Investment Transactions Report Shows ReinvInt as Just Income, Not Income & Expense

isonclubikin
isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
edited January 2019 in Investing (Windows)
This appears to have changed with the last version update.  Prior to this version, when I ran an Investment Transactions report on all my investment accounts with the "Date Range" set to "Last Month," the "Subtotal By" set to "Account," and the "Sort By" set to "Account/Date," each account's grouping totaled zero (i.e., my income and outflow in each account balanced).  With this month's report, each account grouping totaled a positive value equal to the amount of ReinvInt in that account.  IOW, reinvesting an interest amount is now being treated as a pure income event and not as both an income and expense event.

I assume that the previous treatment was correct and I'd like to see the report corrected.  I've submitted a bug report through the Quicken program.

Quicken Premier 2019 Version R14.27 on Windows 10 Pro

Comments

  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 
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  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    From C. D. Bales:


    "But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash ....".


    Not so; the amount reinvested adds to the Cash column and the Cash+Investment column in the Q2019 Investment Transaction report.


    [A reinvestment was never an income/expense event as the original poster suggested: it's always been just an income event - but one where the amount of the income does not increase the cash balance of the account.]


    That is still true in Q2019.


    The amount of "Cash" for a reinvestment transaction in the Q2019 Investment Transaction report is offset by the amount of "Cash+Invest" in the report, resulting in an "Amount Invested" of zero in the report. And that agrees with the Quicken definition of "Amount Invested", which "does not include reinvested amounts, such as reinvested dividends ....".


    A Q2019 "Bought" transaction, on the other hand, does affect the "Amount Invested" in the Investment Transaction report.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    OK, thanks for the correction.

    The report may be working as designed, but if so I am confused by the Cash column when there are reinvestments.

    A reinvestment correctly has no impact on the Cash Amt column in the account's Transaction list but does affect the Cash column in the report. 
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  • isonclubikin
    isonclubikin Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    Yes.  As Jim asked, above, I was referring to the Cash column (I'd edit my OP to say that, but I can't figure out how -- sorry).  And, similarly, I'm confused by that if a ReinvInt (and ReinvDiv) is reported in that column differently from an Int/Div and Buy of the same amount.

    EDIT:  I've changed a few words, above, but I also wanted to add what I'm trying to get out of this report.  I'm just trying to confirm that all the dividends received in a month are actually swept into  the sweep account.  My mother has trouble understanding where the money is coming from and going to on her brokerage statement.  By looking at the Cash column, this report was an easy way to show that.  Now, it's not.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    I have looked into this further and I see that both Divs and ReinvDivs add to the Cash column in the report but a Div coupled with a Bought zeros out the cash and adds to the Amount Invested, while the Reinv leaves the dividend amount in the Cash column.

    As CD Bales says, this is by design, because Quicken's Amount Invested figure does not include reinvested distributions. One can argue what the Amount Invested column in the report and in the Investing > Portfolio views SHOULD include as was done extensively here
    https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/amount-invested-should-decrease-by-the-ammoun-pa...

    but the current behavior is apparently the longstanding intent of the designers of Quicken.

    If your intent is to track the cash coming and going from an account, it might be better to look at the Cash Bal column in the account's Transaction list (register). If there is separate sweep account, the Cash Bal column should always be zero after the transactions have settled.
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  • mshiggins
    mshiggins SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    From C. D. Bales:


    "A reinvestment correctly has no impact on the Cash Amt column in the account's Transaction list but does affect the Cash column in the report".


    I'm only speculating here, but I think at least part of that problem may be that the Transaction List is short one of the columns that the report has. So perhaps we need to look at the meaning of those columns differently in the two places.


    The Cash Amt column in the Transaction List appears to support the Cash Balance; if that is its function, it could not contain a value for a Reinvestment since the Reinvestment does not alter the cash balance.


    The report, on the other hand, does not provide any Cash Balance column, so "Cash" there can take on a somewhat different meaning.


    I'm not saying this couldn't be confusing, nor am I certain that the change was intentional; just looking for a way to evaluate the two displays.
    Quicken user since Q1999. Currently using QW2017.
    Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2019

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    What is the proper way of entering a ReinInt or ReInvDiv in the Tracation Entry.  Should you be entering BOTH the Amount and the Shares columns?  or since it was only shared issued you should only enter shares?
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019

    I assume you are referring to the Cash column in the report, and I see what you mean.

    With this version, a Div adds to cash and a Bought reduces cash, as they should.

    But a ReinvDiv, which should be equivalent to a Div and a Bought, only adds to cash. This looks like a bug to me. 

    You should enter the total amount of the dividend or interest and the number of shares purchased, letting quicken calculate the price per share.


    Check the share price to make sure it is close to the published price. It is normal for there to be a slight difference due to rounding.
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  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2019
    So what is the CASH column in the Investment Transaction Report tracking?  If it is not the cash balance of the account then what is it.  If I run a report for the last year it shows a large negative cash beginning balance.
  • Jim_Harman
    Jim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    It's easiest to see what is going on in the Investment Transaction Report if you subtotal by account.

    The Cash column is not the running cash balance, it is the value of the transaction.
    -- For a Div, ReinvDiv, Sold, or XIn, Cash is positive.
    -- For a Bought or XOut, Cash is negative.
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  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2019
    Here is an investment report that I think has bug in it.  I understand
    what you are saying however I can't figure out why the cash balance would be
    -19,990.41 vs 19.18. The red text was added by me to keep a running total. You can
    ignore the yellow highlights.

    I think the Cash column should still total correctly, should it not?

  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2019
    I just noticed looking at the investment column is easier.  Why does it total 50,000 when the actual total is 29,990.41.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited January 2019
    I support the original notice. The current transaction report is incorrect! Reinvested dividends should be reported as both an income and a related purchase affecting the investment basis as it was prior to the recent update. For each dividend reinvested there should be two lines in the transaction report an income line and a purchase line. 
     
    Upon further review, I find that the problem only applies to reinvestment of _DivInc and _DivIncTaxFree  in my accounts.  The transactions data for ReinvLG, ReinvSh is correct with separate income and  reinvestment transactions .

    Additionally, only reinvestment transactions should report share and price data. Income transactions should not. Ditto with Sold (yes) / _RlzdGain (no) income.


  • I also find that the transaction report does to properly report cash transactions for Actions WithdrawX and ContribX. The lines are in the report but there are not amounts in the cash column. Some do get reported others don't.

This discussion has been closed.