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Fidelity Cost Basis not loaded

unknown

I just installed QWin Premier 17 and loaded all of my accounts. The investment data from my Schwab accounts came through fine, but my Fidelity accounts loaded only the totals but did not pull down any cost basis info. I looked for a way to manually edit the cost basis and didn't find any. Any suggestions?

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unknown

Enter the transactions, when they actually occurred, manually.

Good luck with that.

q_lurker

What transactions generate your holdings in the Fidelity account? Add shares and Buy shares transactions can be used to create individual lots applicable within each holding with applicable acquisition dates and cost basis data.

unknown

The account is a new account that has securities transferred from another broker. Most of the cost basis info came to Fidelity, but there are no transactions w/Fidelity other than the account opening.

mshiggins

Did you have the prior brokerage's account in your Quicken file?

unknown

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

mshiggins

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

When did you transfer the account? If the old account is still open, you could add that account to Quicken. Assuming that account provides cost basis, you could then use the Shares Transferred Between Accounts transaction to transfer the shares with cost basis and acquisition dates.

unknown

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

I switched to Fidelity because the old broker didn't support Quicken. Anyway, most of the cost basis info transferred over so the issue is not Fidelity not having it. They either didn't download it or Quicken just gets cost basis from transactions.

q_lurker

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

They either didn't download it

That is quite possible. You haven't told us what Fidelity downloaded. You have only told they downloaded "totals" or an "account opening" whatever that is. What totals? Shares? Cash? Market Value?

or Quicken just gets cost basis from transactions.

Yes, Quicken only gets its data from transactions. Fidelity might have downloaded those transactions, but it is unlikely they downloaded the cost basis with those transactions. Some brokerages might, most do not.

Your new account in Quicken with Fidelity should be initialized with a series of Add Shares transactions, each one reflecting one lot of one security - a number of shares acquired on a certain date for a certain cost basis. If those transactions did not come through from Fidelity, I suggest you generate them yourself.

unknown

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

The downloaded Fidelity transactions are just Adds for the whole lots that transferred. They have the whole lot history (it shows on their internal system) but none download in Quicken, even the most recent ones from December.

My issue is not so much with Fidelity as it is with Quicken. My original question was how can I edit the cost basis for what's there. Adding them individually without a running total makes it more likely I'll make a mistake I don't catch until I'm done. I understand in most cases allowing manual editing of cost basis is not optimal. This is one case where it would be useful, and not having that capability is annoying.

q_lurker

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

If the downloaded transactions came in as one Add Shares per security, and you need to have the lots broken out, you are going to need to delete that one transaction and add in several (as many as needed) Add Shares for each security transactions. I do not know of a easier path or one that cross-checks better.

I am not surprised by Fidelity's approach.

(I, too, would choose to keep the individual lot data. It is work up front that I would value later on.)

unknown

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

This is where I disagree because I see this kind of error all the time in development. Because the source defines the set of securities as a single lot, the program limits the action to only those appropriate for a full lot. The problem is it's not really a single lot, that's just how the unusual case was defined. As a result, i have to do extra work myself. It's better than most times I see this, where developers made a choice to limit the ability of knowledgeable users to make changes to keep non-technical users from making major mistakes, but it's still annoying.

q_lurker

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

Pull up your Quicken Help and find the OFX log data. Save it to a text file. In that data you will see that Fidelity is sending the data as one lot with no cost basis information. Quicken cannot make up data that Fidelity does not provide. For you to pontificate about lazy, incompetent programmers from your position of ignorance is uncalled for.

Disagree all you want, but that is the way it is. If you don't like it, go find something better, or write it yourself.

Done here.

unknown

No, just coming back to Quicken after many years.

You're both missing the point and proving mine. The issue is not what Fidelity sent -- it's a decision by Intuit developers to prevent customers from editing their own data, something the brokers, which have to follow IRS regs, allow. I will kludge my way to a workaround. I don't have to be happy about it.

Jim_Harman

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

Matthew Friedman

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

Jim can you explain the problem with tracking historical performance a little bit more? For my own edification, what's an example of a situation where I would NOT want the value on the add date to be the cost basis (assuming that I'm using this method to get missing lot info and cost basis info into the quicken file)

unknown

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

Simple -- the positions were opened in the past at another broker then transferred to a second broker without full cost basis information. The "add date" at the second broker is not the origination date.

NotACPA

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

Did you have the accounts at that prior broker recorded in Q?
How did you record the change to the new broker?

Because, the simple way is to just rename the Schwab account ... and keep all of the position detail in exactly the same place.

QED

unknown

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

The positions were opened in Etrade, not Schwab. As the original post stares, My Schwab data (yes I had accounts at 3 brokerages) came through fine. One of the reasons I moved them was Etrade was having issues linking with Quicken, so I couldn't download the info before I moved them.

These simple suggestions are fine for simple cases, which, as I explained in detail as the thread progressed, mine was not.

Jim_Harman

@Matthew,

Consider this example: On Jan 1 you receive a gift of 100 shares of XYZ that were purchased several years ago at $10 per share for a cost basis of $1,000. The share price on Jan 1 is $11 so the market value on Jan 1 is $1,100. on Dec 31 the share price is $12 so the market value is $1,200.

In QWin 2017 if you record an Add of the 100 shares on Jan 1 and enter the cost basis, the Investment Performance report will (incorrectly IMO) use a value on Jan 1 of $1,000 and will thus show the gain for the year at about 1200/1000 or 20% when it should be about 1200/1100 or 9.1%.

It appears that this has been fixed in QWin 2018.

Thanks, Quicken!

NotACPA

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

You haven't explained, in direct terms, what happened in the real world and what you recorded in Q.

AND, this is the first that you've mentioned eTrade ... so how was anyone supposed to know about that account?

Matthew Friedman

@Matthew,

Consider this example: On Jan 1 you receive a gift of 100 shares of XYZ that were purchased several years ago at $10 per share for a cost basis of $1,000. The share price on Jan 1 is $11 so the market value on Jan 1 is $1,100. on Dec 31 the share price is $12 so the market value is $1,200.

In QWin 2017 if you record an Add of the 100 shares on Jan 1 and enter the cost basis, the Investment Performance report will (incorrectly IMO) use a value on Jan 1 of $1,000 and will thus show the gain for the year at about 1200/1000 or 20% when it should be about 1200/1100 or 9.1%.

It appears that this has been fixed in QWin 2018.

Thanks, Quicken!

Thanks this answers my question. This scenario does not apply to me, so for my situation the bug doesn't make a difference (although I'm in 2018, so I guess it doubly does not make a difference.)

Since you explained that so clearly (and without any snark as well!!!) I'd like to ask a follow-up.

When Quicken has an account with re-invested dividends in it, how does it deal with those transactions when computing that account's performance? Do those "lots" have a cost basis of the purchase price, and then Quicken treats the dividend separately? I ask because I just had a conversation with a Fidelity rep that left me more confused than when I started.

Matthew Friedman

@Matthew,

Consider this example: On Jan 1 you receive a gift of 100 shares of XYZ that were purchased several years ago at $10 per share for a cost basis of $1,000. The share price on Jan 1 is $11 so the market value on Jan 1 is $1,100. on Dec 31 the share price is $12 so the market value is $1,200.

In QWin 2017 if you record an Add of the 100 shares on Jan 1 and enter the cost basis, the Investment Performance report will (incorrectly IMO) use a value on Jan 1 of $1,000 and will thus show the gain for the year at about 1200/1000 or 20% when it should be about 1200/1100 or 9.1%.

It appears that this has been fixed in QWin 2018.

Thanks, Quicken!

Then here's a second followup. I have an account in Quicken that has a placeholder entry that is placeholding literally 40 reinvested dividend transactions. How can I get the most accurate performance report on this security? If I go through and assign cost bases for all these transaction, then Quicken won't know that they are re-invested dividends, correct? Do I need to go through and enter all these transactions as actual reinvested Dividend transactions?

unknown

Somehow Quicken has to be told about the individual lots. Unfortunately Fidelity is not providing this information, so one way or another you must enter it. The most straightforward way is to enter an "Add - Shares Added" transaction for each lot. This gives you the opportunity to provide the purchase date and cost basis for each lot. Each lot will show up as a separate transaction in your register, so you can check for and fix any data entry errors.

This method computes capital gains correctly but unfortunately it confuses Quicken's performance tracking for periods that include the Add date. Quicken (erroneously IMO) uses the basis cost as the value on the Add date rather then the current value in its performance calculations. If you care about tracking the historical performance, a work-around for this is to create a dummy account and add the shares there, then use a "Shares Transferred Between Accounts" to get the shares into your real account.

The name of the broker is not relevant. The fact that the holdings originated from another broker aside from the two named in the original post was explained twice earlier in the thread.

Jim_Harman

@Matthew,

Consider this example: On Jan 1 you receive a gift of 100 shares of XYZ that were purchased several years ago at $10 per share for a cost basis of $1,000. The share price on Jan 1 is $11 so the market value on Jan 1 is $1,100. on Dec 31 the share price is $12 so the market value is $1,200.

In QWin 2017 if you record an Add of the 100 shares on Jan 1 and enter the cost basis, the Investment Performance report will (incorrectly IMO) use a value on Jan 1 of $1,000 and will thus show the gain for the year at about 1200/1000 or 20% when it should be about 1200/1100 or 9.1%.

It appears that this has been fixed in QWin 2018.

Thanks, Quicken!

Follow-up #1:
Reinvested dividends are tracked as separate lots for calculating cost basis and thus capital gains. They do not, however, show up as additional investments in the Investment performance report because the dividend and the new investment are for the same amount and on the same day, so there is no net new investment. But they do affect the gain calculation because they add to the total value at the end of the period.

To better understand this, i suggest you experiment with the XIRR function in Excel. I think you will find that the Average Annual Return shown in the Investment Performance report matches the IRR that Excel calculates when you enter the same amounts and dates.

Beware of analysis periods of less than one year, especially the default YTD report. Setting the report Date range to Yearly and Current Year will force it to Jan 1 - Dec 31 and will give much more reasonable results.

Follow-up #2
I have not experimented with placeholders and the Investment Performance report. However if one Placeholder is catching up for 3 plus years' worth of dividends, like one big dividend vs 40 monthly ones, then your performance will show a big bump up on the date of the placeholder dividend. If you take the trouble to enter (or download) the actual reinvestments, the performance will be more accurate. If this is a taxable account your tax lots will then be correct.

I suggest that if you don't or can't enter all the details, then rather than have a placeholder, you just enter a manual Reinvest transaction for the correct amount and shares, with a memo saying the period it covers. That way you won't get confused if you go back and look at it later.