401k Doubling; any fixes?

Ausmithesq

For years, Quicken has messed with 401k downloads by adding a "Cash Balance" entry when there is no cash balance. It creates this entry and populates it with the identical-to-the-penny balance listed for "Securities Value" and then combines those two numbers to create a "Total Market Value" number that is double what the portfolio's value is. Deleting the "Cash" transaction is a temporary fix that is ruined with the next download. This affects people with 401ks at a wide number of institutions. There are 84 threads about this identical problem that more seasoned experts dance around with theories about what's going on, going into the data files, changing during and after download options under Edit>Preferences, etc. So many hours wasted and grief because Quicken is inserting the securities value to be the cash balance, which is patently wrong for all of these individual users at all of these institutions.

Has anyone found a solution to stop this Quicken issue permanently? Or why Quicken ignores this obvious bug?

Chris_QPW

I wouldn't call this a "wide number of institutions", the most I have heard of is about 2, whereas Fidelity being the main one.

The general workaround is to use Complete investing mode instead of Simple investment.

Basically, there are two parts to the data that is downloaded (using Direct Connect) the transactions and the "summary of balances".

For the most part Complete uses the transactions, and since it is the one that has been around since the start, it is the one that the financial institutions do a better job at getting right (but not perfect by any means). Simple mode on the other hand, uses the balances information. And Simple mode it pretty new in Quicken.

Quicken can't correct bad information from the financial institution, the financial institutions have to fix it. And frankly, I haven't seen any indication that there are enough people complaining to them about it to actually get them to work on it.

Ausmithesq

Thank you for the response — I think the actual number of posts covering this issue is in the 40s rather than the 80s. I'll see if I can edit my OP.

But without going through them all in detail, I see mention of Fidelity, Prudential, Unified Trust, and Schwab. Maybe it's just four? But we're talking about many trillions in assets. Maybe the institutions created a new problem, but it sure seems worth fixing when it's only being realized in Quicken. And fault aside, the lack of a definitive explanation from Quicken (let alone workaround) is, well, strange.

Chris_QPW

I will admit I haven't gone through all of those threads either and added them up so I can certainly be wrong about the number of financial institutions. And to add to the confusion it isn't always all the account types. For instance, for Fidelity it is only the 401K accounts.

Schwab and others might actually "be different". With Direct Connect one can look at the OFX log and see the balances in the download data and clearly point out that data is wrong, and since the communication is between Quicken (the program) and the financial institution there isn't any doubt of where the problem is. Schwab is a bit different being Express Web Connect +, but in that case I would expect all Express Web Connect + financial institutions/account types to have the problem since nothing would change on all the way to the financial institution. The main difference between Express Web Connect and Express Web Connect + is that the connection between Intuit (Quicken Inc's aggregator) and the financial institution in Express Web Connect they are using various methods to get the data, but in Express Web Connect + they are using a standardized protocol called FDX and so there should be a fixed field for each piece of data.

And yes, it is pretty frustrating that Quicken Inc doesn't explain things better, but in fact they are just middle men in this for Express Web Connect and Express Web Connect +:

The data flow is:

Quicken (the program) ←> Quicken servers (Sync to Quicken Cloud dataset) ←> Intuit servers ←> financial institution

Most of the time the customers know when something is broken or fixed before Quicken Inc does.

dpm1028

This issue is still happening, and I am using Simple Mode.

spickington

So I have this issue also, in simple and complete view. I adjust the cash balance and then I update the cash balance is back. The fact that "enough people" are not complain is a false statement. There are 88 threads with this issue, most of them are closed and none of them have a fix. So I am now on the record as complaining, so quicken will now talk to Fidelity and straighten the data exchange out?

Quicken - it is an issue between you and Fidelity, please look at the data they are sending you and see if you can recreate the issue.

Chris_QPW

@spickington You are the first person that has said that they have the problem in Complete mode that I have seen. That shouldn't be the case. Simple and Complete mode use completely different parts of the downloaded data. The Complete use has been in place from day one and has been working for everyone that I know of. Simple mode on the other hand was just introduced a year or two ago. This when all of this "blew up".

And for the record, above I didn't say there wasn't very many complaints. There are tons of them. What I said, is that they all seemed to be for Fidelity 401K accounts, not for other financial institutions. And @Ausmithesq rightful pointed out that there are more financial institutions that have this problem.