Intermingling and Corruption of Fidelity Download Data from Different Quicken Files

allen_car

Today I had to Reset one of my Fidelity accounts, again. I decided to try something different. I followed the Support Page instructions which are linked with "See the FAQ for more information" on the "Activate One Step Update" popup. This Support page dated Aug 6, 2024 says to Authorize Each Accounts Individually which contradicts the instructions written directly on the "Activate One Step Update" popup. https://www.quicken.com/support/adding-express-web-connect-plus-accounts-quicken-windows/ I did that because repeating the same actions and expecting a different outcome is not a good plan. One of the instructions needs to be corrected.

I have attached a file with the screenshots of the different steps with comments to make things clearer.

So I ONLY selected the Brokerage account on the Manage your data page after the Quicken log-in at Fidelity. When Quicken returned to the Activate One Step Update linking page; one account was listed but it was not the Brokerage account I had selected. The account listed has NEVER been in the Quicken file I had open. It is the Trust account within another Quicken file which I had open 5 minutes earlier and also had to Reset that account. The account name displayed was EXACTLY the way Quicken displays that account name when that account is Reset within the separate Quicken Trust file. That account name is different from the name that Fidelity uses and how I name the account in the Quicken file for the Trust. The specific account name displayed had to come from the previous linking download from Fidelity to Quicken.

That should never happen!!! It appears that the data in the file used for the download linking the Fidelity account with the Quicken accounts was not INITIALIZED to NUL values before starting a new linking process. Data from the previous link was remaining in the file.

This could go unnoticed most of the time; but I used 2 Separate Quicken files and made back-to-back Resets using the 2 different Quicken files (though the same login/passwords are used at Fidelity for the Trust and my 5 accounts). I think this mixing of accounts between Quicken files has happened before but it was when I was re-linking all 5 Fidelity accounts and I did not get a screenshot to document it.

I also noticed that the log files identified by "Help / Contact Support / Log Files" are not separated for each Quicken file opened on the computer. There only appears to be a single set of log files (...AppData\Roaming\Quicken\Log) with data added each time something is logged even when different Quicken files are used.

I have been suffering through the Fidelity download problems; but luckily I have never had the corruption of account information. I have Quicken configured that I have to Accept every downloaded transaction. I have Closed all accounts (including hidden) in Quicken that are not currently holding assets or liabilities.

Quicken Classic Premier Version R64.35 Build 27.1.64.35 Windows 11, version 25H2

Download Corruption 2 Files.pdf

Chris_QPW

By any chance was the second data file a copy for the first one in the past?

Each data file has a unique Id in it that is used to decide what Quicken Cloud dataset is associated with it.

If the second file did start as a copy what method to do the copy used and when did this happen.

If using a Windows copy then you have created two data files with the same unique Id and the syncing with the Quicken Cloud dataset (which is where Sync to Mobile/Web and Express Web Connect and Express Web Connect + transactions are stored/go through) will definitely have problems like what you describe.

If you used Quicken's Copy it will create a data file with a different unique Id and disconnect all online services to make sure the connection with the old Quicken Cloud dataset is severed and a new Quicken Cloud dataset is created. This copy was changed a few years ago, so if this was done a long time ago the problem might have been lingering around for some time waiting for just the right conditions to mess up.

If you take one of the data files and using Quicken's copy command, then that should disconnect the two if that is what is happening.

allen_car

@Chris_QPW Thank you very much for evaluating what I wrote. I pay extra attention to anything you write because your knowledge shows through in your answers.

I would never consider using Windows to copy and rename a file for a different identity. I do not know enough about the background data stored in a Quicken file. I have been very strict about no co-mingling of the Trust money with my personal assets. The 2 Trust Quicken files were started in Dec. 2008 and my Quicken file was started in 1993. Even to this day, the 3 Quicken files have very different layouts (I am too lazy to fix it); so they did not come from a single parent file.

In Sept 2021 Quicken was buggy and I did a Copy & Validate on My Quicken file which disconnected all my On-line services. Sherlock set me straight as to why that occurred; using almost the same language as you. I have used the Backup function in late 2024 to return to a date before a problem on My Quicken file. I can not recall if I ever had to revert to a backup file for either of the 2 Trusts which have file sizes that are only 10% of mine (110 MB).

Your description: "If you used Quicken's Copy it will create a data file with a different unique Id and disconnect all online services to make sure the connection with the old Quicken Cloud dataset is severed and a new Quicken Cloud dataset is created. " sounds like an easy way to insure no past links are still lurking in the system. Is there anything I should be cautious about when doing the COPY to a new file name? If not, I will COPY all 3 files.

Thanks.

Chris_QPW

Well by definition you are creating new Quicken Cloud datasets which is where the the online services information is stored and as such you have to set that up again which can be a pain.

And I will note that I was just looking for an explanation of why this might happen. If you never did a copy then you should consider that train of thought not valid and as such you probably shouldn’t do the Quicken copy just because it is probably wasted work.

That leaves us back to why this happened to you at all. The big problem here is that for the most part what the Quicken servers do is a big black box to us and as such can’t really judge what can go wrong with any certainty. And what kind of corrective action can be taken.

I would certainly report it using Help → Report a problem.

allen_car

@Chris_QPW The intermingling of the different Fidelity accounts trying to mis-link in my Quicken file is REPEATABLE. I made the COPY of the Quicken files as you suggested. Everything worked correctly for 5 days; until today (Saturday). Today I had to reset 3 Fidelity accounts on 2 separate Quicken files to get the download to work.

I was resetting the 2 Fidelity accounts on the same 2 Quicken files from my initial post; and the mis-link attempt occurred again. So I Repeated the Reset/ReActivation steps a second time today and the problem repeated again. This time I made screenshots of everything and copied all the Quicken Log files. I will followup with Reporting the problem to Quicken with Help-Report a Problem and by calling them.

It is going to take someone who understands the "Big Black Box" to figure out what is happening. Because I am cautious this should not cause me a problem. Thanks for helping me learn.

Intermingling of Accounts 11-15-25.pdf

Bob@45

@allen_car I may be reading your posts wrong, but on the chance that I'm reading them correctly, I think I understand that

1. during normal operation you have no problem.
2. from time to time you need to reset or reauthorize your Fidelity accounts. Why this happens does not matter for this issue.
3. When you reset or reauthorize, Fidelity lists the accounts you need to work with, and also offers to download the Trust data you do NOT want in your quicken file.

From my experience working with several dozen FI's and multiple quicken files myself, this is a common situation. When you log into the FI website, you can see all the accounts you have access to. When you reset or reauth in quicken, the FI provides the same list.

That's not a problem in your quicken file, it's the FI (Fidelity) trying to be helpful.

What you need to do, if I'm correct, is simply flag the trust accounts as "no, do not add to quicken" when you link your active accounts to the normal quicken file. Quicken will then ignore any activity in the trust accounts; they will not be downloaded because they don't belong to this quicken file.

I do this regularly. I've not had a problem with it, as long as I correctly flag "do not link" for the accounts I want to exclude from THIS quicken file, and "link to existing" account for the accounts I want to include, and very rarely, "add" when there's really a new account.

Bob

allen_car

@Bob@45 Thanks for taking an interest.  I agree and essentially follow the same actions that you described.

In trying to write and explain my reply to you; I learned what appears to be going on.  I was WRONG in thinking that a temporary transfer file was not being truly initialized before a new link was enabled. 

I misinterpreted what was happening when Quicken offered a UNIQUE name for the Brice Trust Account in the Nickname Box of the Linking popup.  The unique account name was caused because the Quicken-Reset-Linking converts any " : " (colon) in an Fidelity account name to a " - " (dash) when it displays the name.  (Initially, I had missed that the colon had been changed to a dash on the account name received from Fidelity)  That explains why the suggested name in the Nickname Box was unique and did not exist in the Quicken File or Fidelity.  A name that did not exist at Fidelity or the user side of my Quicken file is what concerned me.  

I proved this by changing the name of the other Trust at Fidelity to "TRUST:: Marshall" (using 2 colons).  Then did a Reset on that account in its Quicken File; and the resulting name presented to be linked was "TRUST-- Marshall" (with 2 dashes).  For some reason Quicken substitutes any colon in an account name with a dash; possibly because the variable type used for this field does not allow a colon.

So my worries of corruption were unfounded.

There is still the issue that Fidelity SOMETIMES appears to ignore the accounts that are Selected from the account list during the reset.  Instead it presents the Account that was linked on a previous Reset session to be linked on the current session; even though it was not selected from the Accounts list.  Frustrating but as you stated; just Select "Don't add to Quicken".  Every time that has happened; Re-Activation of the account is then required and that fixes the linking problem in less than 2 minutes.  

I would say this is Fidelity's problem.  The Quicken Re-link window is only showing what it was transmitted by Fidelity and offering a solution to create a new Account in Quicken with the converted account name which excluded colons.  Exactly as expected.

Name Change Identified.pdf