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how to record merger between dow and dupont Quicken Windows 2017 ?

bholling2
bholling2 Member ✭✭
edited January 2019 in Investing (Windows)

Comments

  • NotACPA
    NotACPA SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited October 2018
    Why don't you tell us the terms of that merger ... rather than making us do the research?

    Also, what Q product and what build/release?  This latter info you can get from HELP, About Quicken.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I am basing this answer on the June, 2016 proxy statement http://s2.q4cdn.com/752917794/files/doc_downloads/2016/dowfilings/Proxy-Statement-June-2016.pdf which says in its intro:
    If the mergers are completed, holders of Dow common stock will be entitled to receive one  share of DowDuPont common stock for each share of Dow common stock they hold, which we refer to as the Dow exchange ratio, and holders of DuPont common stock will be entitled to receive 1.2820 shares of DowDuPont common stock for each shares of DuPont common stock they hold, which we refer to as the DuPont exchange ratio, in addition to cash in lieu of any fractional shares.  
    Based solely on that information, In Quicken I would
    a) create a new security DowDupont,
    b) Enter a Corporate Acquisition transaction whereby DowDupont acquires Dow or DuPont as applicable using the applicable share ratio (1 or 1.2820).  For the price per share, I think you will need to wait for tomorrow's (9/1/2017) data.  
    c) if applicable, sell any fractional shares so created and not issued for the amount of the cash-in-lieu received (at a later date)

    That process should create a new DowDuPont holding with the same basis as you prior Dow or DuPont holding, prior to the cash-in-lieu sale.
  • Walter@
    [email protected] Member ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.
  • bholling2
    bholling2 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    I expected the same thing.  This is a merger where two companies combine to form a new company.  Acquisition is where one company purchases another.  Following the above if you can get through it, you'll end up with the new company and one of the original.  I think.
  • bholling2
    bholling2 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017

    Why don't you tell us the terms of that merger ... rather than making us do the research?

    Also, what Q product and what build/release?  This latter info you can get from HELP, About Quicken.

    Guess I wasn't clear.  What I was looking for is "What transaction do I use in Quicken for a merger?"  Quicken does not appear to have one.
  • Walter@
    [email protected] Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    q.lurker said:

    I am basing this answer on the June, 2016 proxy statement http://s2.q4cdn.com/752917794/files/doc_downloads/2016/dowfilings/Proxy-Statement-June-2016.pdf which says in its intro:

    If the mergers are completed, holders of Dow common stock will be entitled to receive one  share of DowDuPont common stock for each share of Dow common stock they hold, which we refer to as the Dow exchange ratio, and holders of DuPont common stock will be entitled to receive 1.2820 shares of DowDuPont common stock for each shares of DuPont common stock they hold, which we refer to as the DuPont exchange ratio, in addition to cash in lieu of any fractional shares.  
    Based solely on that information, In Quicken I would
    a) create a new security DowDupont,
    b) Enter a Corporate Acquisition transaction whereby DowDupont acquires Dow or DuPont as applicable using the applicable share ratio (1 or 1.2820).  For the price per share, I think you will need to wait for tomorrow's (9/1/2017) data.  
    c) if applicable, sell any fractional shares so created and not issued for the amount of the cash-in-lieu received (at a later date)

    That process should create a new DowDuPont holding with the same basis as you prior Dow or DuPont holding, prior to the cash-in-lieu sale.Quicken 2017 does not allow you to add the second transaction.  It keeps telling me to change the name of DowDuPont on the second entry.   Also DWDP does not update.   Anyone having the same problem?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    q.lurker said:

    I am basing this answer on the June, 2016 proxy statement http://s2.q4cdn.com/752917794/files/doc_downloads/2016/dowfilings/Proxy-Statement-June-2016.pdf which says in its intro:

    If the mergers are completed, holders of Dow common stock will be entitled to receive one  share of DowDuPont common stock for each share of Dow common stock they hold, which we refer to as the Dow exchange ratio, and holders of DuPont common stock will be entitled to receive 1.2820 shares of DowDuPont common stock for each shares of DuPont common stock they hold, which we refer to as the DuPont exchange ratio, in addition to cash in lieu of any fractional shares.  
    Based solely on that information, In Quicken I would
    a) create a new security DowDupont,
    b) Enter a Corporate Acquisition transaction whereby DowDupont acquires Dow or DuPont as applicable using the applicable share ratio (1 or 1.2820).  For the price per share, I think you will need to wait for tomorrow's (9/1/2017) data.  
    c) if applicable, sell any fractional shares so created and not issued for the amount of the cash-in-lieu received (at a later date)

    That process should create a new DowDuPont holding with the same basis as you prior Dow or DuPont holding, prior to the cash-in-lieu sale.@Walter:  I don't believe you were selecting the Corporate Acquisitions (stock for stock) transaction.  That macro-transaction does not care if the second named company (the acquiring company) already exists in the database.  The Corporate Spinoff action does care about that detail.  This is not a Corporate Spinoff.  It is an Acquisition whereby DOwDuPont is acquiring in two separate transactions Dow and DuPont.  

    I agree that as of Friday evening, the DWDP DowDuPont security is not updating its prince in Quicken.  
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    Generally speaking, mergers are acquisitions and Corporate Acquisition is the common treatment within Quicken.  While one could treat this as DuPont merging into Dow and then renaming Dow to DowDuPont, IMO it is clearer to have DowDuPont as a new company and then have it acquire the two companies merging.  

    Taking the two corporate acquisition approach should NOT leave "one of the original".  After taking that approach, the resultant holding in the account should only be DowDuPont (at least until it starts spinning off subsidiaries).  

    The transactions you should end up with dated 8/31 would be
    • Remove Shares (of Dow holdings)  
    • Add Shares (of DowDuPont) for however many lots of Dow you had previously held
    • Remove Shares (of DuPont)
    • Add Shares (of DowDuPont) for however many lots of DuPont you had previously held
  • bholling2
    bholling2 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    If I understand correctly, you are suggesting we make two acquisition transactions where the new DWDP company aquires Dow and then aquires Dupont.  And I assume then that the basis from the merged companies will compute correctly to DWDP.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that the basis in the new company computes.  Will try it tomorrow when the closing prices are posted.  Thanks for you efforts.
  • Walter@
    [email protected] Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    q.lurker said:

    I am basing this answer on the June, 2016 proxy statement http://s2.q4cdn.com/752917794/files/doc_downloads/2016/dowfilings/Proxy-Statement-June-2016.pdf which says in its intro:

    If the mergers are completed, holders of Dow common stock will be entitled to receive one  share of DowDuPont common stock for each share of Dow common stock they hold, which we refer to as the Dow exchange ratio, and holders of DuPont common stock will be entitled to receive 1.2820 shares of DowDuPont common stock for each shares of DuPont common stock they hold, which we refer to as the DuPont exchange ratio, in addition to cash in lieu of any fractional shares.  
    Based solely on that information, In Quicken I would
    a) create a new security DowDupont,
    b) Enter a Corporate Acquisition transaction whereby DowDupont acquires Dow or DuPont as applicable using the applicable share ratio (1 or 1.2820).  For the price per share, I think you will need to wait for tomorrow's (9/1/2017) data.  
    c) if applicable, sell any fractional shares so created and not issued for the amount of the cash-in-lieu received (at a later date)

    That process should create a new DowDuPont holding with the same basis as you prior Dow or DuPont holding, prior to the cash-in-lieu sale.It worked.   Thanks a million
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    q.lurker said:

    I am basing this answer on the June, 2016 proxy statement http://s2.q4cdn.com/752917794/files/doc_downloads/2016/dowfilings/Proxy-Statement-June-2016.pdf which says in its intro:

    If the mergers are completed, holders of Dow common stock will be entitled to receive one  share of DowDuPont common stock for each share of Dow common stock they hold, which we refer to as the Dow exchange ratio, and holders of DuPont common stock will be entitled to receive 1.2820 shares of DowDuPont common stock for each shares of DuPont common stock they hold, which we refer to as the DuPont exchange ratio, in addition to cash in lieu of any fractional shares.  
    Based solely on that information, In Quicken I would
    a) create a new security DowDupont,
    b) Enter a Corporate Acquisition transaction whereby DowDupont acquires Dow or DuPont as applicable using the applicable share ratio (1 or 1.2820).  For the price per share, I think you will need to wait for tomorrow's (9/1/2017) data.  
    c) if applicable, sell any fractional shares so created and not issued for the amount of the cash-in-lieu received (at a later date)

    That process should create a new DowDuPont holding with the same basis as you prior Dow or DuPont holding, prior to the cash-in-lieu sale.Also, as of 9 PM Eastern time, DowDuPont prices are being updated through tine Quicken servers (Download Quotes function).
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    Nobody has said it yet, but MAKE A BACKUP before starting, that way if you don't like the results, you can restore to the "Before" condition.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • bholling2
    bholling2 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    Backup is a good idea,  I did, but didn't need it because what was offered worked, but still no less of a good idea. 

    I used "Corp acquisition" for  positions I hold/held for Dow and DD.  Worked great - matched my broker's result across the board.  I had multiple lots of Dow and was very happily surprised that Quicken handled all in one transaction, while still putting the multiple lot details under the DWDP position (portfolio in Q).  The numbers, basis, shares, mkt price/value, etc. all matched my broker's. Super!!

     Note: my several years in software design/development bring me to label this action a "work-a-round". Not a bad thing. But I caution that "work-a-rounds' tend to collect and pretty soon can become unmanageable; mainly because they don't get officially documented/controlled  WSJ and CNBC called/reported this as a "merger".  q.lurker demonstrated a very detailed knowledge of how Quicken works and applied that knowledge with the ability to take a different view, got us users up and running quickly; at least those following this thread.  I hope quicken has a process for controlling work-a-rounds - I'm sure they do but, having been personally bit...  just thought I'd mention it.     
  • dnfinance
    dnfinance Member ✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Walter said:

    I own BOTH Dow and DuPont and Quicken 2017 will not allow me to enter the 2nd stock.   Keeps saying I already own the new entity.   Anyone else have the same problem.

    Thank you q.lurker for your direction. 

    An observation in case other folks held Dow in two different brokerage accounts that are in the same Quicken file:  After I entered the Merger per superuser q.lurker the DOW/DUPONT "Added" entries appeared correctly in each of the two brokerage accounts.  Both of the Dow "Removed" entries were created in the account where I entered the Merger transaction.  I Cut the extra Dow "Removed" entry and pasted it to the correct account.      
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2017
    Yahoo shows the last price for DOW as 66.65 on 8/31/17.
    I  owned DOW.  Fidelity gave me 2 tansations (in quicken) a boughtx for new and a sellx for the old.  I accepted the boughtx then tried to convert to "acquisition" but that gave me twice as many shares.  Then I restored my backup, deleted both Fidelity transactions and did the manual acquisition.  Quicken then enters a remove transations and then adds a bunch of transactions to represent all the previous transactions I made originally for DOW. Now all is cool and it keeps the original cost basis fo reach lot.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018
    We own DowDuPont in both a brokerage account and a retirement account.  The Raymond James brokerage account updated itself correctly.  The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken.  The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Doris said:

    We own DowDuPont in both a brokerage account and a retirement account.  The Raymond James brokerage account updated itself correctly.  The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken.  The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?

    For these types of transactions, I generally do not accept the transactions downloaded from the brokerage.  Those transactions tend to lack the details on the lot ownership - when bought and for how much.  Instead, I would enter the transactions as outlined.  Then I would make sure the total share counts agreed between Quicken and the brokerage.  
     The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken. 
    I don't know what that means.
    The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?
    It is likely a "Remove Shares" transactions would do that, but I can't promise that such would be the proper correction, since I am not looking at your specific data.  If you want to try something that you are not sure about, backup your data file first.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2017
    Doris said:

    We own DowDuPont in both a brokerage account and a retirement account.  The Raymond James brokerage account updated itself correctly.  The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken.  The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?

    Where do I find "Remove Shares"?  That is exactly what I need to do, but I don't find that option.  I'm using Quicken 2017 Version 4.5.8 (Build 45.17542.100) .
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Doris said:

    We own DowDuPont in both a brokerage account and a retirement account.  The Raymond James brokerage account updated itself correctly.  The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken.  The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?

    @Doris:  Those don't look like Quicken for Windows version or build numbers.  Are you a Mac user?  

    From QW2017 Help / About Quicken
    image
    I can't comment on the Mac's features and capabilities.
  • schnuddel
    schnuddel Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    I use Quicken 2016 for Mac. Version 3.5.2  Build 35.13202.200

    I don't see any transactions for mergers or acquisitions.  How do I process this merger while keeping my cost basis?
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    schnuddel said:

    I use Quicken 2016 for Mac. Version 3.5.2  Build 35.13202.200

    I don't see any transactions for mergers or acquisitions.  How do I process this merger while keeping my cost basis?

    Post as a new question under the Mac Investments grouping.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2017
    Doris said:

    We own DowDuPont in both a brokerage account and a retirement account.  The Raymond James brokerage account updated itself correctly.  The Merrill Lynch retirement account downloads a double amount to Quicken.  The DowDuPont shares show as correct, but it hasn't zeroed out the DuPont shares.  How can I do that?

    But of course.  :-)  I see that there's a Mac forum.  I'll head on over there.  Thanks, tho.
This discussion has been closed.