Personal or Confidential Information Stored and Shared on Quicken/Intuit Servers

QuickUserPSP

I set up some Quicken data files with EWC+ for testing. Everything was going fine until I hit this screen when I was setting up EWC+ for Wells Fargo Bank.

I got somewhat alarmed when I read the details of what was being agreed to. How can Quicken adequately assure me that this shared confidential & private information won't fall into the wrong hands? Who at Quicken, Intuit, or the call center can retrieve and see this information? Are they all authorized to see this information? I am not talking about hackers, because that is always a risk this day and age, but anyone affiliated with Quicken or Intuit, or the tech savvy Quicken user that can gain access to information unethically.

I know that shutting off sync to the Quicken cloud doesn't really stop syncing or data collection because accounts using EWC or EWC+ need the sync connection so the syncing still occurs. Do we really know what information is being collected and who has access to it?

QuickUserPSP

I have a meeting with my Wells Fargo Relationship Manager on Tuesday. I will show him this screenshot and ask him if he can find out exactly what information Wells Fargo is sharing with Quicken with an EWC+ connection.

In the meantime, rather than down vote my post, if someone on this forum has any information and is willing to share, that would be very much appreciated. I would rather be assured that my concerns are unfounded than kept wondering in silence.

I feel that each Quicken user has a right to know how their personal, confidential, and financial information is being stored, shared, and used.

Quicken has been an integral part of my financial administration and monitoring for 30 years. I am always willing to help other Quicken user with issues and best practices. I still am a champion of Quicken. But I have found that there is a lack of transparency when it comes to the Quicken Cloud, data security, and data file access, and information sharing, which is troubling.

Rocket J Squirrel

There is some info here:

https://www.quicken.com/privacy/us

QuickUserPSP

@Rocket J Squirrel thank you. That only confirms the amount of information that Quicken collects which is excessive in my opinion. If they really do collect all the information listed, what in the heck do they need it for? Quicken is not a social media platform, so what metrics or advertising analysis are they doing? Who are they sharing this information with? And, as far as I know, there is no "OPT-OUT" option available, or at least I can't find it.

The main concern I have is with Quicken, Inc. I want to be assured that no one at Quicken without a "business need to know" is accessing my personal, confidential, or financial information. In my opinion, since they collect and are responsible for large amount of personal, confidential, and financial information, they should be held to the same standards, and training, as other financial institutions are.

Rocket J Squirrel

I can't answer your questions. Perhaps you could try contacting privacy@quicken.com

QuickUserPSP

@Rocket J Squirrel - that is a good idea. Thanks. I wasn't expecting you to provide all the answers, but I appreciate the feedback and thank you for providing some good resources and information.

Chris_QPW

The big problems with all of this are those privacy statements are written by lawyers to protect Quicken Inc (and Intuit) not you.

In other words, they are going to write in as broad of scope as they think they can get away with so that by chance if Quicken Inc does collect that data they will be "protected".

And the other is that Quicken Inc and Intuit both believe is "security by hiding information" and will not state what they actually gather.

If you look at what that Wells Fargo statement claims and then look at what Quicken Inc claims, you should quickly see that they are both "lawyer statements" to cover all cases. And don't reflect on a given situation.

Let me give you some examples of why this gets complicated. Say I don't buy Quicken from Quicken Inc. Say I'm signing up for Quicken with a different email address than what I use for Chase (which is true), and I'm using Express Web Connect + with Chase. The whole point of Express Web Connect + is that they "username/password" isn't exchanged, let alone information like your phone number and address. You log into the financial institution's website and authorize Intuit to use a rotating security token to get your transactions/account balances. If any personal information is exchanged, then that is "gross misconduct" by your financial institution. But they lawyer talk say that it might happen???

OK, how about Express Web Connect? You are telling them to log in as you, as if you were logging in through a web browser. Now let's say your username is in fact your email address. Well, for sure you have just shared your email address and password. But where they get "phone number" I have no idea… Actually, I do!!! Good old 2FA.

Here is another resource you might be interested in, brought to you by the "crazy Californian government" people like to slam:

https://www.quicken.com/privacy/us/ccpa/ca

And as far as I can tell they don't actually check if you live in California or not so you can use both the "don't sale my information" and the request for them to send you all the information they have on you. I have done that, and it is a lot, but not anything "surprising" to me.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW thank you very much. Your insight is much appreciated, and I can see that you understand the ramifications of allowing a 3rd party access to your bank accounts and information. Quicken Inc. is silent and there doesn't seem to be transparency when it comes to data mining, data security, and data sharing. I am also not sure how many users are aware that they are giving Quicken/Intuit servers permission to sign into their accounts daily to gather information. It is troubling that there is no guarantee that this method is secure. It is also concerning that Quicken might be gathering personal information that is more than is required to maintain your accounts in Quicken.

Actually, I am moving to Palm Springs CA at the end of July so I will keep the link you provided handy, and thanks again for your comments.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW - I just clicked into that link you provided. This is exactly what I was looking for. It should be made available to all Quicken users no matter what state they live in.

Chris_QPW

Quicken Inc isn't "silent" they just aren't going to give you any details. From the Privacy link posted above:

Security of Your Data

Quicken takes the security of your data seriously. We use technical and administrative security measures such as, but not limited to, firewalls, encryption techniques, and authentication procedures, among others, to maintain the security of your online sessions. However, no security measures are failsafe, and we cannot guarantee the security of your personal information. Security of your data stored on your desktop or accessed other than through a Quicken online service is your responsibility. You should help protect your data by protecting your password and/or other sign-on mechanism; limiting access to your computer or device and browser; and signing off after you have finished accessing your account. 

Also, the link I gave you is in that same privacy web page:

And like I said as far as I know, they don't check for where you live. You can used both the "don't sell my information" link and the request for the information that they do have.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW - using the CCPA to opt out is not a solution for non-California residents. Quicken should have an opt out option for all Quicken users. It is not their security that I am concerned about. It is their data mining, data collection, and the amount of data they collect, which seems to be more than necessary to maintain accounts on Quicken. What is done with this information? Who has access to it? Do they sell it to 3rd parties?

Boatnmaniac

What is done with this information? Who has access to it? Do they sell it to 3rd parties?

These questions are answered in the Quicken Privacy Statement that @Chris_QPW posted above. Rather general answers but they cover the bases.

Quicken should have an opt out option for all Quicken users.

Yes, they should….if they indeed are using data that they say we can opt out of. Their Privacy Statements pretty clearly states (IMO) what they use our data for and that "Except as described in this Privacy Statement, we will not, without your permission, sell, publish or share information you entrust to us that identifies you or any person." That leaves little left, if anything, that we can conceivably opt out of so what would be the purpose of an opt out option?

There are other businesses (and the number seems to be increasing) that have taken the same business posture essentially stating that "Here is the information we have on you, how we will use it and you cannot opt out of any of this. Anything else that is not specifically stated in this privacy policy is not being done by us so there is nothing to opt out of."

There have been many discussions about this subject in this Community forum. It always ends up the same way where those that are concerned about Quicken's Privacy Policy really need to be having the discussion with Quicken. We as users can only point to the Privacy Policy and maybe help to explain it a little. But more specific questions are things we users cannot answer and they need to be directed toward Quicken. It just wouldn't be realistic, IMO, to expect that Quicken will provide much more specific information than what is already spelled out in their Privacy Policy.

And those who are opposed to Quicken's privacy policy need to make a personal decision: Either grin and bear it so they can justify continuing to use Quicken or stop using Quicken.

QuickUserPSP

@Boatnmaniac each company has policies created by their legal that are there for CYA. I put my faith in Quicken that they are being up front and honest about their business practices, but what I have personally seen from the actions of the Moderators/Admins, Quicken Support, that speak otherwise. When I ask for explanations or get an answer as to why something was done or not done, they are silent. I've been willfully lied to. When I had a catastrophic issue in the past, I was pretty much left on my own. Quicken was unusable. I contacted Quicken Support and was told that my issue was being worked on and escalated. I was issued multiple ticket numbers and contacted Quicken Support multiple times for over a month, only to learn later that the many tickets that were created where closed and nothing was currently being worked on. At that point I was beyond frustration and anger. I described my experience this in several posts that were all deleted with the explanation of "Rant".

I have contacted Quicken directly about my privacy and security concerns. I am waiting to hear back. Let's see what they come back with.

They say they will not use, share, or publish the Quicken user's information without permission, but, again, there is no way for the Quicken user to OPT-OUT, or not give Quicken permission to use the data they collect, which again seems more than they need to maintain accounts on Quicken.

Snorkle

"if this checkbox is selected" I am fairly sure that I have set up EWC+ with other banks and have left similar requests unchecked.

QuickUserPSP

@Snorkle not all banks give you the option. I have set up EWC+ with Amex and they do not give you the option to not send data to Quicken. With Wells Fargo, this is the only time I have seen where a FI gives the user an option to opt out. Can it be assumed then, that all the other FIs using EWC or EWC+ are sending this data to Quicken? That is why Quicken should have an OPT-OUT option so it can be the Quicken user's choice to have this information gathered, accessed, shared, or sold. And this opt out option should be for everyone, not just Quicken users in California.

Boatnmaniac

They say they will not use, share, or publish the Quicken user's information without permission, but, again, there is no way for the Quicken user to OPT-OUT, or not give Quicken permission to use the data they collect, which again seems more than they need to maintain accounts on Quicken.

IMO, their Privacy Policy makes it pretty clear: They have made the business decision to use the data they collect on us in the ways they described, whether or not it is to simply maintain our accounts in Quicken or for other things to support what they have decided are their business "needs" and that we cannot OPT-OUT from any of that. It does not matter what you or I or any other user wants or thinks "should be" about this matter. That was their decision to make so it is what it is.

It is our decision, then, as to whether we can/will accept…and trust…their privacy policy or not. If we choose not to then we should probably not be using Quicken because if we continue to use Quicken we are implicitly telling Quicken we agree with and trust they will comply with their Privacy Policy. They are not going to change their tune on this simply because we think there should be an OPT-OUT to any of what they have pretty much implied cannot be opted out of.

And yes they, like all businesses, document their terms and conditions to legally protect themselves. They will protect their customers only if they perceive that it will ultimately benefit the company. They certainly won't go to all that legal effort and cost simply to benefit their customers if the business has nothing to gain from it.

Please do post the response you receive back from Quicken. I would be interested in hearing about that. But I will be surprised if they provide you with any more information and detail than what they have already documented in their Privacy Statement because that could put them at legal jeopardy for possible non-compliance. And I would be very surprised if they say they will change their policy at all. But I would be very pleasantly surprised if they come back with information stating how they are complying with and validating compliance with their Privacy Statement….that would be good to know.

QuickUserPSP

@Boatnmaniac each user needs to decide for themselves what risk they are taking by allowing a company to gather, store, share, and sell their private information. I had complete trust in Quicken, but certain events had made me think otherwise. The actions or non-actions of their employees are telling. If they are serious about their security and privacy policy and compliance, they should have no hesitancy in answering questions about their policy or compliance of their policy.

Chris_QPW

@QuickUserPSP From time-to-time people believe/want the developers to respond to them directly. In every company I worked in they made sure the developers didn't directly talk to the customers. There were two main reasons for this, the first is that if they are doing that, they aren't doing what they were hired for. But the secondary and sometimes even more important aspect for the companies was that they aren't trained dealing with the customer. Some might think that is all about not telling the customer how stupid their idea is 😁, but it also is about not disclosing the wrong information, so that the company doesn't get libel to get sued for not adhering to what that employee said.

There isn't going to be anyone in Quicken Inc that is authorized to state anything outside of what their privacy statement.

As for what Quicken Inc should do about extending the same rights that people in California have, well I have two suggestions for that. One is why don't you post an Idea on this forum to that effect. And the second is maybe the other people should be pushing their leaders to actually write laws to protect them, instead believing that "government is too big". Businesses tend to do the minimum not the maximum when it comes to adhering to things like this.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW - I know all the tactics that Quicken uses. I am very astute when it comes to figuring things out or knowing when I am getting the run around. I have paid attention to the actions of some of the Quicken representatives and some Super Users. [Removed - Speculation]

Think about it. [Removed - Speculation]. Instead, users are unwittingly forced to give Quicken access to their financial information and permission to use their private and financial data.

I will still use Quicken, but in a limited capacity. I have disconnected from all online services, except for DC and WC. I will no longer use Mobile and Web. If DC is no longer an option, I will download from the FI to Quicken using WC. If that is no longer an option, I have become very good at uploading transactions using a CSV file.

Chris_QPW

I think you are living in a bit of a dream world, where everything works the way you think it should.

Quicken Inc's main goal isn't to please you, it is to make money, that is the main goal of businesses. If they can align that goal with the all the customer's desires, then that is great, and it is a win win situation. But ultimately a business decides on what they can market to turn a profit. And for that they only have to fulfill the customer needs that the customers are actually willing to pay for.

As a lot of people have pointed out, that Quicken without online services isn't much better than using a spreadsheet. Quicken Inc is very much aware of what people pay for and will continue to pay for.

Time and time again I see people say things like "I only want to pay for what I use, and it is up to Quicken Inc to bring out new features that I will used to get me to pay them more". Not only do they not seem to understand "custom" costs more than "cook cutter", not less, they somehow feel that they are the mainstream customer when in fact, clearly the online service customer is the mainstay of Quicken Inc's customers.

I bet most of Quicken Inc's costs are "fixed" and they have to pay them whether or not a given customer thinks this or that feature is worth paying for. You can't tell the mortgage company; I'm only going to pay you 75% of what I owe because I'm currently not using 25% of my house.

It isn't the customer that decides what goes into a given product, it is the business.

Clearly Quicken Inc doesn't see much return on effort for "offline" importing. And frankly neither do I, not if I was running Quicken Inc as a business.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW I am fully aware that Quicken's main focus is making money. If a capital venture purchases a product, it is to make a profit and then sell it in 5 years or so.

Yes, it might not make sense to use Quicken manually, but I invested so much time and effort in maintaining 30 years of financial data, it doesn't make sense to just dump it. There are other Super Users that use Quicken manually and I never understood why, but I do now.

My concerns are keeping my financial information and data secure as possible and not taking unnecessary risks. It has nothing to do with how much Quicken costs or paying for updates and enhancements. It seems like Quicken is using their product for data mining and collection which they do surreptitiously while offering online services. I am waiting for anyone from Quicken, or anywhere else, to tell me that this is not the case, or at least allow me to opt-out. But again, you are probably right, I might be living in a dream world.

Chris_QPW

Have you ever been able to get an employee of any company tell you more about how they use your data than what is in the company's official statements? If so, I'm sure that company would like to know and reprimand/fire that employee.

And I look at the situation differently than you do, but maybe it doesn't even matter to your way of thinking. I don't believe that Quicken Inc is offering online services to then turn around and sell that data. They provide the online services because that is core to most of their customers even paying for Quicken. I don't know if they are selling the anonymous data, note they said they "may do it" they didn't state they "do it", but to me if they are doing it, it is because it is secondary source of revenue that they are just not going to pass up.

In this day and age if I worried about all the anonymous data people are collecting on me, I would have to live in a tin foil box with zero connections to the outside world.

mshiggins

Anyone who thinks using Quicken in manual mode is equivalent to using a spreadsheet is not taking full advantage of Quicken’s data entry features.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW the fact is they are collecting raw financial data and statements from their users' bank accounts, and it is not anonymous. The question is, what are they doing with this data? [Removed - Speculation]

Like I said before, if had not experienced the events I described in my earlier posts, I probably would have a different opinion right now. I would probably not be concerned about how Quicken is accessing and using my financial information. But this latest event combined with the others I experienced have led me to this point.

[Removed - Speculation]. What other users do is their choice, but for me, I have changed the way I use Quicken for my own security and comfort level.

Chris_QPW

@QuickUserPSP I will point out that there is difference between what the financial institutions are posting and what Quicken Inc has stated. If you look at the privacy statement you will see that they say:

We may use this anonymous, aggregated, or de-identified data and share it with third parties for our lawful business purposes.

It is the financial institutions that are saying that they are sharing phone numbers, and email address and the like. If you ask me, those are the people you should be questioning on why they need to make such a statement.

Chris_QPW

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20435966#Comment_20435966

I think that is the crux of the problem. These people aren't using the features they just want a checkbook or something. And as such, they feel that they shouldn't pay for more than that and $5 or $6 a month isn't worth it to them. So, one has to ask why did they ever upgrade? I'm guessing because they are afraid that at some time in the future their version of Quicken will stop working and they want Quicken Inc to ensure that they can buy a "like kind" (offline only, only what they need) version for the rest of their lives.

Frankly I think it is all BS, but they keep insisting that they should somehow be able to get discounts for a custom product, and that they will be a customer that doesn't add to Quicken Inc's revenue unless they come out with some great feature (which by their own admission isn't anything that most of the customers want, just them).

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW we are getting a bit off subject when we talk about products. But like I keep saying, I understand the business need for data and information and if the user consents, Quicken can use it how ever they feel necessary.

But, the troubling thing I have seen and personally experienced is that Quicken's actions do not necessarily match what they say, or tout. In my opinion their customer support is sub-par and doing them a disservice by their actions. The issues with their customer support and issue handing and escalation process seem ongoing at the expense of their customers. If a Quicken user complains about how Quicken support handled their issue, they are censored.

Quicken states that they have no control over the Quicken Community and don't read comments, but the moderators are Quicken employees and actively and subjectively delete comments that they deem unfavorable. They can't have it both ways. They say that the super users are not Quicken employees, but the super users are compensated by Quicken. They are given Quicken for free, which does have a monetary value. They are using the super users as employees but say that they are not Quicken employees when it shields them from liability.

Put this all together and it leaves me with an uneasy feeling about how Quicken is handling my personal and confidential information and financial data. They seem to do one thing but say another.

I don't want to get into the weeds with all this, but bottom line, I want Quicken to be able to answer my questions about how they are using my personal information and financial data, and what safeguards are in place so that it is not available to those that don't have a "business need to know". I sent them a direct request with a list of my concerns, along with this thread. I am waiting to see how they respond, if at all. With all that I personally experienced, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't respond at all, which would speak volumes.

Chris_QPW

Quicken states that they have no control over the Quicken Community and don't read comments, but the moderators are Quicken employees and actively and subjectively delete comments that they deem unfavorable. They can't have it both ways. 

I have never heard this being said. You seem to take things out of context and change them to fit your beliefs.

What has been said is that the developer/others don't monitor the community for things like you submitting bugs and such.

In other words, they have setup the systems where they want your feedback and expect you to use them. They "may" look at things in the community from time to time, as it suits them (not you). The forum is mainly for the "community of users", but they have also set aside sections for feedback (ideas)/announcements.

And they certainly have never said anything about "no control over the Quicken Community", just the opposite, they have clearly stated that they have policies that the people using the forum must conform to.

I want Quicken to be able to answer my questions about how they are using my personal information and financial data, and what safeguards are in place so that it is not available to those that don't have a "business need to know".

Then my advice is to contact Quicken Support of the "Office of the President", this isn't the right place to get that kind of question answered.

QuickUserPSP

@Chris_QPW - I have sent an e-mail directly to Quicken, Inc. I sent them a list of questions and concerns, in addition to this thread. I am waiting to hear back. Yes, I know about the "Office of the President". It is just another department of for Quicken Support. You don't actually contact the "Office of the President".

Boatnmaniac

@QuickUserPSP -

If a Quicken user complains about how Quicken support handled their issue, they are censored.

This is usually only true if/when the person posting does it in a disrespectful manner and/or uses profanity or does a lot of SHOUTING or something else that does not comply with the Guidelines we all agreed to before we were allowed to start posting here. The vast majority of posts criticizing Quicken's product and staff are not done in this manner and those posts generally remain intact, even when they put Quicken and/or the Moderators in a poor light. It's not what is said so much as it is how it is said that will result in removal of part or all of the post.

Quicken states that they have no control over the Quicken Community and don't read comments,

I don't think I've ever seen Quicken make this statement. Please let me know where this is stated because I would like to see it.

…but the moderators are Quicken employees and actively and subjectively delete comments that they deem unfavorable.

This is clearly stated in the terms and conditions for use of the Community. And it was also very clearly stated in a Moderator's reply to you last Feb. The Moderators do have their own guidelines/protocols that they are required to comply with and they have the authority to make judgement calls on what is appropriate commentary and what is not based upon those guidelines. You want to call that being "subjective"? Fine. I think it is more about using good judgement and common sense based upon the guidelines. But even if it is being subjective, we need to recognize that this is their website and they have every right to manage/control the information that is posted here. If that is intolerable to someone, then that person should be seriously reconsidering their rationale for continued posting here.

They say that the super users are not Quicken employees, but the super users are compensated by Quicken. They are given Quicken for free, which
does have a monetary value. They are using the super users as employees but say that they are not Quicken employees when it shields them from
liability.

That is a very odd definition of "compensation". Those free subscriptions are simply a small thank you gift for all that we SUs do in Community. Quicken does not direct we SUs on what to say, how to say it, how often to post, what to post, when to post….not any direction whatsoever. They have made no promise to us that we will get this every year so there is no tit-for-tat which is a key ingredient in defining what compensation is. So you think that our getting $70-$130/year in subscription value makes us employees of Quicken? Do you really think any SU would sell their soul to Quicken for that very small thank you gift of a free annual subscription? Haven't you seen the many posts by SUs that also criticize something about Quicken's product or service level? At first I was a bit offended by what you are implying here but then I started laughing that you actually think we SUs can be so easily and cheaply bought off.

QuickUserPSP

@Boatnmaniac I think we are getting too much into the weeds. I have stated my concerns many times. I have written to Quicken with my concerns with personal and confidential information and financial data handling. As you are now, I used to be a diehard fan of Quicken for many years. But after some bad experiences with Quicken Inc. I cannot trust them to handle my personal information and financial data appropriately. [Removed - Inaccurate]

Like I said in one of my earlier posts, I have a meeting with my relationship manager at Wells Fargo tomorrow. I will show him the screen print I shared in my initial post to see if he can do some investigating to confirm what information and data is given to Quicken. I think it is important for Quicken users to know what information Quicken is gleaning when they give Quicken permission to access their bank accounts.

And as I mentioned before, I may be totally wrong with what I am surmising, but then again, I am waiting for Quicken to respond to my e-mail I sent them yesterday.