?
- include return of capital distributions?
All that and more is discussed in the Idea post I referenced earlier.
The Yield on Investment (estimated) column appears to be calculated as (Est. income as defined above) x (shares held on the As of Date) / (Amount invested). In the example you gave earlier, that is $8.36 x 2022 shares / $46,270 = 0.3653 = 37%.
This may or may not be what you are looking for, based on Quicken's definition of Amount invested. See item 3 in q_lurker's post above for a discussion of that. Amount invested is not the same as your cost basis if you have reinvested dividends or partial sales for example.
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Jim, you stated that: "The Yield on Investment (estimated) column appears to be calculated as (Est. income as defined above) x (shares held on the As of Date) / (Amount invested). In the example you gave earlier, that is $8.36 x 2022 shares / $46,270 = 0.3653 = 37%." My Quicken program does not calculate it that way. I performed the steps exactly as you stated. I manually put in $8.36 which is the $/share/year. I have put in every possible combination of numbers, and changed the portfolio date as lurker suggested. I still cannot get close to 37%. The "Estimated Income" column correctly states the annual estimated income is $16,903.92. However, the "Yield on Investment (Estimated)" continues to incorrectly state 2.65%, not 37%.
Lurker: I do not have reinvested dividends, nor partial purchase or sales since the shares were originally purchased in 2003. I have held the original shares since the original purchase. For reasons I don't understand, the "Amount Invested" column states that the "amount invested" is $638,668, not $46,270. I have no idea how Quicken arrives at this number.. The notes in Customize Menu state that "Amount Invested" is the "Amount you invested, including expenses, excluding reinvested income." But this $638,668 makes no sense since the only amount I have invested is the original purchase price.
When the number from the "Amount Invested" column ($638,668) is divided into the total dividend amount ($16,903.92) it does come out to 2.65%. However, the only "Amount Invested" is my original cost basis $46,270. So not only is the "Yield on Investment (Estimated)" not being calculated correctly, but neither is the "Amount Invested" column. Likewise, the total dividend income received since that time and added to the original investment is not even close to $638,668.
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The question you have not answered is your setting under portfolio preferences.
HD started 2023 at about $316/share. Your 2022 shares would have had a beginning of year value of about $639,000. I’d bet your setting is to Show return calculations from: 01/01/2023.
That scheme is then saying on that starting date, you effectively invested that amount in that security by keeping your dollars invested - a choice you made. That becomes the Amount Invested. You can change that starting as you choose or use the catch-all Earliest date. Changing the starting date changes the Amount Invested. One of the various reasons Amount Invested is odd and frequently misunderstood. From your other statements, changing the setting to earliest will likely make Amount Invested equal to cost basis.
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Changing the date in the portfolio view did not affect the amount in the "Amount Invested" column.
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From Options / Portfolio preferences…
Were you changing this date?
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That did it. It also changed the "Amount Invested" calculation to the cost basis. I was using the "As of" date in the portfolio screen to change dates. Not the most intuitive location or title for this function. Thanks for your help and sorry for being a PIA. I still wish this function would be done automatically without having to manually input the dividend amounts for each stock since the program already has the requisite data.
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The "As of" date sets the ending date for the calculations. "Show return calculations from" sets the starting date for columns that do not imply a starting date, such as YTD.
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Understand that while we have identified the current process getting to the values presented, it is basically coincidental that the Amount Invested now matches Cost Basis of your current holding. If you happen to sell 1/2 your holding, Cost basis will also halve, but Amount Invested will not change. This is not really an alternative for your desired yield determination.
Even if the previously cited idea gets implemented, that will not produce your yield on cost basis.
Any chance toward a yield on cost basis would seem to require an idea for that attracting enough supporting votes. I don’t see that happening. I don’t see broad based interest in that value.
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Thank you both for your help. I realize that we users are subject to the vagaries of software developers and the company priorities. I still don't understand the need to input data manually (annual dividend amount per share) when this information is already provided when stock quotes and news is downloaded. Seems like a good compromise would be something similar to the tax planner function in which you have the option to use quicken data, or your own data which is input manually.
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Seems like a good compromise would be something similar to the tax planner function in which you have the option to use quicken data, or your own data which is input manually.
As I said in my first comment on this issue, if you think Quicken should make changes in this area, please comment and vote on this Idea post
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I still don't understand the need to input data manually (annual dividend amount per share) when this information is already provided when stock quotes and news is downloaded.
My personal unsubstantiated opinion is the the root of this dates back to when Quicken only imported prices, no other data, and maybe even before that. 30+ years ago, they created the field as user input because that was the only available source of that input.
Some years later when downloaded data became available, they faced the issue of overriding user input or keeping the data separate. Since users’ desires surely varied, they took the easy (IMO) way out keeping data separate.
Even now, as commented on in the cited idea, there is no absolute, definitive value to use for that field and Estimated Income. They can make things better, if they think it through and get it right, but they can’t satisfy all their users.
But to repeat, that is simply my historical take on the issue, which really does not matter.
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