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How to move memo field to category field in many transactions

DoctorBrown

I have discovered a whole years worth of transactions from past years that have the category I want placed in the memo field. Is there a way to cut and paste the memo field to the category field in mass? I know I can do it by groups by filtering and sorting on the memo field. but I was hoping to find a way to do them (nearly as possible) all at once. Oh, the transactions of interest are uncategorized.

Thanks

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DoctorBrown

After analyzing this further I have a much bigger problem with my Quicken file.

The backup I have for 2020 everything is fine with only 3 transactions uncategorized. But in the 2021 backup there are now 3858 uncategorized transactions! The uncategorized transactions start from when I began using Quicken in 2000 until end of 2009. It appears that for ALL banking transactions in or before 2009 the category has been removed. For about 75% of the transaction the category has moved to the Memo field, the rest are gone!

Does anyone have any ideas about how to recover the data from the backups and incorporate the transactions back into my current file?

JoelC

@DoctorBrown do you have an old backup file that you can use to constrcuct a new file (i.e., two or more files where all transactions ar eproperly categorized)?

DoctorBrown

Yes I have backups. The latest backup I have from a date when the categories were ok is from Dec 2020. My backups from 2021 to the present have the corrupted categories. Something happened in 2021 that corrupted the Categories from 2000 to 2009. In years 2010 to present the categories are ok.

JoelC

I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether it is worth all the effort to wade through 3 year's worth ff transactions and assign them to categories. It likes depends on how much retrospective reporting you do.

The other suggestion is to name a backup every few month / year and keep it was it is needed.

DoctorBrown

That, of course, is the most logical question. I just have a desire to have one file with everything. My file also has stock and investment transactions going back to 1987 when I started acquiring stocks and investments. I started using Quicken in 2000.

After considering what you have said, I have created an Year-end-copy which contains transactions starting with Jan 1, 2010. This will become my current file, so this fixes my transactions and reports back to 2010, and I also have the Dec 2020 backup for the data before 2020, this creates an overlap between the two files of 10 years.

So this creates a valid and usable situation. I was hoping there was a way to take the 2020 backup and transfer the valid transactions and merge them into my current file. It certainly isn't worth going through each transaction and correcting them.

I do have a backup system like you suggest. That's why I have the 2020 backup. I have yearly backups back to 2007. When Q prompts for backup I keep the 5 most recent backups. Then keep the end of quarter backup, then at the end of the year keep the year end backup. I know that Q is also keeping backups so I think I'm pretty well protected.

The one issue I have, which I discovered last year, is that when you open an old backup, The auto Bill and Income reminders are still active and they add all the pending transactions into the file. I then have to go clean up the mess it leaves. So, an additional task I have to remember is to deactivate all the Bill and Income reminders in my Quarter and End of year backups.

Thank you for engaging with me on this.

JoelC

@DoctorBrown

I just have a desire to have one file with everything. My file also has stock and investment transactions going back to 1987 when I started acquiring stocks and investments. I started using Quicken in 2000.

I understand as I feel the same.

So this creates a valid and usable situation. I was hoping there was a way to take the 2020 backup and transfer the valid transactions and merge them into my current file. It certainly isn't worth going through each transaction and correcting them.

I have not tried this but I believe that there is. If you highlight all the transactions that you want (i.e., CTRL + A to get all of them) then you may be able to copy and paste them between Quicken files. I know that this works between accounts in the same file but have not tried between files. You may want to test this.

The one issue I have, which I discovered last year, is that when you open an old backup, The auto Bill and Income reminders are still active and they add all the pending transactions into the file. I then have to go clean up the mess it leaves. So, an additional task I have to remember is to deactivate all the Bill and Income reminders in my Quarter and End of year backups.

I hear your pain of it not being perfect but I seldom find mass data manipulations to be perfect, there is unfortunately always some pain. The question is , which is the least amount of pain!

DoctorBrown

(I don't know how to enter a partial quote like you did with the gray bars)

Re: Copy and Paste between files…. - Nope, Quicken doesn't seem to allow that.

Re: I hear your pain… - That certainly is true.

For most of today, I've been trying to export and import the transactions via the QIF file. That seems to be the only way to export only a portion of the Quicken QDF file. (I'm all ears if that is not true.) And as I expected, that process doesn't seem to handle correctly anything with a transfer to another account, or the -paycheck- form. If the transfer is in a -split- transaction, the portion transferring to another account is lost. [Removed - Profanity]. I have no idea if there are ways to beat this into submission.

I'm going to call Q support and get the official word that the file I've maintained for 23 years is trashed as of 2021.

Oh and BTW, Exporting as Quicken Transfer Tile (QXF) and then Importing this file to create a new file is [Removed - Profanity]. I tried it and so much was wrong in just the Accounts list balances and Net Worth, I immediately delete it.

JoelC

Grey bars!

Enter the text in the window, click on the paragraph marker to the left of the window, select quote and then select quote again! Now you know!

Nope, Quicken doesn't seem to allow that.

Too bad, it was worth a try!

I'm going to call Q support and get the official word that the file I've maintained for 23 years is trashed as of 2021.

The only other idea I can think of is to ask Quicken — or someone who is a DB expert — to do the merge "at the database level" and create the file for you that way.

The other piece of advise I will share is to ask (or work your way up to Level 3 support). I recently did this and the support was incredible.

DoctorBrown

Thank you for the suggestion on level 3 support. I'll work on that. In the past when I had an issue with a file with data going back far like this they told me they don't recommend keeping a file going this long. We'll see.

JoelC

@DoctorBrown it may / will take a little talking to getto Level but should you be able to get to them that is likely the best option unless you can find a data base expert to do the work for you.

In the past when I had an issue with a file with data going back far like this they told me they don't recommend keeping a file going this long.

I do not understand this, is the not the entire point of Quicken.

I started using Quicken in 1995 and had a data file that had all my data since then. It was great because I could search all transactions for cost of items, the receipts (yes, I "attach" important receipts), accurately report on invstments, etc.

In 2016 I decided to start anew because I wanted consistency in the classification ,recording, tracking, etc, of transactions (i.e., the data entry for the 1990s and 200s was no longer granular enough for my needs and had grown disorganized over time).

It is / was possible to start new Quicken files (as we obviously did the we first started using Quicken) but I think frequently starting new Quicken files is:

i) a lot of work (i.e., account setup, category creation, data entry for investment accounts, etc.); and

ii) loss of historical reporting capabilities (albeit they exist in older Quicken files).

It is for this very reason that on 2024 (this year) when I decided to fully leverage Quicken Business capabilities that I opted to keep the same data file (i.e., I have one file and use it knowing that pre-2024 my business was tracked using METHOD A and post-2023 my business will be tracked using METHD B).

While it is possible that I will one day create a new Quicken file, it will not be until there is a real need or I have lots of time on my hands as it is a big project!

Just my $0.02!

DoctorBrown

Well, I just got off the phone with Quicken and I am not a happy camper. Essentially I was told that there is no way to copy the data from a 2020 (older) restored backup into the current QDF file. And when I tried to escalate the issue he said there is no one to which he could escalate. I guess I didn't use the correct language..😣😕

He did show me a way to create a reasonable file that starts at 1/1/2010 without all the left over transfer transactions showing up for prior years. BTW, I have my user files (the junctions listed under This PC) redirected to the D:/ partition of my main drive and he said they recommend that the QDF only file reside on the C:/ drive. Right….

JoelC

@DoctorBrown , I am sorry to read that you were unsuccessful.

I have one other idea. Reach out to @Chris_QPW who has worked with the Quicken databases outside of Quicken. There is a chance he may be able to help.

Good luck!

DoctorBrown

Thank you, I will reach out.

Just to add another chapter. I ran into a hard limit with the error: Exceeded the Maximum Datasets. if I have this correct, there's a Quicken limit on how many times you can copy a copy of a QDF file. I'm trying some additional techniques. I'll fill you in if you think it might be helpful to you or other forum users.

Rocket J Squirrel

@DoctorBrown

I ran into a hard limit with the error: Exceeded the Maximum Datasets.

This requires a chat or call to Quicken Support. There is no other remedy. We believe it is caused by restoring too many backups. Each restore creates a dataset.

DoctorBrown

Yes, I was on with Support Chat (phone support closed on weekends) for an hour and he detailed that for me and said I could backup and overwrite the original file would fix it. If it doesn't work, I'm really going to need @Chris_QPW 's help.😥

JoelC

Just to add another chapter. I ran into a hard limit with the error: Exceeded the Maximum Datasets. if I have this correct, there's a Quicken limit on how many times you can copy a copy of a QDF file. I'm trying some additional techniques. I'll fill you in if you think it might be helpful to you or other forum users.

I never heard of that of the fix that you mentioned! Thanks for sharing.

DoctorBrown

if I have this correct, there's a Quicken limit on how many times you can copy a copy of a QDF file.

I finally have a real answer to the Exceeded Maximum number of Datasets error! Now this is only one reason for the message. There may be others.

Every time you open a new file (whenever you don't overwrite the current file). Quick wants to sync with the online account. Even if you chose to not sync the data, that file name is registered in your online account. There is a maximum number of 'datasets' or files registered on the account. When you hit that limit, boom, you get the message.

The fix for this issue is to go to Preferences > Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts. There's a link at the bottom of the Quicken Profile pane that will open a window where you can delete the unneeded datasets.

Let me know if this part of the thread from my Jan 20 post should be posted in it's own thread. I'd be glad to do it, if needed. (I'm sure I could only copy not move those comments.)

P.S. I'm not completely sure if this is the complete solution to my issue. I'm finding that files I opened while this error was occurring are still displaying the message. Even when I open the file from my backups from 2010! There still seams to be a component where Q Support needs to get involved. So, stay tuned.

JoelC

@DoctorBrown , appreciate you sharing. I just went there to delete unneeded data sets. Thank you.

DoctorBrown

Chapter 3: Another hour on the phone with Quicken Support. In my conversation, my guess was supported. The limit on the number of datasets is internal to Quicken, regardless of the number of datasets visible in your online account or in Quicken. They noted that in January I had created a large number of datasets. The said that they were giving me a one time exception, but I had to stay on the line while I fixed my data corruption issue. That, of course, is unacceptable because I have no idea how long or how many datasets I might create. After another half-hour I finally got to the place where I could again create new datasets. They weren't clear to me how much leeway I have in creating datasets. I understood that I'm back to the number I had at the beginning of January.

Again, I don't know the internals of Quicken so all I can do is go by my experience and interpretation of what happened. So, yes, if you encounter the 'Exceeded the maximum number of datasets" error in this case you must contact Quicken to get the limit changed. Be prepared to convince them that you aren't a business trying to use Quicken with many clients and you have a legitimate reason to create too many datasets.

YMMV

JoelC

@DoctorBrown, an idea!

As you know how to delete datasets can you not delete a dataset each time you create a dataset because in that way you will never hit your limit.

Comments / thoughts?

Chris_QPW

Just in case people don't realize this, this is what restore does:

Disconnects/hides the existing Quicken Cloud dataset. In the past they have stated that they can't delete the Quicken Cloud dataset without the customer's permission because of legal reasons. And yes, there is a limited number of them that they will allow on the server. So, it stays on the system and can't be accessed any more by Quicken/the user. The thought that they are doing this to prevent some kind of mass using of Quicken doesn't really ring true to me. I don't believe this is a "max dataset per Quicken Id", I believe it is per data file. It would be data files that someone would be creating to "mass use" it, not datasets.
After it restores the data file, which is nothing different than a copy, then a sync is performed to get the Quicken Desktop data file synced up with a new Quicken Cloud dataset. The "type" .QDF-backup isn't a different file type than the .QDF file. It just a "flag" to Quicken on what it should do with the file. If it is .QDF it opens it in place. If it is a .QDF-backup file it is going to copy that file from to either on top of the original .QDF file or if the user requests to a different .QDF file name.

If one wants to open an old data file and not affect the current Quicken Cloud dataset they should make a copy of the .QDF-backup file and change the type to .QDF, and then open that. This will prevent it from triggering the above Restore functionality. AND do not do ANY online activities in that data file, it is still linked by a unique Id to your current Quicken Cloud data set.

You can think of these things as the "username/link" from the Quicken Desktop data file to the Quicken Cloud dataset. Is it Quicken Windows or Quicken Mac? The Quicken Id, and finally the unique Id that is in all Quicken Desktop data files. The only way a data file gets a new unique Id is by using either File → New or using the "Create a copy or template" function in File → Copy or Backup File. This also turns off all online services to make sure that the two different data files are completely separated.

Note it "doesn't hurt" to delete the current Quicken Cloud dataset before opening a data file because the next time you do any online activity Quicken will recreate it and sync whatever information it needs to for the services that you have turned on, but "doesn't hurt" really only applies to people that don't use much in the Quicken Cloud dataset. For instance, I believe the first sync to Mobile/Web is two years of data, but as time goes on it doesn't remove old data, so someone could have more than two years of data visible on Mobile/Web and that would be cut down to two years. And I think Online Bills would be affected too.

DoctorBrown

The thought that they are doing this to prevent some kind of mass using of Quicken doesn't really ring true to me.

You are likely correct. All I know is they were genuinely concerned about why I was creating that many datasets and initially refused to reduce the number in my account. When I was on the phone, they specifically asked if I was running a business with clients. So what does that mean? What is the reason for this hard limit?

I am no Quicken expert, and certainly have less knowledge then many people here. So it's not surprising that my interpretations may be in error.

My confusion is still, what constitutes a 'dataset' and why, as a normal user, do I care if I've created a new dataset? To me, that is all invisible, especially when I never sync my data online. Apparently I should care because Quicken has a very hard limit on how many you can create.

Chris, you've described some operations that pertain to it, but it's still unclear. What save/copy/backup/restore/sync operations retain the same 'dataset' and which ones create a new one. How do I know when it has created a new dataset? What rename actions, if any, trigger a new dataset? These results are all invisible to me and I've seen indications that these affect how many dataset set I have registered with Quicken.

Over the last month, I've been trying to recover from lost categories. I was using Backup/Restore/Copy/Rename operations with my collection of QDF files and QDF-backup files to try and find the ones that have the data that I might be able to merge into my current file. I've been creating copies and backups of my current file so I make sure I don't corrupt my main data file. And I've been using Export/Import operations (flawed as these are) to repeatedly try to merge the transactions from one file to the next. And have been stripping out data that is interfering with the Imports and saving these as intermediate files (creating a dataset?). These operations, unbeknownst to me, have created a large number of 'datasets' that Quicken knows about even though I never enable sync to the web on any of them. Then I hit the 'Exceeded Maximum Dataset' which put me dead in the water.

So, I'm just looking for a path forward to recover from a data corruptions that I feel was caused by the migration process over the years as my file moved from version to version. And this corruptions was unknown to me until years after it happened. And my last long phone call with support got me the leeway to do that (I hope).

DoctorBrown

As you know how to delete datasets can you not delete a dataset each time you create a dataset because in that way you will never hit your limit.

As you see in my previous post it is unclear what qualifies as a 'new dataset' from the user's perspective. This is my understanding, if you have multiple entries in the Preferences > Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts, then click the 'Cloud accounts associated with this Quicken ID (13)' then each one is a 'dataset'. If you delete one from this screen, Quicken still counts it against the limit. So even if you have only one, you may still have datasets counted by Quicken.

I've never looked at that list. But when I did while on the phone with support, I saw filenames that were created years ago. And many were just temp files I created as tests. As one of the steps to reset the Maximum Datasets was to delete them, but that didn't do anything. I still got the Exceeded… msg when I tried to create a new file.

So someone with more in depth knowledge will have to explain it to me.

Chris_QPW

You may be correct, but when I was on the phone, they specifically asked if I was running a business with clients. So what does that mean? They were genuinely concerned about why I was creating that many datasets and initially refused to reduce the number in my account. What is the reason for this hard limit?

The one thing I can be sure about is that Quicken Inc (and Intuit before them) love to hide what how they do things and why. So, because at one point I hear feedback that they claim it is "legal reasons" and at another it is "misuse of the product", I'm perfectly willing to accept that the truth is that it could be either or neither, …

Ever since Quicken 2014 there has been an "Id" started out as an Intuit Id and then changed to a Quicken Id. Its basic purpose is to connect the data file to information stored on the server. Over time what is stored in on the server has increased. The "storage" on the server is known as the "Quicken Cloud dataset". What gets stored there varies based on what services you use. For instance, turning on Sync to Mobile/Web will cause Quicken to sync two years of transactions for each account set to sync, plus your budgets, plus the memorized payees, and maybe more. If you use Express Web Connect or Express Web Connect+ your transactions that you download are stored there too. Online Bills seems to use this too.

In general, Quicken Inc doesn't state what exactly is stored there, or how the syncing and such works, so one has to just observed that happens in different situations and listen to what they will say to get as best a picture as possible.

Whenever you have two sets of data that are linked together there has to be a way to keep them in sync. It is bad enough just to figure out how to sync "current data", but when you throw in the fact that someone might pull up some really old copy of part of that data (the Quicken Cloud data file), and a sync between it and a current version of the other data (Quicken Cloud dataset) then it gets extremely hard to make sure they work properly.

So, as time has gone on this has become more and more of a problem, they have taken steps to change how Restore, and copy work to try to work around the most common problems.

Let me give an example:

In the Quicken Desktop data file I create a new account and download transactions for it using Express Web Connect.

So, in the Quicken Desktop data file there is the account and transactions, that account and the transactions also now exist in the Quicken Cloud dataset.

Now I open an old version of the Quicken Desktop data file that was created before I created that account.

So, now I have a Quicken Desktop data file without that account, but the account is still in the Quicken Cloud dataset because just opening the old data file doesn't "sync/tell it to do anything with the Quicken Cloud dataset", at least not until you do some kind of online operation. Now what is the "right thing to do" with the account information in the Quicken Cloud dataset? If they delete it, then it will match the old data file. This is basically what Restore is now doing, but for some reason they aren't just deleting the dataset they are just disconnecting/hiding it. This also what you said you were doing deleting it before you open the old data file (but before they can disconnect/hide it). Deleting before is probably the "safest" and won't cause the buildup datasets that they disconnect/hide. But it also means that the "current state" that the Quicken Cloud dataset was in before you opened the old data file will be lost. If you were a person that relies on Online Bills, or Sync to Mobile/Web this might cause you to have reconnect/fix these. If one was to only open the old data file/not do a Restore/not delete the Quicken Cloud dataset, and not do anything online, then while in the old data file, you could then open the new/current data file both it and the Quicken Cloud dataset hadn't been changed you could go on without any problems.

I'm sorry for all the complexity in these posts, and perfectly understand if you don't understand it, but I didn't create this complexity, Quicken Inc (and Intuit before them) did.

I guess the best advice I can give for your situation is keep doing what you are doing with deleting the Quicken Cloud dataset before restoring the old data file (and you should do it before opening your current data file), because clearly you aren't using the services like Online Bills that might be mess up with this procedure. And the rest should automatically rebuild for the online features you do use.

Chris_QPW

Let me see if I can clear up a bit of what is a "new dataset", at least the ones you can see. As I said before if you do a Restore, Quicken is going to hide/disconnect the current one connected to your data file. You will not be able to see that disconnected/hidden one on your list. If you could, you could have just deleted it without calling Quicken Support.

So, what creates a new dataset other than Restore?

When you create a new data file, it will get a new dataset created on the server.

So, say I create data file TestSync, I will have TestSync.QDF and the "Cloud Account Name" TestSync (that is the dataset that was created on the server. Now notice that now where in Quicken is there a "Delete data file" menu option. So, I go and use Windows File Explorer and delete TestSync.QDF. What causes the "TestSync" dataset to be deleted? The answer is nothing. That is why you had tons of datasets from the past in the list before you cleaned them up.

This data set will still be on your list in Quicken and you can clean it up as you have done. This is the reason I wonder about their explanation about cleaning up the ones the Restore disconnected/hid. Anyone that is just creating a lot of data files, could clean up those on their own and never contact Quicken support.

JoelC

As you see in my previous post it is unclear what qualifies as a 'new dataset' from the user's perspective. This is my understanding, if you have multiple entries in the Preferences > Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts, then click the 'Cloud accounts associated with this Quicken ID (13)' then each one is a 'dataset'. If you delete one from this screen, Quicken still counts it against the limit. So even if you have only one, you may still have datasets counted by Quicken.

The bolded text makes no sense to me. How can this be? Why would this be? What am I missing?

Let me see if I can clear up a bit of what is a "new dataset", at least the ones you can see. As I said before if you do a Restore, Quicken is going to hide/disconnect the current one connected to your data file. You will not be able to see that disconnected/hidden one on your list. If you could, you could have just deleted it without calling Quicken Support.

The bolded text makes no sense to me. How can this be? Why would this be? What am I missing?

So, say I create data file TestSync, I will have TestSync.QDF and the "Cloud Account Name" TestSync (that is the dataset that was created on the server. Now notice that now where in Quicken is there a "Delete data file" menu option. So, I go and use Windows File Explorer and delete TestSync.QDF. What causes the "TestSync" dataset to be deleted? The answer is nothing. That is why you had tons of datasets from the past in the list before you cleaned them up.

The bolded text makes no sense to me. How can this be? Why would this be? What am I missing?

What would happen were one to create a new Quicken ID and transfer their licence to the new Quicken (i.e., would this create a fresh start or would the history of datasets follow)?

JoelC

@Chris_QPW appreciate the detailed explanation and knowledge sharing but (perhaps I am not reading this closely enough) I find this entirely confusing. I am totally lost as to how this works and why this works this way.

JoelC

@DoctorBrown and @Chris_QPW , I have take teh time to slowly re-read the above and share @DoctorBrown 's confusion and bewilderment.

One follow up for now to try to get a better understanding, what is a a dataset (i.e., is it a set of accounts within a file that is synced to Quicken cloud)? If I have a given data file and I change the account that I sync to Quicken cloud does the create multiple datasets?

Perhaps the better way to ask my question is, what is the difference between a Quicken file and a Quicken dataset?

DoctorBrown

@Chris_QPW, I appreciate all the time you spent and detail you provided. It explains much of what I'm seeing I'm detailed kind of guy.

This is the reason I wonder about their explanation about cleaning up the ones the Restore disconnected/hid.

I agree. when I deleted all the visible datasets. I still got the Exceeded message when I created a new file. That when I had to start beating them into submission to get them to fix my issue. That's when they questioned my motives. They were extremely reluctant to do what I asked, to purge the hidden list of datasets they had recorded.

Chris_QPW

Perhaps teh better way to ask my question is, what is teh difference between a Quicken file and a Quicken dataset?

The Quicken "file" is the .QDF file on your machine. The Quicken "dataset" data stored on the Quicken server. That is why every time I try to explain this, I keep put in the full name Quicken Cloud dataset. Cloud as in server.

Since Quicken 2014 when the first started having an "Id" that you had to log into, there has been corresponding "data storage/Quicken Cloud dataset" kept on the server for each Quicken Desktop data file (QDF file).

If you create a data file with Sync to Mobile/Web on you can view the Quicken Cloud data sets (or any data file that has Sync to Mobile/Web on):

Edit → Preferences → Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts

Based on what you see above one would think that I have two datasets, right?

In my case that is probably pretty correct, because I never use Restore. I backup my data file and when I need an older copy of it, I just use the copy, I don't do a restore.

Using Quicken's restore is how you get "hidden datasets". They will not appear above, but they certainly will count against the max that you can have. I'm not entirely sure that the max count is per Quicken Id or per Quicken Desktop data file (QDF file). My feeling is that it is per Quicken Data file because I think when this happens, I believe a person can create another data file and use that. Since all data files get a Quicken Cloud dataset, if it was a per Quicken Id limit, I would expect this to fail. But the truth is that I not seen enough information posted that I can confirm this last part and I can certainly be wrong about it.

The why Restore causes a hidden dataset is because they are only allowing linking any given Quicken Desktop data file with one Quicken Cloud dataset, no matter if this is a current copy of the Quicken Desktop data file or a very old copy of that data file. Imagine if you have a "current copy" of the Quicken Cloud dataset that is linked with a 10-year-old copy of the Quicken Desktop data file. Clearly that isn't going to work right.

If I was doing this, I might have opted to change the unique Id in the Quicken Data File that I restored, thereby creating a new unhidden Quicken Cloud dataset to go with it. But clearly, they didn't do that. They choose to hide the current one from the user (it isn't going to be on the list above) and then create a new one attached to the old data file with the same unique Id. And I will remind you that they connect the two by if you are using Window or Mac, and the Quicken Id, and that unique Id that is in each data file (which is put there when the data file is created).