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what happens to 'transfer' type transactions when the other account is brokerage (simple view)

mikestone

normally , i use the [ ] brackets in the category column of a transaction to show im moving money from 1 account to another and i can then go to the other account and see that 'matching' transaction..

however if I am tracking some brokerage accounts with 'simple' rather than 'detailed', that implies that quicken is not keeping track of individual transactions right? so what happens when i use the [ ] transfer feature in the 'other account'. ?

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Chris_QPW

Just to be clear "wipe out" was definitely not the right "term", "adjust" is the right term.

Just to demonstrate this I removed some shares and cash transactions from my "complete" account, switched to simple and then downloaded and back to complete so you can see what kind of transactions Quicken will put in for simple mode. Note my "guessing" was because I use Quicken Windows and was guessing that Quicken Mac works in the same way. So, this is a Quicken Windows example.

As you can see it first put in a MiscInc transaction to fix the missing cash, then removed some shares that had been sold, and added some shares that had been bought. It didn't touch any transactions before these entries.

And this sort of circles around to why I said that manual mode/simple would certainly be something that some people would want. Before simple mode came around there were definitely people that basically did exactly the same kind of transactions. Say they got in their quarterly 401K statement and then just put in transactions like above. In fact. Quicken Windows has an "Update Share Balance" item for just this purpose, so that the user doesn't even have to calculate the difference in shares for the transaction.

And so, this isn't really about how people enter the transactions since there are people that enter want the full history, and then just people that want to at a certain period of time want to know that value of their securities, not the details. And given that they are certainly these people, some of them might prefer the Simple mode view over the complete "register" view. In fact, I would venture to say that anyone that is tracking their investments in this way, with just updating the share and cash balances would prefer the Simple mode display over the register.

All comments

Chris_QPW

Assuming that the simple mode in Quicken Mac works the same way as in Windows The answer is on the next download it'll wipe out whatever you just did. That's the whole point of it.

Or maybe a better term would be it will do an adjustment. The way simple mode works is when you download transactions there is a summary section that has how many shares you have and the cash balance. In simple mode quicken puts in whatever adjustments are needed to line up with that summary.

The register is still there just hidden. So yes you can go in and put in transfers and cash balance adjustments or whatever you want but they aren't going to stick once the next download is done.

Some have suggested that they might want to have simple mode and a manual entry account. At least in Quicken Windows it's not quite set up to do that easily but it is an interesting suggestion.

jacobs

Some have suggested that they might want to have simple mode and a manual entry account.

I'm someone who enters transactions manually rather than connecting to the financial institution. There is minimal, if any, need for "simple" connectivity if you're entering transactions manually. I look at my monthly or quarterly statement from my brokerage institutions, enter the transactions which took place, Quicken downloads the prices of each security, and then I compare the statement with my Quicken Portfolio view as of the statement date. Of course, I recognize that the majority of Qucien users don't want to do manual transaction entry, so this is an approach that works for only a small minority of users.

Chris_QPW

I tend to agree that the people that would want simple mode and manual entry would be pretty small, but I don't really have any way to know for sure how many people fall into that group. But if you have people that want simple mode with downloading, you must have people that want it with manual entry, no different than if you have people that want complete mode, but no downloading.

mikestone

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20445111#Comment_20445111

@Chris_QPW but in the context of my question… which is really about me not wanting to lose my 'transfer' transaction in my account where i do download transactions and reconcile my account…. my reconciled transaction will not be tampered with, right?

let me give example for clariity. i have a checking acct with WF (wells fargo) that i track and reconcile in quicken and i have a brokerage account at RH(robinhood) that i track in Q with simple method . if i move $1k from RH to WF , i want to enter that transaction in the WF register with a category [RH]. this transaction isnt going to be changed by Q when it updated the RH simple view is it?

also when you say 'the register is still there just hidden', can we view it in any kind of read only mode? are you sure a register is really there… i thought simple view just means each time you connect , Q just adjusts the # of shares and cash etc. ie. it just keeps updating a simple 'snapshot' in time

thanks!

Chris_QPW

@mikestone I don't know for sure, you would have to test and see, but my guess is that your reconciled transaction in another account would be fine. I don't think the simple mode removes transactions, instead it adds transactions to adjust the share balances and cash amount.

Chris_QPW

Just to be clear "wipe out" was definitely not the right "term", "adjust" is the right term.

Chris_QPW

BTW for the downloading of Simple mode, its accuracy is only as good as the data it gets (and how accurately Quicken interprets it).

At least in Quicken Windows there are some financial institutions where for 401K kind of accounts it ends up with double the value because the cash amount is set to the total amount of the account instead of zero, like it should be.

It isn't clear to me based on the reports if this is actually a bug in Quicken Windows or that some financial institutions are sending the wrong data.

So, like downloading the transactions, nothing is 100%. I would also venture to say that anyone that believes that they can just download investment transactions and they will always be 100% correct without them ever reviewing/correcting sometimes at times, is sooner or later going to have an account that isn't correct.

EDIT: Actually, if you don't have the bug/bad data simple mode might be pretty close to 100% "automatic". And depending on the transaction type/securities you trade you can get 100% "automatic", but I have yet to see a broker that encodes every type of security transaction correctly, and on top of that there are some kinds of security transactions that can't be encoded correctly using current download protocols.