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Quicken Mac stuck on "Database Update"

Quickster

I have Quicken Classic (Deluxe) 7.8.2 and it was working fine. Then I erased the disk and installed macOS 15.1, copied my files over, installed Quicken on the clean system, copied my Quicken file over and everything worked just fine, for several days.

But then today I opened it, and it is stuck on "Database Update", saying
Quicken needs to perform a one-time update on your Quicken files. This may take several minutes; please be patient.

I have been patient for several hours and it hasn't changed status at all. Now I see in ONGOING 6/6/24 Quicken Classic for Mac - Database Update Hangs that this is a known issue, but with no resolution for three months.

Until this is resolved, what can I do in the meantime to recover and make Quicken usable again — do I need to keep waiting, cancel, force quit or something else?

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Comments

jacobs

There are a few things confusing me about what you wrote…

You said after wiping your disk, you installed macOS 15.1. Well, that's odd, because the current version of macOS is 14.6.1. If you actually installed 15.1, then that's a beta of a version which is two versions ahead of the current macOS. (Apple is testing betas of macOS 15.0 and 15.1 simultaneously; 15.0 will likely be released in September and 15.1's release date is unknown.) So that could be a source of a problem; while Quicken generally runs okay on pre-release beta versions of macOS, there are sometimes bugs which either Apple hasn't fixed, or which Quicken will need to fix before that version of macOS comes out.

Next, it's confusing that Quicken would need a database update if you were already running Quicken Mac version 7.8.2, which is the latest release. The database updates generally occur on major version updates (e.g. 7.7 to 7.8). Sometimes, but rarely, there is a database update for a minor version update (e.g. 7.8.0 to 7.8.2). I'm wondering how you installed the Quicken app after wiping your drive and re-installing your applications? Did you do a fresh download from the quicken.com website, or did you install from a backup of your Mac? I just don't know what it's updating the database to if you were previously running Quicken 7.8.2; something doesn't sound right there.

One of the Quicken moderators may have specific advice for you with the hang in the database update, but here's what I'd suggest…

You should have a backup of your Quicken data file which was created right before the database update began. You can check this by navigating to your Quicken backup folder and looking for a file named "BACKUP (Pre-Update) filename date", where the date would be today. You may also have an up-to-date backup from the last time you quit Quicken if it was in the past day or two. Verify that you have one or more of these recent backups before proceeding.

Then, Force-quit Quicken. Delete your current Quicken data file (with a timestamp from when the update was running), or at least move it to somewhere you can retrieve it if you want to (could be your desktop, or your Trash as long as you don't empty the Trash). Make a copy of the backup file you want to start from (in case you need to use it again), and double-click on that backup data file to launch Quicken. When Quicken launches, does it immediately tell you it needs to update the database again, and does it hang again? Or does it do the database update cleanly this time? Or does it not even require a database update and start right up? Verify that the version of Quicken is 7.8.2. As long as it didn't hang again, you should be good to go. If it did hang again, you might try this process again with a slightly older backup data file to see if the results are different.

If it repeatedly hangs, it could be because you're on an early beta of macOS. Or it could be a corrupted Quicken preferences file. To test the latter, try logging into a different macOS user account. (You can create a new user account to test this is macOS Settings > Users & Groups.) Try first launching Quicken, logging in, and creating a new file "from scratch". Quit Quicken and relaunch. So far so good? The next step would be to return to your regular macOS account, make a copy of the recent backup file, and move it to Users > Shared. Then go back to your test macOS account, open Users > Shared, and drag the backup data file to your desktop. Then double-click the backup file to launch Quicken. Does it need a database update? Does it launch normally? Quit and relaunch Quicken. Still okay? If it works fine in the test macOS account, but not in your regular account, that might point to a corrupted preferences file. Quit Quicken and in your regular user account navigate to /Users/your account/Library/Preferences and look for "com.quicken.Quicken.plist". Drag this file to your Desktop (so you can put it back if it doesn't solve the problem). Relaunch Quicken and see if it starts up okay this time. If so, you will have to reset some of your Quicken settings, but you should be back in business.

Quickster

Thanks for the prompt and thoughtful answer.

Yes, it I am using the beta of 15.1. But Quicken launched and worked fine with my data file initially, and I see the problems have been occurring with people with macOS GM releases for the better part of a year so I'm not sure the release version is the issue here, at least not entirely.

I downloaded the latest installer from the Quicken website; I did not restore the app or any preferences from a backup. The Quicken preferences file was created fresh after the disk was wiped, so if it got corrupted it was after the installation and use of it for a couple of days. However, today may be the first relaunch of the app since its initial launch.

I am also confused why the app is trying to upgrade the database. Before the OS upgrade I was already running the 7.8.2 application and I confirmed my data file at that time was also 7.8.2, so it should not need to have been upgraded.

I have my primary file and two backups of it: a safety copy (which is 7.8.2) that predates the OS update by a day or so, and one automatic backup (also 7.8.2), which is essentially identical to my primary file (same timestamp of yesterday, after the update, with identical contents except for the backup plist).

I'd like to give the "database update" some more time to complete just in case it is something that can resolve itself and is taking a while since I have a very large data file. I see that Quicken is still doing something and taking up an increasing amount of memory, but I can't tell if it's making its way through my db or in a repeating loop — I'll keep an eye on it and as long as it doesn't have a leak that will bring down my system I'll let it go for a while, maybe overnight.

I am not certain that your steps will solve the root problem because they are essentially the same steps I did for the initial clean installation, but I'll try them if the app doesn't straighten itself out. Thanks again.

Quickster

PROBLEM SOLVED. Quicken has completed its "database update" and I can use my file again.

What I did: I returned to my computer after it fell asleep, and when I awakened it I saw a macOS alert message that I had never seen, since it had been hidden behind other windows (I'm not sure if it was associated with Quicken, Finder or some other process, I forgot to check).

It read:
"Quicken" wants to access files managed by "iCloud Drive".

So I hit Allow, and after a couple of minutes my Quicken file finished opening.

So my observations are:

the primary cause of my issue was because after my clean install of the system I had created a new user, which by default starts out with the safest (most restrictive) privacy and security settings for disk and file access, and the popup dialog to override this displayed where I couldn't see it initially.
this had nothing to do an incompatibility between my version of Quicken and my file (since they were the same).
my file is stored in my Documents Folder on iCloud Drive, but I do not think that using iCloud is a real issue in and of itself (even if I hadn't used it I would have encountered the problem if I had not previously authorized Documents Folder).
however, iCloud Drive seems to be a new option with macOS 15 (in macOS 14 and earlier it was just Desktop Folder, Documents Folder and Downloads Folder), so this may crop up with anyone using the public beta or GM release when it comes out in the coming weeks.
I wonder if the "one-time" "Database Update" is a general description that is provided when Quicken is initializing the file and gets stuck at this point, but it's not really doing the same type of update it does when there is an actual app version update.

So going forward:

Quicken development team: perhaps on startup you can first test that the file is accessible through macOS's disk authorization API and provide an error dialog before jumping to the "Database Update" step which will fail if the user doesn't take the right action with macOS.
Quicken users: if other users experience this problem, check to see if you have a similar popup. If you don't see it, or if you selected Don't Allow, go to the computer's Settings > Privacy & Security > Files & Folders > Quicken and make sure you have enabled the disk type where your data file is stored. (I have mine on iCloud Drive, but if you're not using iCloud with macOS 15 you may have yours in Documents Folder or elsewhere and not have it selected.)

jacobs

Glad you got it sorted out. I'm still puzzled by why it needed to update your database if you had previously updated to 7.8.2, but I guess it's water under the bridge now.

my file is stored in my Documents Folder on iCloud Drive, but I do not think that using iCloud is a real issue in and of itself

Actually, that's incorrect. Placing your Quicken data file on iCloud, Dropbox, OneDrive or any cloud-based storage service is not supported and strongly discouraged. It may work fine for you for years, and then suddenly doesn't. You may run into strange behavior in Quicken, corrupted data, or even becoming locked out of your data file. I expect you're going to protest and say it's worked for you, or that it should work, and all I'm telling you is that over the act decade, I have seen user problems traced to cloud storage more times than I can recall. The way cloud storage services move blocks of a file between local storage and cloud storage is not compatible with record-based/record-locked updating to a database file like Quicken's. I (and every long-time Super User here) strongly encourage you to stop storing your data file in iCloud, lest it one day bite you at the worst possible time. 😀

I can also tell you that the developers don't read comments on this forum (except Idea topics), but your suggestion to the developers isn't really needed if users are not storing their data files on cloud storage services. But if you want to eventually reach the developers with your request, you could create a new Idea topic in the Product Idea-Quicken Mac area.

In terms of your use of iCloud, the question is whether you do this to have backups of your data offsite (a great idea) or because you share the data file on more than one Mac. For the former, there's an easy solution: keep your live data file on your local Mac, but set your Quicken Backup folder to be on iCloud. This is fully supported and should not run into problems. For the latter, you can use iCloud to move your data file between Macs when Quicken isn't running. There are a couple of approaches to this. One is to save your backup to iCloud, and always launch Quicken on either Mac by dragging the most recent backup to your local Mac and double-clicking it. I prefer a different way: which entails one more step: when finished using Quicken, quit and in the Finder do File > Compress on the data file; drag the resulting .zip file to iCloud. When you next want to use Quicken on either computer, drag the .zip file to your local Mac, double click it to un-zip it, and double-click on the data file to inside Quicken opens this data file. Once you do this a few times, I think you'll find it adds only a few seconds to using Quicken, and you can rest assured your data is safe this way. (If you want to continue to let your Mac store your Desktop and Documents folders on iCloud, I suggest creating a Quicken folder at the top level of your User folder, and storing your live data file there. This makes it easy for you to access, and it isn't saved on iCloud.)

Quickster

I'm still puzzled by why it needed to update your database if you had previously updated to 7.8.2

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't really doing that, and it was more a validation of database integrity step rather than a full-blown update.

Placing your Quicken data file on iCloud, Dropbox, OneDrive or any cloud-based storage service is not supported and strongly discouraged.

I fully expected you to say this 😆 I am well aware of the official stance on this, which is why I mentioned that detail of my setup. Your workarounds are too much of an inconvenience and would put me at greater risk of data loss than with my setup, but to each their own.

So I am willing to store my documents the way Apple supports, since I understand the technology and am not concerned about the FUD. I do take precautions just in case.

Aside from the technical considerations, I will indeed "protest" and say that it absolutely should work, because Quicken should support the host's operating system without asterisks. That is to say, the fact that Quicken hasn't validated using macOS for storing documents as Apple supports doing so for its users is laziness, or at least an unfortunate business decision. This will only become more of an issue as Apple makes iCloud Drive more integrated for its users, as it is doing with macOS 15.

jacobs

It's not so much that Quicken doesn't support Apple's operating system, nor it is "laziness". It's that moving chunks of a file between local and cloud storage is not compatible with database programs which make updates to records in tables scattered around the file, and that while a database allow to lock records or tables while certain operations are performed, a cloud storage service blows past those locks and can move something at just the wrong time.

You're clearly not the only person to do this, and it seems from the volume of problems reports we see here in the forum, it only bites a small percentage of users. It's just that when it does, it can be problematic to catastrophic (if users don't have current backups). Nor do I feel I'm spreading "FUD" either; I'm only reporting on the real problems which I've observed here in this forum from fellow Quicken users over the past decade.

I'm not intimately familiar with the detailed operations of iCloud Drive, so it's possible that Apple's implementation is better than Dropbox or OneDrive for the purposes of a database file like Quicken. For instance, if upon launch, the entire data file is downloaded to a temporary location on the local computer, and it remains there completely untouched by iCloud Drive until the program is quit and the file is closed, then I would think there shouldn't be problems.

I don't see how taking a step of compressing your data file to move it to iCloud and retrieving it each time you use Quicken would or could expose you a a risk of data loss, but as you say, to each their own! 😉 Best wishes.

Quickster

iCloud Drive is more like the second example you give. It doesn't move anything or use temporary locations or interfere with the locally stored file, it just reads the local file to sync it to the cloud when needed. (As long as you aren't writing to the same file from multiple computers at the same time, in which case it could encounter a conflict you would need to choose between.) And now the new macOS 15 also has a really helpful feature to "Keep Downloaded" so you don't have to worry about a rarely used file becoming evicted and needing to be downloaded before use, so I enabled that for my Quicken data file for an extra level of confidence.

Compressing/retrieving doesn't risk data loss, it's just annoying. I don't like to have to take time doing extra steps when not necessary. I'm at risk of data loss because Quicken doesn't have a way to do automatic backups at set intervals, it only backs up when I quit Quicken. So if I've been using Quicken for a few hours or days or a week or two, there will be no backups in this time frame. But since I have my file stored on iCloud Drive (and also backed up to Time Machine), I can never lose much at all, just the most recent transactions.

jacobs

You can simply do a manual back up at any time! You don’t need to wait until you quit Quicken, if you prefer to leave it running. (Since you’re interested in efficiency, you could even assign it a keyboard shortcut so that it takes only one keystroke. 😉)

Quickster

A manual backup is an extra activity I would have to keep in mind, and remember when it needs to be done, and then do. I prefer automation in the background for this kind of stuff, so I don't have to think about or do anything and it is just always taken care of for me so I can focus on other things.