How to change category of online transfer

Unknown
Unknown Member
I'm using Quicken 2017 on Windows 10 PC. I've been using Quicken for many years and every month I have an automatic online fund transfer from a Chase checking account to a Chase savings account. I want the transfer to eventually be categorized as "Bills & Utilties: Property Tax Funds" instead of being categorized as a transfer from/to. Every month I now go into the Checking account and change the entry to the desired category. I then have to go to the Savings account to find that the transferred entry no longer exists. I then copy/paste the entry from the previous month, which is the same $ amount each month, and change the date to the current month. Is there an easier way to achieve the desired result?

Comments

  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    @Morgan: the process you are using is an improper use of Quicken that will cause issues with reports, etc. Transfers between bank accounts should be modelled as transfers between Quicken accounts. What are you actually trying to achieve? If you are trying to set aside money for a latter lump sum payment of property taxes then you might consider using the savings goal feature. The savings goal feature lets you "reserve" funds for a future use. I regularly use it to "set aside" funds to annual payment of property tax  or annual payment of insurance, etc.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited December 2018
    Thanks for the "Quick" response!

    Well, I never use reports in Quicken. I do have an excel sheet that I use which starts by showing total spending for the month to date. From this total, It then subtracts about 14 different unpaid, reoccurring utility payments, one of which is this recurring $300 transfer. As these bill get paid during the month, I remove their amount from the list of unpaid utilities. It then totals all of the remaining unpaid utility payments. This is why I want the fund transfer to show up in the Utilities Category in stead of being shown as a transfer. It makes it easy to pull these payments from the Quicken "Spending" tab.
    After the spreadsheet subtracts the expected utility payments it then subtracts any Pending Credit Card charges. It then deducts this amount from the Income For The Month, revealing to me how much cash I have remaining for the month. This is a doctored up screenshot of what the spreadsheet looks like:
    image
    This is why I would prefer to have the $300 monthly transfer show up under "Utilities" category. Also, the Savings account that the funds are transferred to is listed as a "separate" account so the transfer doesn't show up in the Spending Report.
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    Thanks for the "Quick" response!

    Well, I never use reports in Quicken. I do have an excel sheet that I use which starts by showing total spending for the month to date. From this total, It then subtracts about 14 different unpaid, reoccurring utility payments, one of which is this recurring $300 transfer. As these bill get paid during the month, I remove their amount from the list of unpaid utilities. It then totals all of the remaining unpaid utility payments. This is why I want the fund transfer to show up in the Utilities Category in stead of being shown as a transfer. It makes it easy to pull these payments from the Quicken "Spending" tab.
    After the spreadsheet subtracts the expected utility payments it then subtracts any Pending Credit Card charges. It then deducts this amount from the Income For The Month, revealing to me how much cash I have remaining for the month. This is a doctored up screenshot of what the spreadsheet looks like:
    image
    This is why I would prefer to have the $300 monthly transfer show up under "Utilities" category. Also, the Savings account that the funds are transferred to is listed as a "separate" account so the transfer doesn't show up in the Spending Report.

    With all due respect, you should learn to use Quicken. You are performing painful workarounds to do what Quicken does well itself.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2018
    I agree with Artic Hare. There are probably simpler ways to set funds aside or earmark funds  for anticipated obligations. I would not change the Chase savings category, when you make a transfer to Savings,  but use 'to Sav Prop Tax setaside' in your payee field when you make the transfer from Chk to Savings.

    Similar for other anticipatory setasides.

    Or you could just enter the expected income and expenses in the checking register in advance, and see the forecast total balance at any point in time.

    When eventually received or actually paid, refine the amount and click 'cleared'. ...

    In the register, Using 'account actions' gear icon (upper right) and 'register columns' you can add a 'notes' column to your registers. In the notes field you can annotate a transaction as 'expected' or "quarterly"..

    You can end using the spreadsheet and stop using anticipatory categories.

    Bills and Utilities should probably have Bills deleted from its name, and Utilities  no longer be the place for a Property Tax earmark sub-category.  

    If you avoid using distorting, temporary categories, such as  "Bills & Utilties: Property Tax Funds", you might find Reports to be quite useful.  Regards 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2020

    Thanks for the "Quick" response!

    Well, I never use reports in Quicken. I do have an excel sheet that I use which starts by showing total spending for the month to date. From this total, It then subtracts about 14 different unpaid, reoccurring utility payments, one of which is this recurring $300 transfer. As these bill get paid during the month, I remove their amount from the list of unpaid utilities. It then totals all of the remaining unpaid utility payments. This is why I want the fund transfer to show up in the Utilities Category in stead of being shown as a transfer. It makes it easy to pull these payments from the Quicken "Spending" tab.
    After the spreadsheet subtracts the expected utility payments it then subtracts any Pending Credit Card charges. It then deducts this amount from the Income For The Month, revealing to me how much cash I have remaining for the month. This is a doctored up screenshot of what the spreadsheet looks like:
    image
    This is why I would prefer to have the $300 monthly transfer show up under "Utilities" category. Also, the Savings account that the funds are transferred to is listed as a "separate" account so the transfer doesn't show up in the Spending Report.

    Thanks, but I don't find the workarounds painful. I've done it this way for years and I rather enjoy doing it. My only goal in tracking expenses in this way is to insure that I maintain a non-negative cash flow during any month.

    It may be that Quicken can tell me at a glance what is my current status regarding monthly cash flow, but I'll have to to some serious digging around in Quicken to achieve this. I may look into it someday.
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Please allow me to take Morgan's side on a couple of points.

    1. Some of us were using spreadsheets before Quicken existed.  I started using Lotus 123 when it was the best game in town - in 1983 and still have the spreadsheets I created then.  I wince every time there is a new Quicken release, hoping that the .prn file export is not disabled.    My exported spreadsheets give me a consistent view  pre and post Quicken

    2. I classify the inability to categorize a transfer as problem in Quicken.  While I don't use the transfer out data in a spreadsheet the way the Morgan does,  having to add transactions to get the money to the right category in the "transfer to" account is a pain.  I'm happy to learn something new if I'm doing something wrong. I often got to the ATM and transfer money out to a "cash" account to pay off a vendor who doesn't want to check. I have to add a transaction to get that money into the proper category and then make sure that the reports exclude transfers or it gets counted twice.

    3. I don't consider myself to be novice in using Quicken's reporting but I, too, find it easier to export to a spreadsheet rather than struggle trying to make a Quicken report work.  For example,  I live close to my son.  We often spend money buying things for one another and periodically "settle up" with one of us paying the other whatever excess has been spent on us.   Some of the things the he buys for me, I want to be able to track discretely, not in a big lump of the settlement transaction.  I try to enter Quicken transactions for the things that he buys for me and definitely want to track the things that I've bought for him.   It would be nice if Quicken had an easy report  for the reconcillation and excess payment but I've never made that work.  I have some other special situations and those are better in spreadsheets, too,   Maybe it is just me.
  • Rich_M
    Rich_M SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    @Morgan I have to agree with many of the other comments here, you are not utilizing Quicken correctly and therefore cannot get the best out of it. If you enter all of your transactions correctly, then all of Quicken's reporting features and views will be all that more useful.

    Although I can understand how you enjoy working on this budget feature you've developed in Excel over the years, I would like to suggest that you give Quicken's built in Budget feature a chance at some point.

    Until you're ready to make some changes how about earmarking those property tax funds with a tag in your transfers.  That will allow you to quickly filter them out in a report.
    Quicken 2017 Premier - Windows 10 Pro
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Please allow me to take Morgan's side on a couple of points.

    1. Some of us were using spreadsheets before Quicken existed.  I started using Lotus 123 when it was the best game in town - in 1983 and still have the spreadsheets I created then.  I wince every time there is a new Quicken release, hoping that the .prn file export is not disabled.    My exported spreadsheets give me a consistent view  pre and post Quicken

    2. I classify the inability to categorize a transfer as problem in Quicken.  While I don't use the transfer out data in a spreadsheet the way the Morgan does,  having to add transactions to get the money to the right category in the "transfer to" account is a pain.  I'm happy to learn something new if I'm doing something wrong. I often go to the ATM and transfer money out to a "cash" account to pay off a vendor who doesn't want a check. I have to add a transaction to get that money into the proper category and then make sure that the reports exclude transfers or it gets counted twice.

    3. I don't consider myself to be novice in using Quicken's reporting but I, too, find it easier to export to a spreadsheet rather than struggle trying to make a Quicken report work.  For example,  I live close to my son.  We often spend money buying things for one another and periodically "settle up" with one of us paying the other whatever excess has been spent on us.   Some of the things the he buys for me, I want to be able to track discretely, not in a big lump of the settlement transaction.  I try to enter Quicken transactions for the things that he buys for me and definitely want to track the things that I've bought for him.   It would be nice if Quicken had an easy report  for the reconcillation and excess payment but I've never made that work.  I have some other special situations and those are better in spreadsheets, too,   Maybe it is just me.
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    @Morgan:  If you want it done your way, you are likely best served by having two scheduled memorized transactions - one in the checking account as the outgo and one in the savings account as the deposit.  Personally, I think that is a sloppy exercise and approach, but if it works for you, I'll try to keep out of it.
  • Rich_M
    Rich_M SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 
    Quicken 2017 Premier - Windows 10 Pro
  • Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian)
    Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    Thanks for the "Quick" response!

    Well, I never use reports in Quicken. I do have an excel sheet that I use which starts by showing total spending for the month to date. From this total, It then subtracts about 14 different unpaid, reoccurring utility payments, one of which is this recurring $300 transfer. As these bill get paid during the month, I remove their amount from the list of unpaid utilities. It then totals all of the remaining unpaid utility payments. This is why I want the fund transfer to show up in the Utilities Category in stead of being shown as a transfer. It makes it easy to pull these payments from the Quicken "Spending" tab.
    After the spreadsheet subtracts the expected utility payments it then subtracts any Pending Credit Card charges. It then deducts this amount from the Income For The Month, revealing to me how much cash I have remaining for the month. This is a doctored up screenshot of what the spreadsheet looks like:
    image
    This is why I would prefer to have the $300 monthly transfer show up under "Utilities" category. Also, the Savings account that the funds are transferred to is listed as a "separate" account so the transfer doesn't show up in the Spending Report.

    Quicken is a very effective replacements for spreadsheets. You have got a bit of a make-work project going on.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2020

    Thanks for the "Quick" response!

    Well, I never use reports in Quicken. I do have an excel sheet that I use which starts by showing total spending for the month to date. From this total, It then subtracts about 14 different unpaid, reoccurring utility payments, one of which is this recurring $300 transfer. As these bill get paid during the month, I remove their amount from the list of unpaid utilities. It then totals all of the remaining unpaid utility payments. This is why I want the fund transfer to show up in the Utilities Category in stead of being shown as a transfer. It makes it easy to pull these payments from the Quicken "Spending" tab.
    After the spreadsheet subtracts the expected utility payments it then subtracts any Pending Credit Card charges. It then deducts this amount from the Income For The Month, revealing to me how much cash I have remaining for the month. This is a doctored up screenshot of what the spreadsheet looks like:
    image
    This is why I would prefer to have the $300 monthly transfer show up under "Utilities" category. Also, the Savings account that the funds are transferred to is listed as a "separate" account so the transfer doesn't show up in the Spending Report.

    Try running an Income/Expense report for the month, using scheduled bill reminders that are automatically entered xxx days in advance of being due.

    Also, try looking at In/Out/What's Left which, also coupled with scheduled bill reminders, will accurately give you your cash flow for the month, past months and future months.  It's a very effective tool to see at a glance what your current status is regarding cash flow.  

    I agree with Arctic Hare...what you're doing, while enjoyable, is something that Quicken is very able to do very easily.  
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    "2. I classify the inability to categorize a transfer as problem in Quicken."

    Absolutely not.  Quicken is and always has been a classic "double entry" accounting system and you're trying to break that.  A transfer from one Account to another Account is simply that, and nothing more.  If you want to somehow characterize money moved from one Account to another Account you can ONLY do that by making some "remark" somewhere in the transaction, i.e., memo field, payee or note field. 

    If you change the accounting for the amount in the receiving Account to an expense - property taxes let's say - then the transfer in the "from" Account has to disappear.  What you're effectively saying from an accounting point of view is "the county has refunded to me some amount of property tax money and that's where this money came from." 

    Of course that's incorrect: the assessor didn't deposit that money in that Account, and the Account from whence the money actually came - the checking Account - has a balance that's overstated.  You just can't get around the double entry nature of Quicken no matter how hard you try.

    A more rational way of doing what you're trying to do - which is somehow earmark some money inside the savings Account as "FOR PROPERTY TAXES!  DON'T TOUCH!" - is to use the Savings Goal feature of Quicken.  Establish a Savings Goal of "Property Taxes".  What that does, from an accounting standpoint, is set up another asset Account in a section of the Account Bar named "Savings Goal.  After you transfer that money from checking to savings then make another transfer from the Savings Account to the Property Taxes Account - another double entry - and that will reduce the balance in the savings Account and increase the balance in the Property Taxes Account.  The nice thing about the Savings Goal feature is that Quicken "knows" that money is REALLY in your savings Account so when you go to reconcile that Account the amount in the savings goal accounts get added back for that purpose, but no other.
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    "2. I classify the inability to categorize a transfer as problem in Quicken."

    Absolutely not.  Quicken is and always has been a classic "double entry" accounting system and you're trying to break that.  A transfer from one Account to another Account is simply that, and nothing more.  If you want to somehow characterize money moved from one Account to another Account you can ONLY do that by making some "remark" somewhere in the transaction, i.e., memo field, payee or note field. 

    If you change the accounting for the amount in the receiving Account to an expense - property taxes let's say - then the transfer in the "from" Account has to disappear.  What you're effectively saying from an accounting point of view is "the county has refunded to me some amount of property tax money and that's where this money came from." 

    Of course that's incorrect: the assessor didn't deposit that money in that Account, and the Account from whence the money actually came - the checking Account - has a balance that's overstated.  You just can't get around the double entry nature of Quicken no matter how hard you try.

    A more rational way of doing what you're trying to do - which is somehow earmark some money inside the savings Account as "FOR PROPERTY TAXES!  DON'T TOUCH!" - is to use the Savings Goal feature of Quicken.  Establish a Savings Goal of "Property Taxes".  What that does, from an accounting standpoint, is set up another asset Account in a section of the Account Bar named "Savings Goal.  After you transfer that money from checking to savings then make another transfer from the Savings Account to the Property Taxes Account - another double entry - and that will reduce the balance in the savings Account and increase the balance in the Property Taxes Account.  The nice thing about the Savings Goal feature is that Quicken "knows" that money is REALLY in your savings Account so when you go to reconcile that Account the amount in the savings goal accounts get added back for that purpose, but no other.

    There's a typo in the 4th sentence of the 3rd paragraph, and I can't fix it.  It should read:

    "After you transfer that money from checking to savings then make
    another transfer from the SAVINGS Account to the Property Taxes Account
    - another double entry - and that will reduce the balance in the
    savings Account and increase the balance in the Property Taxes Account."
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Today, there is a transfer between the checking and the cash accounts which cannot be categorized.   I end up creating a "withdrawal" transaction to the vendor from the cash account with the category in it.   Unless I exclude transfers from the reporting, the results do not represent what has actually happened and the totals are inaccurate.  If there is a better way, please explain it.  I've struggled with this "issue" for a long time.
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    @chasfm11;

    Please see my suggestion for the correct way to do what I think you're trying to do using Quicken's Savings Goal function.
  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    By reading your first post above you have 2 transactions.  A Transfer from checking to Cash.  Straight forward.  Record it as such.  It is not paying your vendor.

    Then you have a cash withdrawal.  Record the cash out to the vendor.  Be sure to include the Cash account on your reports.  

    Or just categorize the ATM withdrawal as going to the Vendor and not as a transfer.  Your choice.  You don't have to use the Cash Account.  Which is what Rich said.  Don't run it though the Cash Account at all.  

    Did you take out more cash than you needed?  Like you withdrew $100 and paid the vendor $75?  Make the withdrawal a split and put 25 to Cash and 75 to Vendor.  
  • q_lurker
    q_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    And tied into volvogirl's astute answer is use of reports.  Sometimes it is necessary and appropriate to exclude transfers from reports; other times not; sometimes the transfers just need to be ignored.  Depends on the report and the information sought - neither of which has been identified in this discussion.  If some payments to some vendors come from the the checking account and payments to other vendors come from the Cash account, you need to include both accounts in the reports.    
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Please re-read.  I'm NOT the OP and am NOT trying to shield money in an account. I was echoing a couple of Morgan's concerns with examples of my own - which are very different from his goal.  I do not agree with the way that he was trying to do what he wanted to do.  I can see what he was trying to accomplish but agree that I won't try to do it that way.   The Savings goal function may well meet his needs but I'm not going to research it since that isn't my need.    
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Volvogril,
    Thanks for your suggestion.  I tried the test transaction that you described with a split going to the cash account and it worked.   I had to check "show hidden categories" to actually see the cash account.  Since I pared down the list of categories that I want to use, I didn't consider adding that check mark.   The problem comes that I must use the vendor name in the transaction and the Quicken report shows the entire amount, not the split amount actually given to the vendor.   Perhaps this is a reporting problem, not a function problem as I thought.    Since I have vendors that I pay multiple times with cash, the reports distort how much I've actually paid them using this method.   For example, if I pay the lawn care crew in cash at $75 weekly but am taking $100 out of the ATM each week, the cash account shows the correct total cash on hand.  But the vendor lawn care vendor payment history is wrong, according to the "how much did I pay to" report.    I can check "show splits" in the report customization but the total still shows the full transaction amount, including the $25 sent to the cash account.  
  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Then you probably do need to first Transfer the full withdrawal to the Cash Account and then pay each item out of the Cash account and not part of a split.  Treat the Cash Account like you would a credit card.  Enter each payment as a separate transaction.  
  • chasfm11 .
    chasfm11 . Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Thanks.  That is what I've been doing - a transfer between the checking account and the cash account and then cash payments with categories from the cash account.  That has always made sense to me when I was doing a split transaction.   But my original point was that some (many) of my transactions are one for one - one transfer and one cash transaction for the full amount from the cash account.  I was lamenting that they all had to be two transactions.  Again, that is fine unless you try to include transfers in the reporting and then all of the totals for activity are wrong because the transfers duplicate the amounts.  Again, I'm no double entry guru but if the purpose is to make sure that the transactions balance to the accounts, something isn't right.
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    @chasfm11 In item #2 you can simplify recording the payment to your vendor by just categorizing the expense in the withdrawal transaction directly. 

    Simply customize any type of spending or income and expense report to exclude transfers.  That eliminates the duplication of amounts showing up in these reports. 
This discussion has been closed.