Security value in reports is different than in register following stock split

Cliff HeathCliff Heath Member
edited January 22 in Investing (Windows)
I am using Quicken Premiere 2016 R18.4 on Windows 7 Pro. I have a Fidelity mutual fund that includes a security that had a 10 for 1 stock split on 8/10/18. The only transaction involving that security since then is a Reinvest Dividend on 12/7/18. The market value for this security is correct everywhere I see it in Quicken except when I run a report. For example, if I run the Portfolio Value report as of 12/6, this security has a value of 53,164.19 which is correct. If I run the report as of 12/7, the value is 8,298.17. 

I do automatic updates from Fidelity. Back on 8/10, Fidelity downloaded the stock split as a stock add. I changed this to a stock split and the register and the reports have been correct until the 12/7 Reinvest Dividend transaction. 

In the Security List, I did not have a check mark for this security in the Download Quotes column. I must have overlooked that. The price history looks correct with the prices prior to the split being roughly 10 times those after the split. I ran a price history update and the newly downloaded prices for dates prior to the split were 1/10 of what they should have been. This caused strange effects in graphs and the problem in the reports was still there. So I deleted the incorrect prices from before the split.

I can't seem to find out how the values are calculated in reports that would make them different from everywhere else in Quicken.
I hope someone on here can help me get this straightened out.
Thanks.
Cliff

Comments

  • Tom YoungTom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    " if I run the Portfolio Value report as of 12/6, this security has a
    value of 53,164.19 which is correct. If I run the report as of 12/7, the
    value is 8,298.17. "

    if the number of shares shown are correct then unless Quicken can't do math it seems like the quote price for that day is incorrect.  I assume you've checked that?

  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22
    Several times, Q's quotes provider has provided the post-split prices prior to the actual split. (I.E., on the Ex-Div date instead of on the Div/Split payment date).

    So, when you fund split 10-1, the price was reduced 1-10 ... so that, when done properly, the value of the holding would be unchanged.

    To check your fund's prices, do TOOLS, Security List, click on the name of your fund, click UPDATE and then Edit Price History.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor"
  • Cliff HeathCliff Heath Member
    edited December 2018
    The Price History all looks correct. The math in the reports is definitely wrong but why? Here is a table I created that shows the current portfolio market value for the security in Quicken and the results of the Portfolio Value Report for that security.


    Thanks for your help.
    Cliff

  • Rich_MRich_M SuperUser
    edited December 2018

    Several times, Q's quotes provider has provided the post-split prices prior to the actual split. (I.E., on the Ex-Div date instead of on the Div/Split payment date).

    So, when you fund split 10-1, the price was reduced 1-10 ... so that, when done properly, the value of the holding would be unchanged.

    To check your fund's prices, do TOOLS, Security List, click on the name of your fund, click UPDATE and then Edit Price History.

    NotACPA:  Yes, I saw that with a stock split I had on 12/3.  When looking at my portfolio value prior to the split date, shares were correctly reported pre-split, but the MV was overstated.  

    After investigating, I found exactly what you stated in the price history, the prices were post-split adjusted as far back as 11/27 which was incorrect.

    I was reconciling my account to my 11/30 statement which did not agree due to this.  I manually modified the 11/30 price for this security so I could complete the reconciliation.
    Quicken 2017 Premier - Windows 10
  • Tom YoungTom Young SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    The Price History all looks correct. The math in the reports is definitely wrong but why? Here is a table I created that shows the current portfolio market value for the security in Quicken and the results of the Portfolio Value Report for that security.


    Thanks for your help.
    Cliff

    I'm not sure why you're showing an Excel file when your initial post explicitly referred to the "Portfolio Value report."

    I'd expect to see something like this:

    image

    one for 12/6 and another for 12/7.  You can customize that report down to one security, as I've done here, and that should clearly show us what you are seeing. 

    The two reports should only differ as a function of the extra shares and the one day change in per share prices.
  • Cliff HeathCliff Heath Member
    edited December 2018

    The Price History all looks correct. The math in the reports is definitely wrong but why? Here is a table I created that shows the current portfolio market value for the security in Quicken and the results of the Portfolio Value Report for that security.


    Thanks for your help.
    Cliff

    Because most of the replies were concerning pre- and post split I wanted to show the reports at that time and also the reports at the time of the Reinvest Dividend. I thought that it would be easier for the people trying to help me with this if they could see these results in a table instead of 5 separate report screenshots. I assure you that the values in the table are exactly the same as the reports. I would appreciate more useful comments and less criticism. Thank you.
    Cliff
     
  • Rich_MRich_M SuperUser
    edited January 22
    Cliff Heath: We're not criticizing you, just trying to help you with the problem.  I'm curious about the dividend reinvestment transaction on 12/7, since that seems to be when your balances went awry.

    Please Edit this transaction in Quicken and post the dialogue window which shows the details of the transaction.
    Quicken 2017 Premier - Windows 10
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    My thoughts:


    1. Delete and re-enter ReinvDiv


    2. Restore a backup


    3. Validate including rebuild lots option.
  • Cliff HeathCliff Heath Member
    edited December 2018
    Thank you all for the helpful suggestions.
    Rich M, here is the edit screen for the Reinvest Dividend transaction:

    q.lurker, 1. I did delete & re-enter the ReinvDiv. No change. 2. I have not restored a backup because I would have to redo several hours of entries. 3. I did do a validate with rebuild lots. No errors and no change in the problem.

    Allow me to reiterate that all the values for this security are correct everywhere except in reports.

    I decided to try to establish how the incorrect market value in the reports was calculated and came up with a big clue. The report value for the day of the ReinvDiv (12/7/18) is (incorrectly) 8,298.17. The price listed is correct at 11.41. I guessed that the value of the reinvested shares were likely valued correctly. If you subtract the value of the reinvested shares 3,472.37 from 8,298.17, you get 4,825.80 which would be the value assigned (incorrectly) to the remaining 4,229.45 shares. 4,825.80 divided by 4,229.45 gives a value of 1.141 per share. This is precisely 1/10 of the 11.41 price. It appears that the reports are calculating as if the ReinvDiv was done on the same day as the  stock split (8/10/18) and is dividing the price by 10 when in actuality the price has already been divided by 10.

    I think I need to call Quicken tech support to see if they have a fix.
    Thanks again,
    Cliff

  • Rich_MRich_M SuperUser
    edited January 22
    Cliff Heath:  Your reinvestment transaction looks fine.  I had a similar reporting problem with a stock split due to incorrect price history, but you said you checked yours and its fine.  I don't have any other thoughts on this one right now.
    Quicken 2017 Premier - Windows 10
  • q_lurkerq_lurker SuperUser ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    Thank you all for the helpful suggestions.
    Rich M, here is the edit screen for the Reinvest Dividend transaction:

    q.lurker, 1. I did delete & re-enter the ReinvDiv. No change. 2. I have not restored a backup because I would have to redo several hours of entries. 3. I did do a validate with rebuild lots. No errors and no change in the problem.

    Allow me to reiterate that all the values for this security are correct everywhere except in reports.

    I decided to try to establish how the incorrect market value in the reports was calculated and came up with a big clue. The report value for the day of the ReinvDiv (12/7/18) is (incorrectly) 8,298.17. The price listed is correct at 11.41. I guessed that the value of the reinvested shares were likely valued correctly. If you subtract the value of the reinvested shares 3,472.37 from 8,298.17, you get 4,825.80 which would be the value assigned (incorrectly) to the remaining 4,229.45 shares. 4,825.80 divided by 4,229.45 gives a value of 1.141 per share. This is precisely 1/10 of the 11.41 price. It appears that the reports are calculating as if the ReinvDiv was done on the same day as the  stock split (8/10/18) and is dividing the price by 10 when in actuality the price has already been divided by 10.

    I think I need to call Quicken tech support to see if they have a fix.
    Thanks again,
    Cliff

    The purpose of the restoration is twofold -- does it fix the problem and does it point to a time frame for the issue.  It might entail going back to a backup before the 8/10/18 time frame and recreating the entire sequence for this security.  If you restore from around 12/6 and can successfully put in the reinvestment, something is dinged in your current file and that may be irrecoverable.  A Restore may then be the best option even if there are other consequences and time costs.  

    Another step in a similar direction is to create your only test file - one account, one security, enter the transactions manually.  See what happens.  I'll predict everything will look fine.  That should clarify a program issue vs a data file issue.

    FWIW, in my QW2017 test file, I created that security (FCNKX). The immediate price history looked good.  I entered a buy on 8/9 for 422.945 share followed by a 10:1 split on 8/10.  I entered the same dividend reinvestment.  No issues.    
  • Cliff HeathCliff Heath Member
    edited December 2018
    Many thanks to everyone who responded here. All of you planted seeds of information that helped me find the solution to this problem. To recap, the problem was that the market value of the FCNKX security was different in any reports than the value of that security anywhere else in Quicken. The problem is only in reports as of dates after a 12/7/18 ReinvestDiv transaction and is related to a StkSplit transaction dated 8/10/18.

    The software apparently calculates the market value in reports using a different method than what is used within Quicken itself. The programmers must have had some reason for doing this. The method used in the reports appears to allow for assigning a different share price to shares prior to a stock split than those acquired after. In my case, the current share price was incorrectly divided by 10 for the prior shares despite the fact that the share quantity and share price were already at post-split values.

    q.lurker entered these same transactions into his test file with no problems. This showed that my Quicken file has some sort of hidden, possibly corrupt, and incorrect information relating to the date and quantity of the stock split. I decided that this was likely to be hidden in the Price History data for this security even though the price history itself looked perfectly OK. So working with a copy of my current file, I did the following steps:

    1. Deleted the ReinvestDiv and StkSplit transactions.
    2. Deleted all the prices dated after 8/9/18 from the Price History.
    3. Reentered the StkSplit transaction dated 8/10/18.
    4. Reentered the ReinvestDiv transaction dated 12/7/18.
    5. Downloaded Historical Prices for FCNKX for the last year.

    After each step, I verified that the Portfolio Value report was giving the correct market value for FCNKX. The only remaining problem was that all of the historical prices downloaded in step #5 were divided by 10 including the ones for prior to the stock split. Since in step #2, I didn’t delete the correct prices for those earlier dates, I was able to simply delete the incorrect prices and all is well.

    The bottom line is that the Quicken 2016 algorithms for dealing with stock splits are not working properly in all cases.

    I apologize for the length of this post. I hope it may be useful to someone with a similar problem.
    Thanks again.
    Cliff

  • This issue with stock splits not calculating correctly is clearly a bug.  Is there a bug reporting site for Quicken? 

    Do they care that their product doesn't work?
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