Vanguard converting from mutual fund to brokerage platform - any Quicken issues ?

Peggy Sanders

I got the email the other day about converting from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform. I did that, and everything transferred fine, no issues with account numbers, etc. What I do have an issue with is that my portfolio not only lost all it's historical data (new accounts numbers, so I get that part) but it won't update any new data. I have 1/3/12 month Gain/Loss set and Avg Annual Return. So I understand that until I would have at least a month on the new platform those numbers wouldn't update. However I added the daily Gain/Loss column but even that won't update. The Market Value does update, so that's correct, but I like to track my overall picture. Has anyone ran across this issue? If so, any ideas how to fix it?

Peggy Sanders

Wanted to add, I am running Quicken 2017 Premier Version R19.7 Build 26.1.19.7 on Windows 10.

Quicken_Tyka

Hello Peggy,

Thank you for taking the time to visit the Community to post your issue although, I apologize that you haven't received a response.

If you are still needing assistance with your Vanguard account no longer updating, can you provide a bit more information?

Have you received any error messages?

What happens when you try to update?

How are you updating? Are you running an OSU or "Update Now" directly from the register?

If you haven't already, please try updating the account by clicking the gear icon in the Vanguard register and selecting "Update Now" and tell us if this updates the transactions.

Thank you,

-Quicken Tyka

Peggy Sanders

I do still need assistance and I'll be honest, I wish I wouldn't have done this change to this platform until forced to do so.
I get no error messages, everything runs as normal as if it will update.

When I update using the "Update" button in the Investing tab, it pulls up the screen that says it's updating, but then nothing updates.

I update in 2 ways, for the day to day changes, like market updates, etc I use the Update button in the Investing tab. If I'm trying to update because I bought mutual funds then I use the download option in Vanguard. I did a purchase the other day and it's like Quicken and Vanguard are no longer talking.

I'm not sure what you mean by "...clearing the gear icon...", though I'm thinking you meant click the gear icon, but my gear does not have an "Update Now" option.

I'm attaching 2 pictures, one picture is how my portfolio looks on my computer now after the switch. Where all the zeros are...yeah, those used to have all kinds of numbers in them. The other picture shows that on 4 Nov all of my funds were changed to this brokerage platform, on the two that are opened, those are the 2 funds that should show a purchase from the other day...nothing.

q_lurker

First Question -- 
What changed in your account structure?  Before you had 3 accounts at Vanguard Mutual Fund services that each held 4 (or so) different mutual funds.  Your Quicken account structure matched the real world account structure.  After the changes at Vanguard whereby three Vanguard Brokerage Service (VBS) accounts were created and populated, what did you do on the Quicken side?

(I would have disabled the three accounts from online services and then enabled them for online services from VBS.  Thus I would still have had three accounts but there would be nothing tying them to the Vanguard Mutual Fund services.)

Second Question -- 
What transactions are showing related to this change?  

Ps56k2

How can I tell - if I log into my Vanguard online account -
that I have the legacy mutual fund account platform -
or the newly migrated brokerage account platform ?

Peggy Sanders

> @q_lurker said:
> First Question -- 
> What changed in your account structure?  Before you had 3 accounts at Vanguard Mutual Fund services that each held 4 (or so) different mutual funds.  Your Quicken account structure matched the real world account structure.  After the changes at Vanguard whereby three Vanguard Brokerage Service (VBS) accounts were created and populated, what did you do on the Quicken side?
>
> (I would have disabled the three accounts from online services and then enabled them for online services from VBS.  Thus I would still have had three accounts but there would be nothing tying them to the Vanguard Mutual Fund services.)
>
> Second Question -- 
> What transactions are showing related to this change?  

q_lurker, I suppose the biggest change is that each individual mutual fund had its own account number. When the platform changed, they moved all of my "like" accounts under one account number. So, my Roth has a new number with my 4 accounts under it, same with my husbands, one new number with 4 accounts under it, and my non-retirement mutual funds, one number with 4 accounts under it. Before I would download from Vanguard into each individual account. With the new structure Vanguard only gives the option to download into one account, presuming the new account numbers.
The first time it came up after the conversion it told me I had new accounts, so I created new "titles" for those combined accounts.

The only transaction showing regarding this change is it "removed" all of the shares from the old accounts and "added" them to the new account. That's it, nothing has updated since and I can't get it to update or download any new purchases since the conversion.

Tom Young

I'm confused.  Can you open a backup file that shows the structure of the Vanguard holdings before the change and post that? 

You said "each individual mutual fund had its own account number."  When I translate that into how that would be structured in Quicken that says to me that you would have 4 Quicken Investment Accounts, each with one mutual fund in it.  (Maybe you misspoke and really should have said "each mutual fund had its own fund number"?) 

But if you really did have 4 Quicken Accounts, each with one fund in it, and Vanguard then "consolidated" those 4 funds into 1 "mutual fund" account, then I'd expect that you'd have 4 "Removed" actions - one in each of the old Accounts - and 4 "Added" actions, all of them in a new Quicken Account. 

If that's what happened, then you didn't lose all your historical data.  That data is still there, sitting in the 4 old Accounts where the transactions actually took place.  But automatic updating doesn't "follow" the mutual funds as they migrate to the new Quicken Account, you need to enable the new Account to accept downloads from Vanguard.

Peggy Sanders

> @Tom Young said:
> I'm confused.  Can you open a backup file that shows the structure of the Vanguard holdings before the change and post that? 
> You said "each individual mutual fund had its own account number."  When I translate that into how that would be structured in Quicken that says to me that you would have 4 Quicken Investment Accounts, each with one mutual fund in it.  (Maybe you misspoke and really should have said "each mutual fund had its own fund number"?) 
> But if you really did have 4 Quicken Accounts, each with one fund in it, and Vanguard then "consolidated" those 4 funds into 1 "mutual fund" account, then I'd expect that you'd have 4 "Removed" actions - one in each of the old Accounts - and 4 "Added" actions, all of them in a new Quicken Account. 
> If that's what happened, then you didn't lose all your historical data.  That data is still there, sitting in the 4 old Accounts where the transactions actually took place.  But automatic updating doesn't "follow" the mutual funds as they migrate to the new Quicken Account, you need to enable the new Account to accept downloads from Vanguard.

Peggy Sanders

> @Tom Young said:
> I'm confused.  Can you open a backup file that shows the structure of the Vanguard holdings before the change and post that? 
> You said "each individual mutual fund had its own account number."  When I translate that into how that would be structured in Quicken that says to me that you would have 4 Quicken Investment Accounts, each with one mutual fund in it.  (Maybe you misspoke and really should have said "each mutual fund had its own fund number"?) 
> But if you really did have 4 Quicken Accounts, each with one fund in it, and Vanguard then "consolidated" those 4 funds into 1 "mutual fund" account, then I'd expect that you'd have 4 "Removed" actions - one in each of the old Accounts - and 4 "Added" actions, all of them in a new Quicken Account. 
> If that's what happened, then you didn't lose all your historical data.  That data is still there, sitting in the 4 old Accounts where the transactions actually took place.  But automatic updating doesn't "follow" the mutual funds as they migrate to the new Quicken Account, you need to enable the new Account to accept downloads from Vanguard.

Yes, I do have 4 removed and subsequent added lines in each one. I showed you in one of the pictures what I mean by historical data. Yes, I still have the old accounts that show my buys and sells over the last almost 20 years, but I don't have anymore the gain/loss over the 3-12-Avg annual return anymore.

If there's something special I need to do to enable downloads from Vanguard, I'm certainly not finding it. I've gone through my settings and I cannot find anything that isn't allowing the downloads to happen.

volvogirl

May I ask you about Vanguard?  I have VG mutual fund accounts too.  What email did you get?  From who?  Why or how were you forced to move to the brokerage accounts?

Bob_L

At the bottom of your register for the new vanguard account, click on the small arrow on the right side to open the downloads section of the register. There should be a button there to set up downloads for that account.

Greg_the_Geek

ps56k said:

How can I tell - if I log into my Vanguard online account -
that I have the legacy mutual fund account platform -
or the newly migrated brokerage account platform ?

@ps56k

If it says "Transition this account" below the account title


Or "Upgrade"


it's still a Mutual Fund Account and not a Vanguard Brokerage Account.

Peggy Sanders

> @volvogirl said:
> May I ask you about Vanguard?  I have VG mutual fund accounts too.  What email did you get?  From who?  Why or how were you forced to move to the brokerage accounts?

The email was from Vanguard. Over time they're converting everyone to this new brokerage platform. I guess it's been happening slowly, but I believe eventually everyone will be on this new platform.

Bob_L

@volvogirl  They call it an “upgrade”, and you should see links on your account pages on their web site inviting you to “upgrade”.  My experience has been that if you push back they will leave you alone, or in my case they may be just waiting for me to die!  I threw them a bone by just doing it for our Roth accounts so maybe that helped as well.  When I did those Roth changes I basically did it all in Quicken and then deleted the vanguard downloads.

Peggy Sanders

> @Bob_L said:
> At the bottom of your register for the new vanguard account, click on the small arrow on the right side to open the downloads section of the register. There should be a button there to set up downloads for that account.

I don't have a small arrow at the bottom of my register, I do have an arrow by the gear at the top. And I tried doing the One Step Update through the Update tab, but still my new transactions are not downloading.

I have always gone through Vanguard and did the download through them.

I really don't care how I do it, I just want something to work.

Peggy Sanders

> @Bob_L said:
> @volvogirl  They call it an “upgrade”, and you should see links on your account pages on their web site inviting you to “upgrade”.  My experience has been that if you push back they will leave you alone, or in my case they may be just waiting for me to die!  I threw them a bone by just doing it for our Roth accounts so maybe that helped as well.  When I did those Roth changes I basically did it all in Quicken and then deleted the vanguard downloads.

I'm wishing I would have just left them alone.

Greg_the_Geek

Do you have a backup you could restore? When Vanguard converted my accounts, I just deactivated Online Services and then reactivated and linked the new account to the old one. Everything downloads fine.

Peggy Sanders

> @Greg_the_Geek said:
> Do you have a backup you could restore? When Vanguard converted my accounts, I just deactivated Online Services and then reactivated and linked the new account to the old one. Everything downloads fine.

Were you already downloading into a single account? I've always done separate accounts. So now with the conversion, it's taking 4 separate account numbers and putting them under 1 account number. If you go up a few posts, I attached some screenshots to Tom Young's post that show what I mean.

But on the off chance, I restored my last back up before this change, I went through and changed the account numbers to the single account number and deactivated the online services. However when I try to restart web services, it wants to link the single account number to an account, but I have 4 accounts under that one account number now, so I can't link to all four, I can only link to one.

Bob_L

My mistake it is on the left side, but you don't need to use that.  Just click on download transactions right next to it.

Peggy Sanders

> @Bob_L said:
> My mistake it is on the left side, but you don't need to use that.  Just click on download transactions right next to it.
>
> (Image)

The only thing I have there is the Placeholder Entries.

Bob_L

In the problem file,  not the backup,  Right click on that account name in the account bar and choose Edit/delete account.  Then go to the online services tab.  What does it show?

Peggy Sanders

Ok, so I just went through Quicken and I deactivated the online services and then restarted it. I re-linked my accounts to their new numbers. Then I received this in my Placeholder Entries spot, these are the two buys from Friday...If I still have to go in and enter the cost of the shares then I may as well just do a manual entry from the start.

So frustrating.

Peggy Sanders

> @Bob_L said:
> In the problem file,  not the backup,  Right click on that account name in the account bar and choose Edit/delete account.  Then go to the online services tab.  What does it show?

Greg_the_Geek

Peggy Sanders said:

> @Greg_the_Geek said:
> Do you have a backup you could restore? When Vanguard converted my accounts, I just deactivated Online Services and then reactivated and linked the new account to the old one. Everything downloads fine.

Were you already downloading into a single account? I've always done separate accounts. So now with the conversion, it's taking 4 separate account numbers and putting them under 1 account number. If you go up a few posts, I attached some screenshots to Tom Young's post that show what I mean.

But on the off chance, I restored my last back up before this change, I went through and changed the account numbers to the single account number and deactivated the online services. However when I try to restart web services, it wants to link the single account number to an account, but I have 4 accounts under that one account number now, so I can't link to all four, I can only link to one.

No, I have 4 accounts with 4 different account numbers, before and after the conversion. If you're going to enable Online Services, you should login to vanguard.com and check the account numbers there.

Peggy Sanders

> @Greg_the_Geek said:
> (Quote)
> No, I have 4 accounts with 4 different account numbers, before and after the conversion. If you're going to enable Online Services, you should login to vanguard.com and check the account numbers there.

I know the account numbers. That's not the issue.

Here was pre-conversion, I always selected download into individual accounts:
Non-retirement funds (Account numbers are just made up):
Vanguard 500 - Acct 0249
Vanguard Global - Acct 0358
Vanguard Mid-cap Growth - Acct 4459
Vanguard Mid-cap Index - Acct 2149

Post-conversion
Vanguard 500 - Acct 143
Vanguard Global - Acct 143
Vanguard Mid-cap Growth - Acct 143
Vanguard Mid-cap Index - Acct 143

So, all of my funds are now bunched up under one account number. And the same is true for the Roth accounts.

Greg_the_Geek

I'm confused. I have (and had before conversion) 4 accounts with unique account numbers. A Brokerage account, a Mutual Fund account, an IRA account and an Inherited IRA account. Each account has one or more funds with same accounts have the same fund. I guess you need to contact Vanguard and ask why 4 accounts became 1 account.

Tom Young

I realized I misspoke in my reply above where I said you should see one "Removed" action in each of the old Accounts and four "Added" actions in the new Account.  While the first half of that statement is correct, you really should be seeing many "Added" actions in the new Account, an Added action for each lot of each security contained in the old Accounts.

Is that what you are seeing?

Here's my Roth IRA at Vanguard:

and here's how that Roth IRA appears in Quicken's Holdings:

There are no "account" numbers attached to the various funds at either Vanguard or in Quicken; there are simply 3 securities.  So I'm confused by any notion of "account numbers" appearing in your new Quicken Account and perhaps that's part of the problem here. 

If the securities have been properly transferred out of the old Accounts and into the new Account, then enabling downloads into the new Account should work.

Bob_L

I agree with what Tom Young said.  Based on what you said about recent “buys”, though needing cost basis I believe you may be set up correctly assuming those buys are really “add” actions in the new account.  If so then BACKUP FIRST.  Then you can delete the removed actions in the old accounts and delete the add actions n the new accounts.  Finally go to  each old account, select enter transaction, pick transfer shares, and transfer all of them to the new account.  That will properly create add transactions in the new account that include your cost basis.

Peggy Sanders

Ok, I may have to go back to my 30 Oct backup and start again.

Tom Young

"Ok, I may have to go back to my 30 Oct backup and start again."

@Peggy Sanders

I'd avoid that if I could as that would lose 11 days of activity in all your other Accounts.

Back up, then delete the Removed actions in the old Accounts and delete the Adds in the new Account. 

(You can do multiple "deletes" by clicking Reports > Banking > Transactions and customizing the report to only look at the one Account.  Then you can select multiple transactions in the same fashion you can do that in Windows, right click on your selection and delete the transactions.)

At this point you might as well delete everything in that new Account; you'll have to manually enter any buys that got deleted, but that's a small number of transactions and easy to do.

Then go to the old Accounts an select "Shares transferred between accounts" and move everything to the new Account.  That should get you to the right starting point.