Quicken for Windows Transaction Downloads.

JoelC

I previously connected / linked my Quicken bank accounts by logging into by bank on a browser, downloading the transactions and then importing the transactions. This meant that I had to log into my browser to download the transactions.

I was having trouble with Quicken Mobile/ Web. Quicken support had me deactivate my bank accounts and then add them through the Tools / Add Account. When I run One Step update to update only the currencies (per the below image) Quicken is automatically downloading the transactions, which I do not want!

Questions:

i) Is the different bank account transaction download behaviour because of the way (old way vs new way) the bank accounts were added / linked?

ii) If the answer to i) is yes, then why are the account transactions automatically being downloaded when I have that option (i.e., CIBC in the above diagram deselected)? What do I need to do to get Quicken to stop automatically downloading my account transactions?

iii) If the answer to i) is yes, then a) how can identify whether an account has been added the old way or been added the new way and b) how can I revert to the old way (i.e., I prefer going on-line to download the transactions)?

Thank you.

JoelC

I have done a little more digging and note:

i) Old Method → Web Connect account connections

ii) New Method → Express Web Connect connections.

The different connections DO explain the different method / treatment for downloading bank account transactions.

What is still missing are:

i) Why are the account transactions automatically being downloaded when I have that option (i.e., CIBC in the above diagram deselected)? What do I need to do to get Quicken to stop automatically downloading my account transactions?

ii) What is teh best way of changing a) Web Connect account connections → Express Web Connect connections or b) Express Web Connect account connections → Web Connect connections so that everything is consistent. Is there a method / way that is easier that deactivating the account and then re-adding the account based on the desired behaviour?

UPDATE: I figured out how to easily from a Web Connect account connections → Express Web Connect connections (other than as noted in iii) below but I still cannot figure out how to easily go from a Express Web Connect account connections → Web Connect connections. Please still answer this one!

iii) Worth also noting, I tried to add / link a USD account via teh Add / Toll but the "link" dropdown did not display the USD account? Is this a known issue for Quicken Canada (i.e., USD accounts cannot be added as Express Web Connect Accounts)!

PS. I really I would like the Express Web Connections with the deselection of downloading transactions working.

Thank you.

Chris_QPW

Lots of questions there and lots you answered for yourself, so if I am missing any let me know.

First off there is most definitely a bug where you are getting downloaded transactions without selecting them on One Step Update.

How "far down" that bug goes is bit hard to say. You mention that you were using Sync to Mobile/Web, so the first thing I would check is if "syncing is still on". This is "one bug" that has been seen. In other words, turn on Sync to Mobile/Web and see if CIBC is selected for sync. What should be happening is of course with the Sync to Mobile/Web off it shouldn't matter if any account is selected, but guess what? That has been found to happen.

Second possibility, you have Sync to Mobile/Web on, with that account selected, and again saying that both that and the downloading of the transactions are both deselected in One Step Update, so you shouldn't get any transactions, but the bug is that in fact Quicken ignores these setting in One Step Update and downloads them anyways.

Express Web Connect and Sync to Mobile/Web are joined at the hip, they are in fact using the same "sync". The only difference between the two is with Sync to Mobile/Web it syncs other things like the budget too, and it flags something that tells makes those transactions visible to the Mobile/Web apps.

In other words:

Sync to Mobile/Web:

Quicken ←> Quicken Connection Services/Quicken Cloud dataset ←> Intuit server ←> Financial institution

Mobile/Web apps talks to the Quicken Connection Services.

Express Web Connect has the exact same data flow.

Basically, all this "sharing" means that the only thing preventing this or that data showing up somewhere is probably some flags in the data or such.

If you have used Mobile/Web for any length of time you know that the transactions get downloaded periodically without you commanding that to happen. That is the Quicken Connection Services (Quicken server). As such, at any given time for new transactions that "you didn't ask for in One Step Update" might be sitting in the Quicken Cloud dataset and all that is needed is something to trigger the sync and they will appear in your data file.

Other questions. Express Web Connect can only handle one currency. For Quicken Windows US that is USD. For Quicken Windows Canadian that is CAD. This is in fact the reason that was originally given of why Mobile/Web couldn't handle multiple currencies, because they were so closely tied together.

To go from Express Web Connect to Web Connect you will have to deactivate the account from downloading transactions, and then when you import the first QFX file after that you will be asked to link it back up to the correct account in Quicken.

JoelC

@Chris_QPW , as always much thanks for the assitance noting the following:

First off there is most definitely a bug where you are getting downloaded transactions without selecting them on One Step Update.

Appreciate and good to know that there is a bug. How does one go about reporting it and getting it fixed?

How "far down" that bug goes is bit hard to say. You mention that you were using Sync to Mobile/Web, so the first thing I would check is if "syncing is still on". This is "one bug" that has been seen. In other words, turn on Sync to Mobile/Web and see if CIBC is selected for sync. What should be happening is of course with the Sync to Mobile/Web off it shouldn't matter if any account is selected, but guess what? That has been found to happen.

Second possibility, you have Sync to Mobile/Web on, with that account selected, and again saying that both that and the downloading of the transactions are both deselected in One Step Update, so you shouldn't get any transactions, but the bug is that in fact Quicken ignores these setting in One Step Update and downloads them anyways.

As to my setup it is a combination of Sync to Mobile / Web = ON with the CIBC account selected (as seen in the first image below), CIBC = Sync to Quicken Cloud = OFF (as seen in teh second image).

It is my understanding that with One Step Update configured as above the transactions should NOT be downloaded during the One Step Update process because the CIBC is turned off and the Sync to Quicken Cloud is turned off. Is my understanding correct?

Sync to Mobile/Web:

Quicken ←> Quicken Connection Services/Quicken Cloud dataset ←> Intuit server ←> Financial institution

Mobile/Web apps talks to the Quicken Connection Services.

Express Web Connect has the exact same data flow.

Basically, all this "sharing" means that the only thing preventing this or that data showing up somewhere is probably some flags in the data or such.

This is very helpful, interesting and a lot to unpack:

i) Is my understanding correct that whenever Sync to Mobile/Web is run that data from the financial institution (assuming Express Web Connection) will be transferred two the Quicken file.

ii) Is my understanding correct that (again assuming Express Web Connection) if a) Sync to Mobile / Web is run manually before One Step Update is run and b) One Step Update is then run (as configured above ) then the transactions will correctly be downloaded because step a) is creating / forcing the download?

If you have used Mobile/Web for any length of time you know that the transactions get downloaded periodically without you commanding that to happen. That is the Quicken Connection Services (Quicken server). As such, at any given time for new transactions that "you didn't ask for in One Step Update" might be sitting in the Quicken Cloud dataset and all that is needed is something to trigger the sync and they will appear in your data file.

Agreed, I have seen this happen. This is nonsensical, at least to me. Why is it designed to do this?

Other questions. Express Web Connect can only handle one currency. For Quicken Windows US that is USD. For Quicken Windows Canadian that is CAD. This is in fact the reason that was originally given of why Mobile/Web couldn't handle multiple currencies, because they were so closely tied together.

Appreciated noting I am getting hybrid result; that is, i) my USD account are syncing with Quicken Mobile but ii) my USD account transactions are not been downloaded.

To go from Express Web Connect to Web Connect you will have to deactivate the account from downloading transactions, and then when you import the first QFX file after that you will be asked to link it back up to the correct account in Quicken.

Appreciated. This is consistent with what I thought.

*****

PS. Separate and somewhat related note. I have — as you know — been digging into Quicken fairly deeply over the last month and it does seem to have more bugs than any other software that I use. It is hard to rely on a piece of software with so many bugs because it is hard / impossible to keep track of what does / does not work, consistency in operation is — at least to me — critical and key to reliability!

Chris_QPW

To report a problem. The "standard ways" are Help → Report a problem, and contacting Quicken Support.

It is my understanding that with One Step Update configured as above the transactions should NOT be downloaded during the One Step Update process because the CIBC is turned off and the Sync to Quicken Cloud is turned off. 

Is my understanding correct?

Correct, after all why have the setting if is always going to happen?

i) Is my understanding correct that whenever Sync to Mobile/Web is run that data from the financial institution (assuming Express Web Connection) will be transferred two the Quicken file.

ii) Is my understanding correct that (again assuming Express Web Connection) if a) Sync to Mobile / Web is run manually before One Step Update is run and b) One Step Update is then run (as configured above ) then the transactions will correctly be downloaded because step a) is creating / forcing the download?

Sync to Mobile/Web should only involve:

Quicken (the program) and the Quicken Connection Services/Quicken Cloud dataset. It shouldn't directly fire off a downloading of transactions from Intuit/financial institutions.

So, why will you get some transactions if you have Express Web Connect setup for an account even if you have not run One Step Update with that financial institution selected?

Because as I said The Quicken Connection Services runs periodically to download transactions from the financial institutions. Why? Think of a service like Mint, you log in and you expect to see current information without doing and update. You can force an update, but you expect not to have to do that under normal circumstances. How is that possible? Simple the server does the update periodically.

It is simply to save the user time since waiting for an "on demand" update can take some time (depending on the connection method, financial institution(s) and how many accounts have to be updated).

A bit of history up until about 2 or years ago Express Web Connect was directly to Intuit's servers. Quicken Inc said they wanted better logging and not be left out of the loop, and put their server in between, but it would also be that they could consolidate these processes. Quicken Web/Mobile always needed to be able to have their data in the Quicken Cloud dataset updated independently from the Quicken Desktop data file, for cases like if you were on vacation. So, both Quicken (the program) and the Quicken Connection Services had to know how to connect to the Intuit servers. At the same time Quicken (the program) had to know how to sync with the Quicken Connection Services. This change means that Quicken (the program) has to have one less interface.

Appreciated noting I am getting hybrid result; that is, i) my USD account are syncing with Quicken Mobile but ii) my USD account transactions are not been downloaded.

When running Quicken Windows US it will not even put a non-USD account on the list that you can select for syncing to Mobile/Web.

So, it seems that both Quicken Mac and Quicken Windows Canadian are ahead of Quicken Windows US in that regard. As for Express Web Connect actually updating non-USD (or in your case CAD) accounts, I have a feeling the bottleneck is Intuit. They have no desire to update the code for it. BTW in the past we were told that Quicken Mac's "Quicken Connect" connection type was "about the same as Express Web Connect". I have come to the conclusion that in fact it started its life (from the last total rewrite) as a spinoff of what Mint was doing (aggregation wise). So, that is probably one of the reasons that it and Express Web Connect vary in how well they perform, what they can support and such. With Quicken Connect being the better solution.

As for the reliability of Quicken. In my opinion the only way one can really use it without problems is to know what to avoid. That is the main learning curve of Quicken. What's more the features to avoid might very well be a deal breaker to any given user.

Here is a quick avoid list that I think all the SuperUsers will agree on.

1. Sync to Mobile/Web (it has been corrupting data files since the day it came out. Who gets lucky and who gets unlucky at any given time varies but is never zero. From what I can tell Quicken Mac is much better.)
2. Online Bills, especially bill payment (these are in "Quicken Bill Manager" not through Direct Connect). I believe these aren't even available to Quicken Windows Canadian so they wouldn't matter to you.
3. Express Web Connect itself. The basis of this connection type is that Intuit gets an agreement with the financial institution on how to download transactions from the financial institution's website. The problem here is there are different agreements/methods depending on and they aren't a standardized protocol. And they are using the same website login. So, changes on the website and break this. Given the sheer number of financial institutions that have to be kept up, at any given time there are several down and how long it will take for Intuit or the financial institution to get around to fixing the problem can be a very long wait. This one "can work" depends on your luck. Doesn't "corrupt" the data file. At times, though one might have to deal with "problem connections", maybe it is changing the opening balance in an account, and duplicate transactions.
4. I will also add this. For the people that are "Mint" where they basically are almost 100% passive, and the "simplified" data is just presented to them, Quicken isn't for them. You have to be active and understand what it is doing, because depending on the data it gets (not always correct) and various bugs, if you go blindly along sooner or later you will be burnt.

JoelC

@Chris_QPW , as ALWAYS, thank you for the helpful insights / responses.

To report a problem. The "standard ways" are Help → Report a problem, and contacting Quicken Support.

Problem reported. Let's see what if anything gets fixed!

Sync to Mobile/Web should only involve:

Quicken (the program) and the Quicken Connection Services/Quicken Cloud dataset. It shouldn't directly fire off a downloading of transactions from Intuit/financial institutions.

Hmmm, a little different than my initial understand so let's try this again. Please confirm / correct each for the following understandings:

i) As the "Sync to Mobile/Web" does not involve communication to the financial institution, "Sync to Mobile/Web" whether run automatically (through One Step Update) or manually (through the Sync Now command) should not download any bank transactions.

ii) As the "Sync to Mobile/Web" does not involve communication to the financial institution, the only reason / way bank transactions should (i.e., ignoring the glitch you described) be downloaded is as part of One Step Update when the financial institution [CIBC in my case] is selected / ticked.

So, why will you get some transactions if you have Express Web Connect setup for an account even if you have not run One Step Update with that financial institution selected?

Because as I said The Quicken Connection Services runs periodically to download transactions from the financial institutions. Why? Think of a service like Mint, you log in and you expect to see current information without doing and update. You can force an update, but you expect not to have to do that under normal circumstances. How is that possible? Simple the server does the update periodically.

It is simply to save the user time since waiting for an "on demand" update can take some time (depending on the connection method, financial institution(s) and how many accounts have to be updated).

Although I applaud the idea of saving the user time for the reasons you listed, I firmly believe if you build in a flag (One Step Update → Download Transactions and Balances) then the flag must work. It is extremely confusing and a major PITA when the flag does not function consistently!

So, it seems that both Quicken Mac and Quicken Windows Canadian are ahead of Quicken Windows US in that regard. As for Express Web Connect actually updating non-USD (or in your case CAD) accounts, I have a feeling the bottleneck is Intuit. They have no desire to update the code for it. BTW in the past we were told that Quicken Mac's "Quicken Connect" connection type was "about the same as Express Web Connect". I have come to the conclusion that in fact it started its life (from the last total rewrite) as a spinoff of what Mint was doing (aggregation wise). So, that is probably one of the reasons that it and Express Web Connect vary in how well they perform, what they can support and such. With Quicken Connect being the better solution.

Appreciate the clarification and explanation noting:

i) I am running Quicken Mac in parallel so can / will test Quicken Connect. I am running Quicken Mac in parallel to monitor its progress and waiting for the day [admittedly likely years away] before I can / will be able move to that platform. The foreseeable future has me relying on Quicken for Windows as it is far more advanced (and, unfortunately, far more glitchy) that Quicken for Mac.

ii) Once again, another example of Quicken needing to list / post a detailed description of bug / functional limitations / etc. OR commit to fixing these items in a timely fashion. Why, to avoid me as well as form for a) relying on something to work when it actually does not work as it should and ii) stop the user from wasting needless amount of time digging into why something does not work (i.e., the user believes that they have not configured something properly when actually the use has everything correct and teh user has wasted a lot of time trying to solve something that cannot be solved)!

As for the reliability of Quicken. In my opinion the only way one can really use it without problems is to know what to avoid. That is the main learning curve of Quicken. What's more the features to avoid might very well be a deal breaker to any given user.

As noted in my immediately preceding comment, I could not agree more AND I think Quicken should publish a list of know issues / items to avid. This is not a fun learning curve to go up (and I say is as I believe I will discover more such quirks as long as I keep digging)!

Here is a quick avoid list that I think all the SuperUsers will agree on.

Sync to Mobile/Web (it has been corrupting data files since the day it came out. Who gets lucky and who gets unlucky at any given time varies but is never zero. From what I can tell Quicken Mac is much better.)

I may / will turn this off. I very rarely enter transactions on my phone, I never connect to the web interface and it therefore seems like more problems than it is worth! 😭

Online Bills, especially bill payment (these are in "Quicken Bill Manager" not through Direct Connect). I believe these aren't even available to Quicken Windows Canadian so they wouldn't matter to you.

It is, as you note, not available in Canada and, frankly, I would never use it. I prefer paying my bills manually to make sure that everything is correct and reconciled.

Express Web Connect itself. The basis of this connection type is that Intuit gets an agreement with the financial institution on how to download transactions from the financial institution's website. The problem here is there are different agreements/methods depending on and they aren't a standardized protocol. And they are using the same website login. So, changes on the website and break this. Given the sheer number of financial institutions that have to be kept up, at any given time there are several down and how long it will take for Intuit or the financial institution to get around to fixing the problem can be a very long wait. This one "can work" depends on your luck. Doesn't "corrupt" the data file. At times, though one might have to deal with "problem connections", maybe it is changing the opening balance in an account, and duplicate transactions.

It is too buggy to be relied upon meaning I will i) monitor its behaviour this and ii) will likely deactivate all my accounts and revert to Web Connect! While Express Web Connect is great in principle, I need Quicken to operate in a fashion that is consistent / reliable meaning that unless One Step Update's "Download transactions and balances" flag work properly, Web Connect is **far preferred* over Express Web Connect!.

***

Please, do not misunderstand me in that I think Quicken is great tool (teh best out that I have found so far). I just wish that Quicken would fix the long list of bugs / quirks to make it easier and more reliable for the end user, publish a list of its known bugs / quirks (to stop the end user from wasting endless hours) and, this is the big one, fix the bugs!

Thank you!

Chris_QPW

 As the "Sync to Mobile/Web" does not involve communication to the financial institution, "Sync to Mobile/Web" whether run automatically (through One Step Update) or manually (through the Sync Now command) should not download any bank transactions.

Sync to Mobile/Web doesn't involve talking to the financial institution, but you might get new transactions, because they might have been fetched and stored in the Quicken Cloud dataset. That could happen because the Quicken Connection Services had done it at a periodic period, or because you used Mobile/Web to either enter those transactions or asked the Quicken Connection Services for an update from the financial institution.

Although I applaud the idea of saving the user time for the reasons you listed, I firmly believe if you build in a flag (One Step Update → Download Transactions and Balances) then the flag 

must work

. It is extremely confusing and a major PITA when the flag does not function consistently!

This is correct, just because the transactions are sitting in the Quicken Cloud dataset doesn't mean that they should be brought down to the Quicken Desktop data file without asking. They should only be brought down if one of these two conditions exist:

1. You have selected to download from the financial institution.
2. You have selected to sync with Mobile/Web, and the transactions have already been downloaded to the Quicken Cloud dataset by some other action.

JoelC

@Chris_QPW appreciated and thank you!

I monitor / test and share my landing point in a few days / weeks!