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puts and calls - Options trading in Quicken Deluxe 2018

Unknown
Unknown Member
edited December 2018 in Investing (Windows)
Qucken does not handle PUTS and CALLS - but here is a workaround

The current Quicken does not handle buying and selling of Options because it presumes that the trader is buying/selling STOCKS, but in fact trader is buying/selling obligations to buy/sell stocks based on future choices.

When a trader does a "Sell to Open" a PUT, a premium (income) is received (and should be logged into Quicken). Receipt of that premium obligates the trader to purchase shares at $STRIKE based on the future choice of the other party. The obligation can also just expire and the trader is left with income and no obligation.

Quicken FAILS in the area of PUTS and CALLS, indicating trader cannot sell what one does not have. In fact, trader is selling an obligation/promise, not a stock. Quicken might want to update their logic in this area. 

When Option names like CVS181116C00082500 or KR180928P00028500 are entered, Quicken goes to the internet to get information and complains. Quicken should recognize the world standard for these naming conventions and handle the named asset as an option, not a stock.

Quicken should add as transaction types: Sell to Open, Buy to Close, Buy to Open, and Sell to Close. These affect cash in or out indicating that the trader got or spend money for the option (obligation). Purchase or Sale of the underlying stock is based on future choices, so Quicken need not be concerned with anything other that logging cash in or out of the account, and an associated option category.

My workaround until this is fixed is to enter an "Other Cash Transaction" Payee is "Sell to Open" (or the other 3). Category as desired, but my transactions are in an IRA and logging them is less important to me as I will get taxed only on my distribution. In the Memo, I put notes as: KR180928P00028500 @ $0.16 and log the NET cost or income in Amount Field. This method keeps my account balance accurate and lets me manually enter buy/sell stock transactions at my discretion based on options exercised.

Does ANYONE have a better IDEA?

Comments

  • K.O. (Win-Premier)
    K.O. (Win-Premier) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Hi Michael.  I do a LOT of option trading and have been doing so for 6+ years and using Quicken for 20+ years.  While Quicken does not handle it perfectly and there are some problems let me address a couple items you brought up.

    1)  Quicken does not have BTO/STO/STC/BTC transactions but you can use Buy, Sell Short, Sold, and Cover Short transactions to achieve the same results respectively.  There are some gotchas (bugs) in the way Quicken accounts for the relationship between the quantity of shares in the account and the different transaction types but for the most part it works.  So in this case you should not need to use Other Cash Transaction.  There are also some gotchas depending on if you are downloading transactions from a broker and which broker as it relates to Expiration/Assignment/Exercise transactions as these need to be converted to the appropriate quicken closing transaction (i.e. cover short or sold).

    2)  I always enter options manually and I believe Quicken will provide quotes if you use the OCC standard for the options symbol.  It is similar to what you listed above (e.g. KR180928P00028500) except that it is a position dependant format and thus you need some spaces in the symbol (e.g. KR___180928P00028500 where ___ is where the spaces would go).

    3) You probably have already noticed this but you need to enter the quantity as the obligation quantity and not the number of contracts (i.e. 100 and not 1).  Others have complained about this but if you get into different types of options (e.g. Options on Futures) the contract size is not always 100.

    4) You will also need to deal w/ the potential for a large number of securities.  I do this by hiding each security after the expiration date of the option.

    Hope this helps you and anyone else who might be using Quicken and trading options.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited October 2018
    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Option_symbol
  • miklk
    miklk SuperUser, Windows Beta Beta
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    Stop should be Short Sale instead of sell
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    K.O. (Win-Premier) said to use Sell Short not "Sell" for STO.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    Thanks for the OCC link. Curios why NASDAQ doesn't use it. Probably parsing for first non-numeric to split things out. 

    The ShtSell works for STO. MORE GOODER!

    What do you recommend for a BTO? 
  • K.O. (Win-Premier)
    K.O. (Win-Premier) SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    BTO = Buy/Bought :)

    Not sure what you mean by NASDAQ not using it.  OCC symbol is coding standard for common stock regardless of the exchange (NASDAQ, NYSE, etc).  You will find brokers (TDA for example) that use an old or proprietary symbol (i.e. not OCC coding structure).
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    Eating Crow -- I checked again. NASDAQ does use it. I was overlooking it. Yahoo finance does not: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AXP/options?p=AXP

    Crow aint bad after you get rid of the feathers and the bird and the feet and....
  • Tom Young
    Tom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    And an expiration is simply a "Bought" action at $0 per share.
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I am grateful for your reply! Curious, though, about how you are able to use "Sell" as STO. Quicken thinks I am selling what I do not have.

    I am unfamiliar with OCC standards. Yahoo, NASDAQ, and my broker use the format I've noted. Perhaps since my broker (Ally Bank) does not have a download, I am seeing an oversimplified view.

    I like your thoughts on hiding expired options!

    For a BTO, use Buy - Shares Bought.
This discussion has been closed.