Importing from Quicken Mac 2007 into new Quicken converted my single mutual into brokerage accounts

PershingPerson

I just imported to Quicken Mac Subscription from Quicken 2007 Mac. Been using Quicken since 1988. All my single mutual fund accounts in Quicken 2007 (which meet the criteria of single mutual funds) were converted into Brokerage Accounts with the export into the new Quicken. All the transfers of cash from/into the single mutual funds from brokerage or checking accounts no longer show the source/destination accounts as they did in Quicken 2007 . On top of this, extra lines of transactions of "0 shares" duplicate the transactions which show shares and say cash went into or out of "cash" in the the brokerage account (depending on which way the money went, of course). Is there any way to turn these brokerage accounts back into single mutual funds? Is there any way to show the source/destination accounts?

Quicken Marcus

As far as we're concerned, Quicken Mac (subscription) does support single-mutual funds.  You aren't seeing the transfers because single mutual funds don't have a cash balance and therefore we hide the transfer even though it's actually there under the hood for reporting and other purposes.  This is similar to Quicken Windows that has a BUYX action which is a combination of a Buy and a Transfer.  This is the way we designed the feature so it's working as we designed it.

Is the feature you'd like us to add the ability to see the account where the money came from? I'm guessing the transfer field doesn't show this?  If it did, would this be working as you'd expect?

Quicken_Tyka

Hello PershingPerson,

Thank you for taking the time to come to the Community to post your question, although I apologize that you haven't received a response.

I have a few questions, are the "source/destination" accounts listed in Quicken on the left-hand side of Quicken or are the accounts missing from the file altogether or just the transfer portion?

If the accounts are not missing do you have the transfer column added to each account? To do so, on an account go to "Columns" in the bottom right-hand corner and ensure "Transfer" is selected.

In regards to changing an account to a mutual fund, the 2019 version treats a brokerage account and mutual fund accounts as one and the same.

These are all the investment type accounts that are available. 

 

The image below shows the only mention/option for Mutual Funds.




I hope this is clarifying and please respond back with some more information so the Community can try to help with a solution.

Thank you,
-Quicken Tyka

PershingPerson

Hi Quicken Tyka,

Thank you very much for posting your response to try to help me as I migrate from Quicken Mac 2007 to Quicken Mac subscription. Quicken has been extremely helpful to me for nearly 30 years, and needless to say, I have had my share of rebuilding accounts, files, rescuing info etc. In other words a lot of time and work has gone into Quicken...so it is hard to stop now as Macs are moving to running 64 bit only. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro. It will be able to run Catalina MacOS, but for now I won't upgrade to Catalina and will keep Quicken 2007 going on Mojave to run side by side with new Quicken subscription. I foresee that someday I am going to have to go to 64 bit only and so I want Quicken subscription up and running. Occasionally, I dream that I can somehow keep this MacBook running for another 30 years with Quicken 2007 on it !!

I will try to describe what appear to be my problems right now with migration: the changing of single mutual funds to brokerage accounts, the lack of being able to see the accounts involved in transfers, the apparent link of this problem to accounts hidden at export of my Quicken Mac 2007 file into new Quicken subscription, and the frustrating account transaction lines which record the transfers by some logic that escapes me compared to the simplicity of Quicken Mac 2007.

As for one of your questions, yes, the "source/destination" accounts are listed on the left in the new Quicken Mac.

As an example of what I am seeing, a Roth IRA account that was categorized as a single mutual fund in Quicken Mac 2007, is now categorized in the new Quicken Mac as a "Brokerage" account under "Investing". The source of funds into that IRA, (say a checking account to put in a particular tax year's contribution), is in accounts on the left under subcategory "Cash" of "Banking". The destination of funds from that IRA, (say another IRA for a transfer to another financial institution's Roth), is also under subcategory "brokerage" of investing.

Indeed, as you show, in editing the Roth IRA account in an attempt to change the account from a brokerage back to a single mutual fund , the option of single mutual fund is not available in new Quicken for Mac.

As far as the "transfer" aspect, under "Description/Category" goes, I can't even get the drop down menu to show up to present the "transfer" category for the transactions into or out of the IRA. However, I just importantly discovered that this is only happening with accounts, such as this IRA, that became inactive long ago and were designated as hidden accounts in Quicken 2007 when I exported the file into the new Quicken. An IRA currently in use with transfers into and out of it WILL allow (under category/description) the drop-down menu with "transfer" (to view the list of accounts).

I discovered these problems because I like to be able to have the option to follow the money from one account to the other, even for old accounts that became inactive many years ago. Quicken 2007 Mac made it very easy to follow the money both in the source and destination account (and without having to dig further down to another level in the ledger transaction line); no matter what kind of account, be it a mutual fund, brokerage account, credit card, bank, etc.

Now, for these accounts, and it appears particularly for single mutual funds that were hidden in the Quicken 2007 before export I have TWO transaction lines for the one transaction of money into the account for buying shares (For instance, when I put money into the IRA from a checking account for a year's IRA contribution). The checking account, which was not hidden for the export (and is still my checking account), uses one transaction line and SHOWS the Category transfer Roth IRA account the money went into. However, the Roth IRA, hidden during the export, DOES NOT SHOW in either of the two transaction lines the Category transfer checking account the money came from.

As for selling shares from the same Roth IRA, the account now (even though for selling shares it is treating the cash the same way as for buying shares) uses ONE transaction line, but again, there is no ability to chose the transfer category destination account even though it was not a hidden account.

The solution i have decided as the only one available to me to follow the money from account to account when the transfer category is not available is to use the memo section.

So, for the IRA above, when the money came for a contribution from checking, Quicken defaulted on the export to saying in the memo field on the first transaction line that money was deposited. However in the second transaction line, where Quicken displays the information of purchased shares, the memo section is empty and I put the source account name there.

For outflows from the account which use a single line transaction, Quicken has the memo field empty and I place the destination account there.

Sorry that this answer was so long-winded, but I hope this information enlightens more than it confuses!

PershingPerson

Hi again Quicken Tyka,

Before my last post I neglected to check on your suggestion to check on whether I added the "Transaction" column to each of the types of accounts
I am concerned with.

Though I had earlier tried such columns as cash in, cash out, shares in, shares out, it turns out I, unfortunately, did not did not see and activate the "Transfer" column.

This was a very helpful suggestion as money going into the (Roth example above) account now shows on the first (indicating the deposit) of the two transaction lines (associated with share purchase) the checking account the deposit came from!

However, there still is a problem. The share sales from that Roth described above (an account that was hidden in Quicken 2007 with the export) in a single transaction line does not show the account into which the transfer was made. This account was another Roth IRA that was hidden in Quicken 2007 with the export.

Now, that recipient (hidden at export) Roth Account shows a single transaction with the buy into the account...and it will also not show the Roth account (hidden at export) the transfer came from. Meanwhile, with the sale to close the account, the transfer is indicated as TWO lines, and another Roth account the funds went into is indicated in the "Transfer" column on the first line of the two transaction lines associated with the sale. NOTABLY, this Roth destination account is my current Roth IRA account and was not hidden in the Quicken 2007 migration file (just like my checking account, from which the funds into the very first Roth account indicated the transfer account and used two lines for the transaction).

My hypothesis is that accounts that were hidden in Quicken 2007 at export and then not hidden in new Quicken will not (using one transaction line in the ledger) indicate transfers between them, but they will (using two transaction lines in the ledger) indicate transfers with non-hidden accounts. Meanwhile, the non-hidden accounts will (in one transaction line in the ledger) indicate the hidden accounts the funds went into or came from.

As I indicated above, though it is a little extra work, I am concurrently populating both Quicken 2007 Mac and the new subscription Quicken Mac with my financial information. Solving such types of problems is the very reason for which I have been doing it.

I think it is worth a shot to try exporting the Quicken 2007 file, but this time AFTER I unhide all my accounts.

Quicken_Tyka

Thank you for the response and for providing more details.

I was also going to recommend unhiding the accounts and reimporting as well.

I did want to add that the only "Transaction Type" in a brokerage or investment account that can be transferred is a "Payment/Deposit" so "Buys" and all other types can't be transferred.



That may be why some accounts are not responding to the transfer.

Below is an example, so money would need to be transferred if the current balance is 0.

Then shares could be bought with the money that was transferred. Then the shares could be sold and the money from the sale would then be transferred if need be.



Hope this helps!

-Quicken Tyka

jacobs

Just a few comments:

1) I was also going to recommend unhiding all your accounts in Quicken 2007, then reindexing your Quicken 2007 file (Command-Option-B) for good measure, then quitting Quicken 2007 and re-importing into Quicken 2019. (Make a copy of your Quicken 2007 data file before you do anything, just in case something unexpected makes things worse instead of better.) I should note that whether accounts are hidden or not should have no bearing on how they import into Quicken 2019, but doing it with nothing hidden will remove any doubts about hidden/non-hidden affecting the way your transactions import.

2) I think you understand this now, but since there is no single mutual fund account type in Quicken 2019, all your single mutual funds will import as brokerage accounts. It really shouldn't adversely affect you.

3) I got initially confused by Tyka's comment above that Buy/Sell transactions can't be transferred, but I think I understand now what she was saying, and wanted to add to it in case it wasn't clear to you. In Quicken 2007, you could have an investment transaction which sold shares and moved the proceeds to a different destination account (e.g. you sold shares of an investment and the funds ended up in a money market account). In Quicken 2019, this is always two transactions: the Sell, which creates cash, and the Payment/Deposit, which transfers the cash out of the account to another account.

4) Make sure you make the Transfer column visible in all your account registers; it can get confusing if you have it showing in some and not others. It's annoying that you have to do this in each account one by one, but after you get everything settled, you don't have to mess with it again, so it's a one-time annoyance. (Well, two-time if you're already done it and now go back to re-import your Quicken 2007 data! )

PershingPerson

Hey to both Quicken Tyka and jacobs,

Thank you, Quicken Tyka, for your additional suggestions and thank you as well, jacobs, for joining in and giving your input. You both have helped make pretty clear to me how Quicken subscription treats the import of single mutual funds from Quicken 2007. You have also confirmed my observations of the format for how the brokerage accounts created from those single mutual funds treat transfer transactions.

I can adapt to the new brokerage format now that I see the logic involving cash in the brokerage, and as long as I can get the brokerage accounts (hidden accounts in the export from Quicken 2007) to display the transfers.

I just got home and will try ASAP to unhide the Quicken 2007 accounts and reindex the Quicken 2007 file (as jacobs suggested) before quitting Quicken and importing into Quicken subscription Mac. I always have several backups in both versions of Quicken where I am keeping all accounts up to date. Maybe it isn't necessary, but I will transfer the Quicken subscription file to a backup hard drive, wipe the Quicken Mac data file off my Mac Hard drive and then do the export as discussed into Quicken subscription on my Mac hard drive as if I never had done it before.

I will let you know how it turns out!

jacobs

For what it's worth, you definitely don't need to wipe anything out. Each Quicken file is self-contained, so you can leave the one you already created and create a new one.

PershingPerson

OK thanks for the info....I just backed up to hard drive....and won't remove the Quicken 2019 files. I will just name the new file created from the export something different.

I have to go to my nephew's birthday party in an hour ....so I won't be able to do carry out the unhiding, reindexing and export until after that.

BTW, I looked at another set of Roth accounts at another financial institution that had the same flow from account to account as previously described with accounts; where I went from unhidden checking to a hidden Roth, to a hidden Roth money market, to a non hidden Roth and made the exact same observations to support the conclusion that maybe this has something to do with the accounts being hidden at export. Even if hiding at export isn't the explanation, I may not be able to correct, but I sure know what to look for!!

PershingPerson

The results are in. As jacobs predicted, unhiding the accounts in the Quicken 2007 file and reconstructing the indexes before export into Quicken Mac 2019 made no difference.

I can not think of any other factor to link to the transactions which transfer funds from one account to another but yet will not indicate the source or destination account (as is indicated between other account transfers).

PershingPerson

Strange, as we have been discussing, single mutual funds are converted to brokerage accounts. To see if I could change a transaction which was not registering a transfer I tried to perform a payment/deposit out of one of these accounts. I got the following message: I hope the copy paste of image works.

PershingPerson

Using a copy of my Quicken file, I tested turning off the single mutual fund in that dialog box. In that account, Quicken now allows payment/deposit, shows a cash balance (which it would not do before) and actually does show the account the transfer goes to which I was looking to achieve. However, it created many adjustment to balance transaction lines which I haven't figured out yet.

jacobs

Fascinating. It seems like they partially implemented single mutual funds in Quicken 2019 after all -- at least enough to deal with imported accounts from Quicken 2007 or Quicken Windows. I've never seen this mentioned anywhere (documentation or from users) before.

Without more specific knowledge of Quicken Mac's partial support for single mutual funds, my suggestion would be to convert them to brokerage accounts, go through and make any adjustments you need to get your balances correct, and then you have a clear and easy path to working with Quicken Mac going forward. 

@Quicken_Tyka  I have always thought that Quicken Mac didn't support single mutual funds at all, and that they were converted to brokerage accounts upon import. The screen shot @PershingPerson posted above indicates there is some limited/partial support for imported single mutual funds in Quicken Mac, and when I reviewed the Release Notes for Quicken 2018/2019, there are several references to improving support for single mutual funds. (I previously thought that referenced improvements to importing and converting SMF accounts, not to maintaining them as SMF accounts.) Do you have any additional information that would shed light on how this works? It still isn't possible to create a single mutual fund in Quicken Mac, right? So does it support imported accounts only, but not new ones?

PershingPerson

Perhaps stating the obvious, but I tell me if I am wrong, the answer so far to my dilemma is the reason I can't see transfers from these accounts is because (A) as these accounts are now identified as single mutual funds, I can't implement payments/deposit which enables this with brokerage accounts and (B) there isn't any way (or at least I haven't found it yet) to show the transfers with single mutual funds in Quicken 2019.

PershingPerson

I understand the solution of changing to brokerage accounts. However, I am wondering if it is reasonable to believe that since there is partial support for single mutual funds, perhaps someday it will be more complete support so i can see the transfers and I can save myself a lot of work by just sitting tight for now.

Quicken_Tyka

Hello all,

Sorry, for the delay in response.


At one point there was a checkbox under settings to turn an account into a single mutual fund account. I did find mention that the ability to turn off an SMF account had to be removed because it caused issues.

The release notes for 2019 include fixes for SMF

https://www.quicken.com/support/20182019-release-quicken-mac-subscription-product-release-notes

However, a single mutual fund still cannot be created, from the screenshot that OP posted there appears to be some function for mutual funds.

Unfortunately, I don't have further information on when or if this will be available in the future.

-Quicken Tyka

Quicken Marcus

As far as we're concerned, Quicken Mac (subscription) does support single-mutual funds.  You aren't seeing the transfers because single mutual funds don't have a cash balance and therefore we hide the transfer even though it's actually there under the hood for reporting and other purposes.  This is similar to Quicken Windows that has a BUYX action which is a combination of a Buy and a Transfer.  This is the way we designed the feature so it's working as we designed it.

Is the feature you'd like us to add the ability to see the account where the money came from? I'm guessing the transfer field doesn't show this?  If it did, would this be working as you'd expect?

PershingPerson

Hi @Quicken Marcus ,

Thank you enormously for your response!!!!

Yes, Quicken Mac would be working as I expect, if, from the mutual fund, I was able to see the source account that cash came from upon the purchase of mutual fund shares, and the destination account that cash goes to upon the sale of mutual fund shares. This is the feature I would like to have. Likewise, but it appears to exist (at least if it does not involve another mutual fund), on the other end of these transactions, (from those source and destination accounts) to be able to see the mutual fund involved. Quicken Mac 2007 had this feature (as did the preceding Mac versions I had used since probably early '90's).

With many mutual funds and a long history of these accounts (some of which are still active) it was very convenient to be able to track the movement of funds. As Quicken Mac is now, I have to do a lot of digging around into the other funds to figure the transfers out.

I know you are not promising that you can add this functionality. However, prior to your response I was begrudgingly planning on consuming a big chunk of time on (A) giving another crack at discovering if I could get this to work or (B) rummaging around in my Quicken Mac 2007 (which I am keeping in use alongside 2019) and putting the source/destination accounts in the memo sections of the Quicken 2019 mutual funds.

My only other alternative was keeping 2007 Mac going (inconveniently on Mohave OS10, and an old MAC) and exporting on the blind hope the functionality would be added.

As for the last, you have given me more now than blind hope! I really hope you can add this functionality, and so for now then my plan is to wait for the feature.

Thank you also for definitively answering for us all that mutual funds still exist in Quicken Mac 2019 after the upgrade from 2007, even though a user can no longer select "mutual fund" as a type of account.

PershingPerson

Hi @Quicken Marcus,

While i have your ear, perhaps at the risk of getting greedy, i have one other request.

I know that for individual stock charting in Quicken 2019 we are sent to the internet, but I really miss that in the Mac Quicken 2007 I was able to see a graph of my stocks with my buy and sell actions in my brokerage accounts indicated on that chart. I am so old, and have held some stocks so long, some of my buys and sells predate the chart that comes up off the internet!

John_M

I'm not sure if the following comment adds to this discussion, but I discovered something yesterday regarding this issue.

As Marcus and Tyka say, the Mac version of Quicken does have an option for single mutual fund (SMF) reporting. There is a check box next to the "Type" field in the account setup screen. However, the check box disappears if you have a cash transfer into the account from another account. The reason is that Quicken does not allow a cash balance for a SMF account.

I discovered this when setting up a Vanguard 529 account recently. It defaulted to SMF, which I didn't want, since I like to track the cash into it (both transfers from checking as well as credit card rewards). Quicken kept deleting the opening cash balance I had entered every time I did a download from Vanguard. This happened even after I had unchecked the checkbox for SMF (i.e., the download kept changing the account back to SMF and the checkbox was checked again). It wasn't until I did a cash transfer from another account into the 529 that Quicken stopped trying to make this a SMF. At this point, the checkbox on the account setup screen completely disappeared.

Hope this adds to the conversation. By the way, I'm perfectly happy with the way it is working and don't see a need for it to change, at least for my purposes.

cwiener

Unfortunately, the conversion of SMFs from QM07 to a brokerage account in QM20 has played havoc with my EOY capital gains reporting. QM20 puts in dummy shares for distributions that price each share at $1.00 so it seems like I’m selling huge swaths of the mutual fund with each distribution when I’m selling none at all.

Since the real transfers are hidden by QM20, there’s no way of editing these entries in order to correct them.

What is doubly frustrating about this is when I converted my QM07 file using other non-Quicken software (e.g., SEE Finance and Banktivity), they had no problem dealing with the distributions from the SMFs and correctly entering them without screwing them up.

I already had to go through all my SMFs to correct the dollar balances but I don’t see anyway to fix this issue.

PershPerson

Thanks so much!

I will have to refresh my memory and check out the issue and see if it helps with my situation.

Thanks again!

PershPerson

I am at work so didn't read as carefully as should have. I guess you are having a problem with Single Mutual Funds. I had to learn to live with the results of the conversion. I have too refresh my memory what the problem is, but your sounds like it is related but not exactly the same as mine.