How do I show a mortgage principle payment as an expense, and also as a reduction of mort. balance?
Someone asked a similar question many years ago, but it was in relation to using the budgeting module. (I don't use that. I have a separate budget on a spreadsheet, and I also utilize cash flow budgeting, which scheduled transactions in Quicken make very easy.) I haven't been able to find a way to show the expense of a mortgage payment, but also transfer that payment as a credit toward the mortgage account balance.
I'm guessing it may not be possible, but the workaround that I've used for years was to use a separate transfer to mortgage in the split, but that would result in an equal but opposite uncategorized "negative expense." I just recently discovered that when I run the income & expense report from the dashboard, that uncategorized transaction shows up as income. Oops. I don't want that.
Quicken for Mac, latest release (Version 8.3.1).
Answers
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One way to do it would be to not set up the mortgage as a mortgage. Instead create an expense category for the principal portion of the loan payment and have the loan payment split between that and the interest category. Then for the loan itself create a liability account with a balance equal to the loan balance. Every month enter a transaction with the category "Adjustment" to lower the balance of the liability account by an amount equal to the principal portion of the payment. The Adjustment transaction won't appear as an expense so you won't be seeing it twice.
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The principal portion of your mortgage payment is NOT an expense, it's a transfer. Just as moving your wallet from one pocket to another is a transfer, not an expense.
The expense was when you originally took out the mortgage. If you count the Prin payments as expenses also, then over time you're double-counting them.
Other portions of your total mortgage payment, such as Interest, are expenses … but any Escrow payment is also a transfer.
Instead of looking at an Income & Expense report, try a "Cash Flow" report to see the money coming into and leaving your accounts.
Q user since February, 1990. DOS Version 4
Now running Quicken Windows Subscription, Business & Personal
Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP1 -
Notwithstanding the responses above, which are absolutely correct from an accounting standpoint, there is a way to include mortgage principal payments in a report as if it's an expense. The mortgage principal payment is recorded in Quicken as a transfer from your checking account to your mortgage/loan account. Transfers are usually not included in income/expense reports because (a) they are not technically expenses, and (b) the two sides of the transfer — out from one account, into a different account — cancel themselves out. So what you need to do is customize your report to include selected transfers. (For instance, you can't just include all transfers, because then a transfer to pay your credit card bill would double-count the expenses you have recorded in your credit card account.)
So I'm assuming you want to have a transaction report and/or a summary/comparison report. Click on Edit to configure your report. You need to do two things here. Click the Accounts tab, set it for Selected Accounts instead of All Accounts, and then deselect the loan account. The click the Advanced tab, and in the Transfers section, click the middle radio button for "Include selected transfers with accounts outside report". What that setting means is that you want your report to include any transfers to accounts which are not included in the report. Since you excluded the loan account, the transfer to the loan account will now show up in the report. Now, at the bottom of you report, below all the expense categories, you will see Transfer > To [mortgage account] and the amount or transactions. You can't move this up in the report to be alphabetically within your expenses, but otherwise, it should do what you want: it shows the principal payment on the report, and includes it in the bottom line total.
Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 19931 -
Thank you all for your input. You gave me a lot to think about. I'm going to have to ruminate on this a bit.
And what you said NotACPA, is something that I had thought about because normally I count purchases on credit of any kind as an expense, and then paying the bill later is simply a transfer. I bought this property seven years ago. I went to the account settings for the mortgage account and I'm pretty sure that at the time I just did it according to the prompts from Quicken. I attached a screenshot to show something I had not noticed because I never had to go back and look at it. It shows an option to convert to a liability. But the original loan simply shows as an opening balance, and not as any kind of expense category.
Anyway, like I said, I'm going to review all of the suggestions again before deciding what to do about it. I will say that since I discovered that income and expense report in the dashboard (which by default is set to a bar graph showing the current month and three previous months, along with a three month total at the bottom) to be very helpful for me as long as it's accurate. And other than this one issue, it certainly looked accurate to me. I recognized all of the expenses and I didn't notice anything missing. I keep a pretty close watch on money going in and out, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Oh, and yes, the escrow portion shows as a transfer because the expense is when insurance, etc. is paid out of it. I guess I can't have it both ways. :0)
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Another option would be to not use Quicken's automatic "I'm paying a mortgage loan" logic, but treat the (remaining?) mortgage as if it were a credit card. Create your own reminder, which includes multiple split categories, paying from your checking account the total value to 1) mortgage principle (as an expense if you want it that way), 2) mortgage interest, 3) escrow transfer to the escrow "savings" account, 4) Again the mortgage principle as a transfer against the mortgage credit/debt account, and then 5) a negative of the principle amount to "mortgage principle clearing". Since 4 and 5 cancel each other out, 1,2,3 are your normal activity, and 4,5 are used just to put data into whatever reports you want them to be in.
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@Stewart Dale Spencer If you use standard Quicken reports (like Transactions by Category, Category Summary by [period], Category Summary by [period]) instead of the Dashboard card, you can configure the report(s) as I described above to include the mortgage principal payment.
Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 19930 -
Thank you Jacobs. Yes, I have several customized quicked reports for various purposes. But that one is very convenient and because I was checking it out, I uncovered an issue I did not know I had. And also, in dealing with another issue that I recently got help with, it appears that there's a problem with my file which I've had for nine years now. I'm probably going to have to export my data and start a new file, but that will erase all my customized reports.
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