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Q Classic Business & Personal R68.28 and/or super validate destroyed investment records

SimpleFogey

Q R67 May:

In a test file, Brokerage had 10 holdings, newly downloaded, Ameriprise Direct Connect. After download, all 10 holdings had placeholder entries as expected. Placeholders resolved by entering full histories manually for 9 of 10 holdings.

Histories entered through Resolve placeholder Enter histories or direct in register with "enter transactions" "Use cash in account for buy/sell radio button selected"

Noticed Buy / Sell transactions were not modifying cash account and transactions had N/A in Cash amt column. Verified Inv Amt and shares present in affected transactions. Updated to R58.28. No change.

Next day, called support. verified update. checked some things. Super validated. No errors. Reopened file to a disaster. Investment logs full of unneeded, inaccurate "Balance adjustment" transactions. Placeholder entries in every holding showing "0" shares in the placeholder. Transactions deleted when balance adjustments deleted.

"Report a Problem" fails reliably with "Quicken unable to send report".

All other network connectivity is working correct. Very simple, stock Windows system, simple network. Just learning pains through Tax Planner and some Schedule E stuff. Banking side was fine. Investments were a new addition, thus the test file.

Thanks in advance,

Tom

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Quicken Kristina

Hello @SimpleFogey,

Thank you for reaching out! To clarify, did these issues happen in the test file, your main file, or both?

Since the issue started after either the program update or the Super Validate, I recommend restoring a backup from before the issue started, then confirming if the issue is resolved in the newly restored file. You can restore a backup by following these steps:

Restore Quicken data

Go to File > View/Restore Backups....
Browse the Local and Online Backups tabs to find the backup file you want to restore. The Quicken backup file has the extension .QDF-Backup.
Select the file to restore and click Restore Backup.
Next, you will be given the option to overwrite the file you have open or to create a copy of the backup you're restoring.
- If you Create a copy, you will need to select a location to save the copy to, and you will also need to give the copy a unique file name. After naming the file and selecting the location, click Save, then click Yes to open the restored file.
- What does it mean to overwrite a file?: Restoring a backup file replaces your current data with the data stored on the backup. Be aware that you'll lose any changes you made since the backup was created. If you want to preserve the current file, you must rename the current file or the file you are restoring. We recommend avoiding overwriting files.

If you do not have a good manual backup to restore, you can follow the directions below to restore an automatic backup.

Restore an automatic backup

Quicken creates a copy of your data every seven days and stores five of these copies in a BACKUP folder. If the backup file you've created becomes damaged, you may be able to restore an automatic backup and save yourself the need to re-enter data.

First, check to see if automatic backups are turned on (this is on by default)

In Quicken, go to Edit > Preferences.
Under Setup on the left, choose Backup.
Make sure there is a check mark next to Automatic Backups.
- To the right of Automatic Backups, there is an Open/Change backup directory link that goes directly to your BACKUP folder - a good way of finding them fast!
- Choose to back up your Quicken data file after running Quicken X times (between 1 - 99).
- Choose how many backup data files you would like to save (between 1 - 99 copies).

Then, restore the automatic backup

Go to File > View/Restore Backups....
Select the file to restore.
Click Restore Backup.
Next, you will be given the option to overwrite the file you have open or to create a copy of the backup you're restoring.
- If you Create a copy, you will need to select a location to save the copy to, and you will also need to give the copy a unique file name. After naming the file and selecting the location, click Save, then click Yes to open the restored file.
- What does it mean to overwrite a file?: Restoring a backup file replaces your current data with the data stored on the backup. Be aware that you'll lose any changes you made since the backup was created. If you want to preserve the current file, you must rename the current file or the file you are restoring. We recommend avoiding overwriting files.

I look forward to your reply!

Jim_Harman

@SimpleFogey You have encountered an undocumented "feature" of Placeholders.

For some reason, Placeholders prevent new transactions like Div, Bought and Sold prior to the security’s Placeholder date from affecting the account’s cash balance. This shows up as N/A in the Cash Amt column of the transaction list. Quicken does this by creating a linked Cash Balance Adjustment just before the affected transaction. Deleting one of the transactions will delete them both.

To allow the cash balance to change when entering missing transactions that affect the cash balance, you must first delete all the Placeholders in the account for this security that have later dates than the transaction you are entering. You must delete the Placeholders even if they have been resolved, i.e. show zero shares. Because of this, if you have a series of Placeholders for a security and are entering missing transactions, it will be easiest to work in reverse chronological order.

Always back up your data file before changing historical transactions.

SimpleFogey

Positive progress to report: historically entered transactions can be made to use the cash account, Disruptive Balancing Adjustments can be removed without disturbing historic transactions in a fairly straightforward manner.

There are two things interacting here: From the outset, it seemed like something related to account opening date was involved. Here is what worked:

Locate two transactions created when the account is first downloaded:

date      Action   Security
<date>    Withdraw Opening Cash Balance
<date>+1  XIn      Establish Cash Balance

At least "Establish Cash Balance" MUST precede any historical transactions that you wish to utilize the cash balance.

The presence of a Placeholder for any security prevents the editing of that security's "Action" column. and I believe the presence of the N/A in the Cash Amt column. For any securities I'd completed historic entries, I simply deleted the placeholder transactions.

Finally, processing the transaction list from oldest to most recent, I deleted the disruptive balance adjustments.

The N/A in "Cash Amt" I think disappeared with the deletion of a Placeholder. The help article "Why is the Cash Amt column for an investment transaction N/A or blank? | Quicken Help" hints at the involvement of Placeholder transactions and N/A cash amounts, but I read it as applying to only the placeholder transaction itself. I think the impact is greater as described above.

"Resolving Placeholders and $0.00 Cost Basis in Quicken | Quicken" from Quicken Classic Support has the procedures to manually enter history.

I respectfully suggest that the logic behind the Cash Balance transactions listed above be examined and the assumptions behind opening balance dates questioned or at least document the required date changes in the help and support articles.

Thank you @Quicken Kristina , @Jim_Harman, for your assistance with the data file.

Thank you @The Keeper and @markus1957 for the complete uninstall / reinstall procedures. An update to the procedures [1], in the rare case an installation has applications installed to a different drive than the OS, it is always more reliable to use the system environment variables instead of hardcoded paths. These will work for any user, any OS drive, any application drive:

%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Quicken
%ProgramData%\Quicken
%AppData%\Quicken

Best Regards,

SimpleFogey

[1] Issues opening and then uninstall/reinstalling quicken - Quicken

SimpleFogey

Issue in a test file.

I never try anything new on live data.

I think Quicken, the firm, and the product are in many ways better than before. Still don't trust it farther than I could throw a fanfold printout of the code base.

Jim_Harman

@SimpleFogey I agree that the information in the two Support articles you referenced is inadequate and does not address the issue of the confusing linked "Balancing cash adjustments" that Quicken creates when you try to enter missing transactions for a security prior to the Placeholder date.

These adjustments prevent any new transactions for the affected security prior to the Placeholder date from changing to account's cash balance. The only way to get around this is to delete the Placeholder before entering any missing Bought, Sold, or other transactions that would affect the cash balance. Once the offending Placeholder(s) have been deleted, you can also delete any existing Balancing Cash adjustments related to that security.

Here is an example of this issue. I started with 51 shares of Alphabet. To demonstrate the problem, I created the 7/14 Placeholder by clicking on Enter Transactions and selecting Adjust share balance to 55 shares. Then when I try to resolve the Placeholder by entering the 2/15 Bought transaction, Quicken creates the 2/15 Balancing Cash Adjustment, preventing the cash balance from changing. If I try to delete the adjustment, it also deletes the Bought - the transactions are linked. The only way to get rid of the adjustment is to delete the Placeholder.

@Quicken Kristina could you please have the documentation team look into this longstanding cause of confusion around Placeholders? Alternatively, I have understood why these adjustments are created in the first place. Maybe you could get someone to explain the logic behind that. Thanks.

SimpleFogey

@Jim_Harman , might I ask if you'll attempt to confirm or invalidate the observation of the placement of the "Establish Cash Balance transaction", please? In my test, I'd cleared all placeholders for the affected account. Not until I redated that transaction pair was I completely successful. It was also late, I tried to do things one at a time, might have lost track.

In your test, while you forced the creation of a placeholder, it isn't mentioned whether or not the security entries you wished to modify predated or followed the "Establish Cash Balance" transaction. In your visible example, perhaps redate to 2/1/2026 and see what happens to the 1/12/2026 Buy?

I'm also modifying my workflow to manually create the account, manually enter / import historic from CSV (planned, not attempted yet) then enable download.

Thanks,

Jim_Harman

Is "Establish Cash Balance" the exact name of your transaction, and if you edit the transaction, where does that text appear?

Also when you say you cleared all the placeholders, did you delete them, or did you enter the previous transactions so that the Placeholders were for zero shares?

My test account was manually created and was entirely offline. The first transaction is an "Opening Cash Balance" with the amount that I specified when I set up the account. It looks like this:

As far as I know there is nothing special about that transaction other than that the Category is the account name in [square brackets]. That makes the cash just appear in the account, it does not come from anyplace else. Is that what you have, or is it something different?

SimpleFogey

@Jim_Harman Initially, transaction download created the pair described in post 5, corrected by *note

date      Action   Security              Description          Category

<date>    Withdraw Opening Cash Balance  Opening Cash Balance  [Roth]

<date>+1  XIn      Establish Cash Balance

* "Establish Cash Balance" appears in memo, not Security. Security & Description are blank. [Roth] is the same account, not something else that would explain external transfers.

Question: The cash management for this account is listed in investment transaction statements as a small interest-bearing money market account. There's no check writing or any access to it beyond ACH transfers between institutions. The online portfolio holdings view lists it as a "Cash" position, no further description, no separate account number. Transaction downloads, and account register view cash balance match the online portfolio view cash holding. Account is configured, Show cash in checking: No.

Historic transactions were entered using a combination of the "Enter History" from the Placeholder correction article, and the register's "Ener transactions" button. Prior to the corruption event, Quicken deleted the placeholder transactions automatically when the accumulated share totals from the history satisfied the discrepancy. After the corruption event, I deleted, via the delete button, all of the placeholders using the Investment register view.

I repeated your manual creation and got results that match yours but differ from my online account creation considerably. Deposit vs. withdrawal + Xin, blank Security. My two transactions in question were not downloaded. No "c" marks. They were created by Quicken at first download during online account creation. My manual creation test. Seems to match yours.

date    Action  Security  Description          Category
<date>  Deposit <blank>   Opening Cash Balance [Test IRA]

-SF

Jim_Harman

What exactly is the question in your last post?

Here are some additional observations which may help explain what you are seeing. I am running R65.29.

Using "Enter History" or entering the transactions manually prior to the Placeholder date does not automatically delete the Placeholder, even when the Placeholder adjustment amount has been reduced to zero. You must delete the Placeholder manually before you can delete any of the automatically-generated Balancing Cash Adjustments without deleting the associated transaction. It does adjust the Placeholder correction amount, as expected.
Editing a transaction for the affected security prior to the placeholder date also adjusts the Placeholder correction amount, and keeps the final amount the same, as expected.
Deleting a transaction for the affected security prior to a Placeholder changes the final Placeholder amount, not the correction amount. I think this is a bug.

SimpleFogey

Q Classic Personal & Business R67.10

Observed placeholder behavior is as I described, differs from your description. When the share count updates after a transaction entry that satisfies a share deficit, the screen refreshes, the count in the placeholders column at the bottom of the screen decrements and the investment register entry is gone.
#2 Agree
#3 haven't tried, no comment.

My last post had an observation and a question.

Observation: Online account creation with included transaction download resulted in observable differences in the register between offline manual account creation. I was able to replicate your offline manual account creation results.

Question: I was wondering whether the money market reporting from Ameriprise contributed to the observable difference between entries. I tried twice with manual creation, one "cash", one "Money Market", no difference for me. As I noted, it isn't a money market checking.

67.10 is working for me, and I have a workflow. The reverse chronological entry suggestion is also helpful. At this point, I'm comfortable leaving the Money Market / cash as an unresolved curiosity. I appreciate your prompt to @Quicken Kristina for documentation / program logic clarification around placeholders. Thank you.

Kind regards.

-SF