Selling a position

Unknown

I am running Quicken 2017 Premier. I am correcting two sales from 2016. I deleted the original 2 sales in order to correct the basis in the mutual fund (which includes about 100 lots due to dividend reinvestment.) I sold half in February and half in April, 2016 and want to record these two separate sales again. When I try to sell half, it does not let me select any lots. If I add the two sales together and check off the box to sell all the lots, it will do so.

All of the shares came into the account as SHARES ADDED, if that makes any difference for this discussion

I've eliminated similar named securities as the problem. I've closed and re-opened the file as well as running the SYNC task. Neither step corrected the problem.

Any other ideas?

q_lurker

So if I understand correctly:

• You had a position in a mutual fund made up of about 100 lots
• In February 2016, you sold half the holding (real world)
• In April the other half in April 2016 (real world)
• Both those transactions were in Quicken - presumably relying on the default FIFO treatment (correct?)
• You deleted both Sell shares transaction in order to alter the lot specification for each.
• When you then attempted to re-enter the February sale of half the holding, the program would not let you specify lots.  But of you entered it as a sale of the entire holding, the sale would go through OK.

Is that pretty much it?

The path you described should have been OK, though you should not have needed to delete and re-enter the sales.  You should have been able to Edit each sale and specify lots accordingly.  I will add however, that deleting and re-entering should be a more reliable approach.  

The fact that Quicken balked at the half-lot sale lot specification is odd.  My approach to addressing that would be:
1)  Exit the program and restart -- that can at times clear up something that has not gotten fully addressed by other edits.
2)  Check for any hidden placeholders.  Under Edit / Preferences make sure that the option to show hidden placeholders is checked.  If there is such a placeholder, delete it as it would seem to be unnecessary.  
3)  Make sure both sales were deleted before re-entering the sales and re-enter them oldest first.  The idea there is that if a later sale specifies a particular lot for the sale, that particular lot should not be available for specification by the prior sale being entered.  

If all else fails, you might look into restoring a backup and trying again, or simply trying again.

HTH
 

Tom Young

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Unknown

q.lurker said:

So if I understand correctly:

• You had a position in a mutual fund made up of about 100 lots
• In February 2016, you sold half the holding (real world)
• In April the other half in April 2016 (real world)
• Both those transactions were in Quicken - presumably relying on the default FIFO treatment (correct?)
• You deleted both Sell shares transaction in order to alter the lot specification for each.
• When you then attempted to re-enter the February sale of half the holding, the program would not let you specify lots.  But of you entered it as a sale of the entire holding, the sale would go through OK.

Is that pretty much it?

The path you described should have been OK, though you should not have needed to delete and re-enter the sales.  You should have been able to Edit each sale and specify lots accordingly.  I will add however, that deleting and re-entering should be a more reliable approach.  

The fact that Quicken balked at the half-lot sale lot specification is odd.  My approach to addressing that would be:
1)  Exit the program and restart -- that can at times clear up something that has not gotten fully addressed by other edits.
2)  Check for any hidden placeholders.  Under Edit / Preferences make sure that the option to show hidden placeholders is checked.  If there is such a placeholder, delete it as it would seem to be unnecessary.  
3)  Make sure both sales were deleted before re-entering the sales and re-enter them oldest first.  The idea there is that if a later sale specifies a particular lot for the sale, that particular lot should not be available for specification by the prior sale being entered.  

If all else fails, you might look into restoring a backup and trying again, or simply trying again.

HTH
 

Your summary is correct, except that the broker doesn't always use FIFO. Sometime they're trying to minimize the net gain and so will select lots to be tax efficient.

1) I tried re-start with no resolution.
2) The bottom left corner indicates no placeholders.
Both sales were deleted. To be certain I sorted the register by date and then by security.
3) Restoring a backup is not an option as too many other transactions have been entered elsewhere. Please understand that I manage 40 separate brokerage accounts plus about 35 checking accounts on Quicken.

Unknown

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

You may be on to something. I remember running into that issue about a year ago. Where within Quicken is that controlled?

Jim_Harman

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

The selection is in Tools/Security list, click on security name to display the Security Detail view. 
Click on Edit Security Details. For Mutual Fund type securities, there is a checkbox for Use Average Cost. 

Note that in Quicken this affects the security wherever it is held. You may need to notify your broker if you change methods. See IRS Pub 550 for details. 

Back up your data file before making this change, in case you change your mind.

Unknown

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Thank you. That was the solution to my problem. FYI, the broker has never used average cost in the 3 years I've been with them.

Tom Young

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Brokers are now required to ask each of their customers what "default" cost method to use when reporting basis on the sale of "covered" securities.  If the customer never replies to that query then the broker will use a default costing method of FIFO.

Unknown

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Is it possible that with some accounts, you can sign an agreement, giving the choice to the broker/investment advisor to use their discretion?

Tom Young

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

I'm sure there is though that would certainly require an advisor that was a paid advisor, receiving some sort of management fee. 

Unknown

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Yes, every quarter the accounts I reconcile are charged with an advisor fee, an investment manager fee, or both.

Jim_Harman

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

Deciding which tax lots to sell in order to minimize taxes, AKA Tax Loss Harvesting, is a feature of some of the new "robo advisers"

Unknown

Tom Young said:

If you told Quicken to use "average cost" with this mutual fund then the "Specify Lots" button would be grayed out but "Sell all shares..." would still be available.

I've never been told that the adviser is a robo adviser but I suspect so, given how the activity goes on in the accounts. Personally I doubt that I would pay an adviser who puts all of my dollars into a money market account. But that's just my opinion. Thanks again for your help.