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Investments showing double what their value is

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited October 2018 in Investing (Windows)
I just bought this product and imported my investments in.  All of them show double what they are worth. I wish that was the case.  I have seen several articles on similar issues but no resolution. This happens from different brokerage accounts so I think it is Quicken.  Can anyone point me to the solution?

Comments

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited October 2018
    What Q product?  What product year?  What release?  What country?

    Compare the amount the security, shown in Q, with the amount shown at your brokerage.  Are those the same?
    Compare the unit/share price of the security, shown in Q, with what's shown at the brokerage.  Are those the same.

    In Q, there's only 2 things that contribute to the value of an investment: the number of units and the value of each unit.

    If those aren't the reasons, then report back because you've got some corruptions someplace ... either the program or the data file.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited February 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    SO, there's ONLY cash in the account? But the "Total Market Value" is 2x what it should be?
    That would seem to indicate a corrupted Q data file, SO:
    1) Take a backup (just in case), then
    2) FILE, Save a copy as , then
    3) USING THE COPY, FILE, File Operations, Validate and Repair ... being sure to check BOTH "Validate File" and "Rebuild Investing Lots" before you click OK.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited February 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    There is no cash in the account, these are 401Ks and IRAs, 529's ect. I just deleted the entry that had the cash and everything looks good now. Will have to see when I syn again if it comes back.
  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited February 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    When you were creating the account, did you assign an account balance?  And then you downloaded that same balance into the account?
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited February 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Well,when I imported it, it did ask me to provide the ending balance of each account but I didn't manually add anything.  All I did was imports. But on the accounts it ddn't ask me and ti did the same thing.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    I have a similar thing happening with QHB 2017 R4 US version.  The only thing that works is to DELETE the account and create it new and let Quicken download the transactions.  Then go through the whole process again in couple weeks when it suddenly doubles again..  Did that file rebuild fix anything?
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Did you ever think you have an incorrect security price in the price history?  

    I find it extremely difficult to believe Quicken is doubling your value.  Are you double checking the actual transactions in the register to make sure they are correct before saving them into the register...or are you having Quicken automatically enter the transactions without you reviewing them.

    How about a screen shot of the problem?  What financial institution are you downloading from?  What is the download method?

    And repeating the same problem in different threads is counter-productive and annoying.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    If there was an incorrect security price, then Quicken didn't download the transaction data correctly or interpret it correctly. I am trying to report a problem, and the gist of the replies that I'm getting seem to imply that I need to do the work of Quicken programmers to fix the problem.

    Quicken is indeed doubling my the value of my 401k. I'll have to double check the transactions next time, but if Quicken is somehow downloading duplicate transactions, why doesn't it do that every time I update? If it hasn't happened to you, you're lucky.

    Sorry, not posting a screen shot as I do not want to share account balances (even ones that are doubled).

    Financial institution is Vanguard. Contacting them to fix their system will be met with even more joy than describing the problem on this friendly forum. Or are you fingerpointing?

    What download method? Where does Quicken offer more than one download method? If I manually download transactions, then Quicken is not downloading them--my browser is.

    And where was I repeating the same problem, unless this forum likes to do double posts? Perhaps you mistook that post about my workaround on that other thread as repeating the problem. Grumpy is a very appropriate profile pic.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Most of my investments are with Vanguard.  I have ZERO problems downloading transactions from them.  I have never experienced duplicate transactions from them.

    To be clear...are you seeing duplicate transactions entered into the register...thus doubling your transaction amount?

    Or is this an incorrect calculation.

    What is your download method from Vanguard?  You should be using Direct Connect.

    Are you downloading directly from the Vanguard website and then importing that into Quicken (Web Connect)?

    Your explanation is vague, at best. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    I'll have to wait for it to double up again.  It happened yesterday, so it's running with a freshly created 401K account.

    It is using direct connect to Vanguard.  I am not downloading transactions from the web site.

    Does Quicken leave around the files it downloads, or does it delete them after ingesting them into its database?

    Hopefully this is not too vague.  ;-)
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    With Direct Connect, transactions are assigned a FITID number.  If the FITID matches a previously downloaded FITID in your Vanguard account register, Quicken will know it is a duplicate and NOT download it.

    It's as simple as that.

    I can honestly say that in the 30 years I have been using Vanguard, they are one of the best financial institutions in regards to working with Quicken.  Since the onset of automated downloading of transactions, I have had zero problems downloading transactions from Quicken.  They even get the transaction type (Buy, Sell, Reinvst, etc) correct.

    I also find Vanguard to be very knowledgable working with Quicken.  Perhaps you can contact Vanguard, ask to speak to someone in Quicken support and have them try to help.  

    Asking Quicken support is fruitless.  You'll just get someone reading from a script in India.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Just curious...are you reviewing your transactions first before accepting them into the register..or do you have Quicken set to enter transactions automatically?

    Reviewing them first is the preferred way of managing this.  IF you should have duplicates, then you can delete them prior to having them appear in the register.

    Also, if you do have duplicates, why in the world are you deleting your account and then recreating it?  Just delete the duplicate.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    A lightbulb just went on in my head :)!

    You mentioned it's a 401K account.  So, I'm assuming you are having your contributions taken out of your paycheck and then transferred to your 401K account...correct?

    So, in Quicken you have your paycheck set for your 401K contribution as a transfer to your Vanguard account?  Right?

    Then, you download the Vanguard transactions and you get "another" transaction...which you should be matching to the current transaction.  

    Or, you may have to do TWO transactions in the Vanguard 401K account...the transfer to that account resulting in a cash balance...and then a buy for the security you are purchasing from Vanguard.

    That could explain the doubling up of the amount.  

    Your Preferences should be set to this:

    image

    If you have those two boxes checked, Quicken will automatically add the transaction to the investment register without giving you the opportunity to match it...or delete it.

    Try that and see if it helps. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    My preferences for the "After downloading transactions" match yours -- the two boxes are NOT checked.

    No transfers to 401k set up with my paycheck anymore.  Only handling net, much simpler that way.  Have zero interest or desire to backfill past paychecks.

    I will have to wait and see what happens when the balance doubles again.  I don't recall getting duplicate transactions, just doubled share amounts.  It's been a while since I've done digging because deleting the account and recreating is quicker and easier than trying to track down and delete transactions (assuming that it is duplicate transactions).

    Thanks for the heads up on contacting Vanguard, they may be a better resource, but dealing with tech support bureaucracies usually takes time and I doubt their people will still be at work and I'm home from work and working on finances.

    Is there anyway I can get Quicken to show me this FITID?  And does it keep the files it downloads during Direct Connect?  It sure would be handy to compare the files downloaded from Vanguard.
  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Something you should be aware of when downloading transactions for 401(k) accounts, the downloaded transactions have a cash source that defines the type of contribution - employee, employee catch up, or employer. If you are accepting adjustments, it is quite likely your share doubling is from letting Quicken add placeholders to try to match cash source.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    So I should avoid placeholders, then?
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Good pickup Mary.

    I don't think you can avoid placeholders...you have to resolve them.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited March 2017
    calladj said:

    It is Quicken 2017 Premier. Country US.  It shows a Inv Amount, a Cash Amount, and a cash balance. All 3 numbers are the same and is the correct balance. At the bottom is shows Cash balance as the correct number and the Total Market value of double that number.

    Well that's good to know. I'm going to have to let the account just sit there until it decides to double the value again and then I'll see if it's dupe transactions (which I don't think it is), or because of placeholder entries (out to .00001 sometimes).

    I appreciate the time y'all have taken. Hope y'all had a good Saturday and that the rest of your weekend is restful and relaxing.
  • Jay Crutchfield
    Jay Crutchfield Member
    edited April 2017
    Bug in Quicken 2017 (revision 6); United States.  PC (NOT Mac).

    Opening Quicken, perform update, move to "link bills" and results in program completely closing down.  Completely reproducible.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2017

    Bug in Quicken 2017 (revision 6); United States.  PC (NOT Mac).

    Opening Quicken, perform update, move to "link bills" and results in program completely closing down.  Completely reproducible.

    And what does that have to do with "Investments showing double what their value is"?

    Please repost your problem in a new thread. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited April 2017

    Bug in Quicken 2017 (revision 6); United States.  PC (NOT Mac).

    Opening Quicken, perform update, move to "link bills" and results in program completely closing down.  Completely reproducible.

    Maybe he saw activity on this thread...

    So far so good, two weeks and no doubled account balance.  There was an update for QHB the other day, so fingers crossed.
  • I just upgraded from Quicken 2016 to 2019 (Premier) over the weekend.  I decided to connect in my and my spouse's 401k's via Fidelity.  Sure enough, it doubled the value.  When you clicked on them, it showed that securities value and cash balance were each showing the accurate amount.  Added together, they doubled.  My understanding of the accounting is limited.  I searched and only found a few postings about this.  One recommended zeroing out the cash balance....which Quicken allowed from the page it brought up when you clicked on the link and it created a placeholder entry.  That said, I'm not sure what that accomplished or why.  All I know is that the total displaying in the left column is now accurate.  I think I need to read more on how Quicken tracks your 401k. 
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quicken's "Cash Balance" is not supposed to be the total value of the account, it is the amount of cash, i.e. uninvested money in the account. When you record a contribution to a 401k, you should see the contribution in the cash balance and then some time later you should see "bought" transactions to purchase the securities you have selected. These should reduce the Cash Balance to zero.

    If that is not happening in your account, perhaps there is an "Opening Balance" transaction that is the full value of the account when it was opened and not the cash balance as described above.

    Or if you have been managing the account manually and recently started downloading, perhaps there are downloaded transactions that duplicate ones that are already in the account in Quicken.

    Also to avoid confusion, make sure Placeholder transactions that may have been created when you started downloading are visible. Go to Edit > Settings > Investing transactions and make sure Show hidden transactions is checked.

    If you post back with more details, we can probably help you straighten things out. 


    QWin Premier subscription
  • Canderson
    Canderson Member ✭✭
    I see the same thing as drunta. It is showing the same amount for cash balance and security value, then adding them together, it appears, for a total market value. My knowledge is still limited, but I don't think that's really the market value, although I wish it were. Please advise the best way to correct this? My account is with Fidelity, and I simply downloaded the statement. Not much set up involved, at least surrounding security value and cash balance. I have Quicken Deluxe R18.15. 
    Thank you for your help!
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you check for an "Opening Balance" transaction that is the full amount of the account? 

    What about my other recommendations in the post immediately above yours?
    QWin Premier subscription
This discussion has been closed.