Why are certain register entries not showing up in the budget?

Craig Marek

Specifically Home:Mortgage and Auto & Transport:Loan.

The category shows up in the budget, and as of today each has an entry in the register.

I also do not see future (remaining in the month) scheduled entries for these categories either.

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jacobs

Aha! Now we've gotten to the heart of the matter! The problem is that in accounting, a transaction can be either income/expense or a movement between two assets/liabilities — but it can't be both at the same time. And that's exactly what you've set up here: a transaction which is both a transfer and an expense.

In the earliest days of the modern Quicken Mac, the developers allowed such a transaction because there was no way to include transfers in a budget or an expense report. But it's bad accounting, so several years ago, the former Quicken Mac product manager said the senior executive team at Quicken had reviewed this issue and decided they needed to update Quicken to follow the proper rules of accounting. So over time, the developers built ways to optionally include transfers in reports and in budgets as if they were expenses — which they certainly feel like from a cash flow standpoint — without making them actual expenses and messing up the accounting. He said they would eventually make it impossible to make a transaction both a transfer and and expense, but that project seems to have fallen off the priority list, probably because they have to address the sticky problem of what to do with all such prior transactions users have in their data files. So you can still make a transaction which is both an expense and a transfer if you enter the fields in a particular order… and that causes the problem you've run into.

The other problem with the way you're doing it is that the 876.43 you're using as a transfer to reduce the loan account is reducing the loan account by the wrong amount. Your loan balance did not decrease by 876.43 this month, because part of the money you paid was interest. If you continue in this way, Quicken will show your loan account reaching zero, and going negative long before your loan is actually paid off. Meanwhile, your Mortgage expense also doesn't provide you the data you'd want for your taxes, which is how much mortgage interest you paid.

There are a few ways you can address this, and which way to do it depends on what you want Quicken to tell you. I'm wondering if there is a reason you didn't set up a Loan account in Quicken? It's designed so Quicken will record the same monthly payment to your mortgage company, but will calculate the changing monthly split between interest and principle so that the former is an expense and the latter is a transfer to reduce the loan account balance. And then in your budget, you would show the interest expense category and add a category for Transfers To:XYZ Loan account, so your budget reflects the cash flow view you want it to.

If there's a reason you don't want that, let us know and we can discuss other options for how to record this in Quicken. Otherwise, I'd suggest you go to Help > Quicken Help and click on the "Property and Debt" link on the left side, and then click and read through the topics on the right side for how to add a loan, enter your loan terms, etc. Once you understand how it works and set up the loan correctly, everything should be automatic each month. (You might have to make an occasional adjustment for a few cents if Quicken's calculation/rounding differs from your mortgage company.)

jacobs

@Craig Marek As I mentioned above, Quicken will do this all for you automatically if you just set up your loan. This doesn't require downloading; it just generates the monthly transaction in your checking account with a split for interest expense and a transfer to reduce the loan balance — one transaction which correctly updates both accounts. Please re-read my message above.

I think if you go to Quicken Help as I mentioned and review the pages about loans, this should all make sense and you'll see what you need to do to create the loan terms. Your loan balance doesn't decrease by the same amount each month; the principal you're paying changes each month. So your loan balance in Quicken will only be correct if you let Quicken calculate the interest/principle split for each month, or if you enter that amount manually from an amortization spreadsheet or from logging into your loan provider's website,

jacobs

Are the future transactions scheduled transactions — gray in the register — or posted transactions? If they're scheduled, they won't show up in the budget until you post them (mark as Paid).

Craig Marek

Yes the future ones are scheduled, so thanks for that.

But what about the 23 that were already sent/paid and are in the register?

jacobs

But what about the 23 that were already sent/paid and are in the register?

You'll need to provide more information for anyone to help you here. Are these transactions which are transfers from your checking account to the loan account? Do you have categories assigned to the transfer transactions; that can be a problem.

Can you share a screenshot of one or more transactions which are not showing up in your budget?

Craig Marek

Here's one.

I have a monthly reminder for a home payment that is debited by the creditor from my bank. The reminder is

When I update Quicken after the payment, the register is updated to reflect the match from the bank. The account I have to track the mortgage received the transaction (Transfer) as well. So both the register and the mortgage account are updated. This all works fine.

My last payment was posted in the register on 1/22/24 with the correct category - Home:Mortgage.

When I look in the budget, the mortgage for this month is $0 actual.

I wonder - if the amount that is posted does not equal the amount in the reminder, I get 2 transactions (same details but 1 may be a penny off). If I Skip This Instance from the reminder so it remains on the schedule, will that not reflect in the budget as having paid it? Do I need to match it to the bank transaction and manually adjust it? Not sure that makes sense as the category is the same and that's what should reflect in the budget.

jacobs

The account I have to track the mortgage received the transaction (Transfer) as well.

Can you explain this further? The transaction you show in the screenshot above shows the mortgage payment being treated as an expense to a category, Home:Mortgage. Typically, a mortgage payment from a checking account is s transaction with a split that is a transfer to the mortgage account for the principal portion and an expense to the interest category. (If there is an escrow account involved, there would be a third split line for a transfer to the escrow account.)

How did the loan account receive this transaction if it's not set up with a transfer? Do you separately download from the mortgage provider for that account? How do you separate the principal payment from the interest expense?

Craig Marek

The mortgage company debits my checking account which is updated in my register when I update Quicken. The debit transaction in Quicken is categorized as Home:Mortgage. I do not breakout interest and principle

jacobs

The account I have to track the mortgage received the transaction (Transfer) as well. So both the register and the mortgage account are updated.

The mortgage company debits my checking account which is updated in my register when I update Quicken. The debit transaction in Quicken is categorized as Home:Mortgage. I do not breakout interest and principle

I'm sorry, I'm still confused. 😉 In the first post, you said there's an account for the mortgage which receives a transfer transaction. In the second post, you say you treat your entire mortgage payment tax Home:Mortgage expense. (That could be fine for budgeting purposes, even though it's technically wrong tax accounting-wise.) So I'm trying to make sure I understand the whole picture of what transaction(s) exist before getting back to why your budget is showing zero expense (which I agree seems odd). What transaction is showing up in the mortgage account? Is it a transfer from your checking account, or do you just use the category called "Transfer"? How does the transaction in the mortgage account reflect the changing monthly value for just the principal reduction if you don't break out interest and principle?

Craig Marek

The category is Home:Mortgage and Transfer goes to the Mortgage account

I seem to have the same problem with my auto loan actuals not showing up in the budget - its set up similarly

jacobs

Aha! Now we've gotten to the heart of the matter! The problem is that in accounting, a transaction can be either income/expense or a movement between two assets/liabilities — but it can't be both at the same time. And that's exactly what you've set up here: a transaction which is both a transfer and an expense.

In the earliest days of the modern Quicken Mac, the developers allowed such a transaction because there was no way to include transfers in a budget or an expense report. But it's bad accounting, so several years ago, the former Quicken Mac product manager said the senior executive team at Quicken had reviewed this issue and decided they needed to update Quicken to follow the proper rules of accounting. So over time, the developers built ways to optionally include transfers in reports and in budgets as if they were expenses — which they certainly feel like from a cash flow standpoint — without making them actual expenses and messing up the accounting. He said they would eventually make it impossible to make a transaction both a transfer and and expense, but that project seems to have fallen off the priority list, probably because they have to address the sticky problem of what to do with all such prior transactions users have in their data files. So you can still make a transaction which is both an expense and a transfer if you enter the fields in a particular order… and that causes the problem you've run into.

The other problem with the way you're doing it is that the 876.43 you're using as a transfer to reduce the loan account is reducing the loan account by the wrong amount. Your loan balance did not decrease by 876.43 this month, because part of the money you paid was interest. If you continue in this way, Quicken will show your loan account reaching zero, and going negative long before your loan is actually paid off. Meanwhile, your Mortgage expense also doesn't provide you the data you'd want for your taxes, which is how much mortgage interest you paid.

There are a few ways you can address this, and which way to do it depends on what you want Quicken to tell you. I'm wondering if there is a reason you didn't set up a Loan account in Quicken? It's designed so Quicken will record the same monthly payment to your mortgage company, but will calculate the changing monthly split between interest and principle so that the former is an expense and the latter is a transfer to reduce the loan account balance. And then in your budget, you would show the interest expense category and add a category for Transfers To:XYZ Loan account, so your budget reflects the cash flow view you want it to.

If there's a reason you don't want that, let us know and we can discuss other options for how to record this in Quicken. Otherwise, I'd suggest you go to Help > Quicken Help and click on the "Property and Debt" link on the left side, and then click and read through the topics on the right side for how to add a loan, enter your loan terms, etc. Once you understand how it works and set up the loan correctly, everything should be automatic each month. (You might have to make an occasional adjustment for a few cents if Quicken's calculation/rounding differs from your mortgage company.)

Craig Marek

Wow ok by removing the transfer the mortgage appears in the budget. SUPER thanks.

Now, I do have a Debt account, type of Mortgage, which is where the transfers were going. When I remove the transfer, the transaction is no longer in the Debt/mortgage account. I do NOT have any download set up for this. From where do I populate this without it being a Transfer? The mortgage company does not offer a download into quicken

jacobs

@Craig Marek As I mentioned above, Quicken will do this all for you automatically if you just set up your loan. This doesn't require downloading; it just generates the monthly transaction in your checking account with a split for interest expense and a transfer to reduce the loan balance — one transaction which correctly updates both accounts. Please re-read my message above.

I think if you go to Quicken Help as I mentioned and review the pages about loans, this should all make sense and you'll see what you need to do to create the loan terms. Your loan balance doesn't decrease by the same amount each month; the principal you're paying changes each month. So your loan balance in Quicken will only be correct if you let Quicken calculate the interest/principle split for each month, or if you enter that amount manually from an amortization spreadsheet or from logging into your loan provider's website,