File Operations | Year End Copy

dave344

I have Quicken 2017 Deluxe with data going back to 1992. It works remarkably well but I am planning to upgrade to the current version soon. I want to use only the 2017 data forward in the new version and I am trying to create a file containing only that data with the Year End Copy feature. However I can't seem to get it to work properly. The QDF copies and it is smaller in size but as far as I can tell, all of the transactions are still there, even the reconciled ones. This includes accounts that have not been used in decades and were reconciled and dormant since. I was expecting the accounts to be empty of transactions and then I would just delete the account shell. I have the same problem with the regular copy, I specify a date range but it does not appear to have any effect on the transactions saved in the resulting copy. Also it does not appear that I can export a subset of my data to a QIF file for import into a new file. So what are my options if I want to truncate the range of my data to four years before I upgrade to the new Quicken?

Chris_QPW

On the reconciled transactions that didn't go away, are they transfers?
If so did you check the "other side" of the transfer to make sure is is reconciled too?

Chris_QPW

P.S. QIF export does allow for a date range, but I certainly wouldn't recommend using a QIF export/import for this purpose. It leaves a lot behind, and is extremely difficult to get everything correct. It would only a "last resort" kind operation.

dave344

Thanks Chris. For me only one side is typically reconciled. I think this would be the case for something like a checking account. When writing checks the credit would be to the asset (bank account) and the debit would typically be to an expense (category). I don't think you can reconcile categories (expenses)? If not, these transactions would never be reconciled on both sides and apparently left untouched by the Year-End Copy process. If that's the case, this does not appear to be a very effective way of closing out a year. What do you think I should do? I suppose I could go through every account, set the balance at 12/31/16 as the "Beginning" and then delete all the prior transactions? But even if I were to be very meticulous in my work, I imagine such a heavy-handed approach would probably give rise to some "internal inconsistencies" and I'd be living with the consequences forever more. I appreciate any thoughts you have on the issue.

splasher

If you are making transfers in Quicken, then it is going to an account in Quicken, that account can be reconciled.  There is no reason for every transaction in Quicken to not be able to be reconciled, even investment transactions.

And yes, you do not reconcile categories, you reconcile transactions, categories have nothing to do with reconciliation.

See this FAQ about YEC: FAQ - Year End Copy

dave344

Thank you splasher that makes sense.

I made sure every account (about 60) were all reconciled. I then did the YEC again and got the same results: older accounts with transactions that were reconciled were still in the truncated file. I validated the data prior to the YEC and got no significant errors (QDF: Validating your data. No errors. QEL: No read errors. QEL:Removed 7 qel records for payments not in register)

Do you have any idea why YEC is not working for me?

splasher

How about a screenshot of one of those reconciled transactions that was not removed?  If not a screenshot, at least a listing of the field and its contents and the type of account that it is in?
If it is a transfer, the category would have square brackets [ ] around an account name, go to that account and provide screenshot/info on the mating transaction.
Keep in mind, the Quicken YEC process does NOT remove any investment type transactions but it will remove non-investment transactions involved in transfers to an investment account if the investment account transaction is reconciled.

dave344

Thank you splasher. Do you think the transaction shown in the attached image should have been truncated? It involves three reconciled accounts (mortgage, escrow and bank) and an expense category (mortgage interest) and was recorded in 1992. If I understand properly, I would think this transaction should have been dropped in the carry forward file but it was not. Do you have any thoughts as to why it remains?

splasher

@dave344
My compliments on a good, complete, composite set of screenshots.
I see no reason why that transaction and the other ones associated with it from being removed by YEC.  I don't believe that I have seen this situation yet.
I know you said you did a validate, did you try a super-validate?  You do it by holding down the CTRL+SHIFT keys when doing initiating the validate.

Chris_QPW

I tried to reproduce this problem with a split transaction that transfers to two different accounts, and I couldn't.

Given that even the copy doesn't work for you, which allow you to blow away transactions even if they haven't been reconciled even investment transactions (blowing away investment transactions tends be a bad idea given they are used for lot assignment), I would have to assume there is some kind of corruption in your data file the prevents it from finishing. I have seen reports on people saying that they have got such errors and the year end copy doesn't complete.

In reference to if you can do this manually.
I don't thing there is a lot of "magical" things going on in the background, but my main concern would be transfers to investment accounts. As in just like year end copy does, I wouldn't recommend removing investment transactions (because of the security history). But that will mean that transfers in and out of these investment accounts will become unbalanced and you might have to adjust at least the opening balance.

I just looked at what they do for year end copy, and let me say I don't like it.

What I'm seeing is that "broke the link" in the transfer.
If you look at the transaction in the screenshot I enclosed the transfer in transaction is still there and the transfer account is still [USAA Checking 6379], but if I try to go to the other side of that transaction you get the error reported in the second enclosed screenshot, and of course it isn't really in the USAA Checking account.

BTW just like a lot of the long time users/SuperUsers here I never use year end copy except for testing when these questions come up. In my testing there is very slight performance gain by removing transactions, but the one or two seconds here and there was never worth it to me. Maybe removing investment transactions would have more performance gains, but year end copy doesn't remove them anyways because of the complications of the fact that you could have shares still in a lot that you still own. And this would only apply to someone that has a lot of transactions/securities in a given account. And I think a better approach for that account would be to transfer the active securities to new account (in Quicken only). But that would also depend on the fact that you aren't a long term buy and hold person, because you would end up transferring almost everything in that case.

dave344

Thanks to both of you for helping me out with this issue. I should have mentioned that I am currently running Quicken 2017 Deluxe. I am cleaning up my files in anticipation of upgrading to the new version this week.

To put things in perspective, I should say it is amazing that this application/database has functioned as accurately and reliably as it has for 28 years. I don't know if there is another accounting package on the planet that can truthfully make that claim. It has gone through numerous upgrades and migrations without any real loss of integrity. The reports and data have always been consistent (e.g., the income statement accounts for the year to year differences in the balance sheets, all the accounts balances, etc). It's not perfect. I've got some issues with a few investments and there is an old auto loan account that when I click on it will crash the entire program. But for many years the program has functioned well for me and required very little time or maintenance. However, I know that if I continue to go forward with this many years of data that eventually all the small cumulative errors and inconsistencies will bring it down. The question is whether to wait and deal with it then or try to be proactive and do a clean up now before I upgrade.

Right now the jury is still out. The super validation is running now and I'll see if that gives me any insights. I've now spent the better part of two days on this so I'm thinking tomorrow I will go ahead and just do the upgrade on the full file and see what things look like from there. After I upgrade I should have access to technical support and they might have some special tools that enable them to "get under the hood" and tweak things we can't see.

Thanks very much Chris and splasher for you help with this.

splasher

dave344 said:

…After I upgrade I should have access to technical support and they might have some special tools that enable them to "get under the hood" and tweak things we can't see.
…

You may not know this, but I can see into the future on some things.  I predict that support will advise you to just start a new file and keep the old one for reference.  

dave344

The super validation report is entirely clean:
[Tue Mar 31 18:50:50 2020]
File: "C:\Users\dave\Documents\Quicken\FRICK"
QDF:
Validating your data.
No errors.
QEL:
No read errors.
QEL:
All internal consistency checks passed.
[Tue Mar 31 18:58:47 2020]
1 scheduled transactions corrected
[Tue Mar 31 18:59:13 2020]
Rebuilt investing lots.
Super validation has completed.

Chris_QPW

I would bet that Splasher's prediction is correct. Quicken Inc's support isn't unique in quickly (too quickly most times in my opinion) suggesting starting over. I remember after several years of using Quicken I talked to a co worker that was using MS Money. He was having problems and the support said that it was their policy to start a new data file every year (can you believe that!). His something like 2 year old file was 10 times the size of my 5 year old file.

There have been times where they will bring out the "big guns" and really dig into a data file, but it almost never happens. There was one time a few years that Quicken was corrupting data file, and mine got corrupted. I was willing to have my data file as the "guinea pig", (not even "sanitized"), and multiple people(including the CEO) worked on it trying to determine the root cause and fix it. They did identify the problem and provided a solution, which for most people was "restore from a backup from a month ago, and use the new patched Quicken that didn't do it". But in the process they actually fixed my data file.

In the meantime while this was going on I was pursuing doing a full export using QIF and import into a new data file.

The major obstacle I ran into was that there was no way to get the transfers to match correctly. That is what got me to create "ChangeTransfers" and this webpage, and the discussion in the thread that is linked in this forum (actually in an old forum where then move the old pages to this one).
http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/changetransfers.html

The idea there was to just change the transfers into regular categories which in book keeping terms just as viable as linked transfers.
You can read that thread in the forum to get an idea of all the pitfalls. Here is the direct link in this forum.
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7450045/i-just-succeeded-in-recreating-my-data-file-using-a-qif-export-import

Interesting enough that QIF import produced a data file that was 1/2 size.

And so yes short of something like this most likely almost every long time user's data file has at least some data corruption in it.

The one thing I will point out about upgrading though is that unlike with Intuit, Quicken Inc hasn't changed the data format (they probably extended, but not changed what existed in the past) since Quicken 2016. You can take a "Quicken Subscription data file" and use it with Quicken 2016/2017.

So it is much less likely than in the past that updating to the a newer version of Quicken will cause the same "conversion problems", since there isn't any.

thecreator

Hi @dave344 , and All,

I wonder if Hidden Accounts and Hidden Transactions in Closed Accounts are preventing Quicken Year-End Copy and Copy from working correctly?

dave344

Thank you theCreator but this does not appear to be an issue in my case.

dave344

Thank you everyone for all the fine support. After listening to commentary by experienced users, I have decided to go forward with all my data intact. With investments and other issues, year end closings seem to be too problematic. So I will proceed with the upgrade with my original file (after some data cleansing) and we can close this thread. Thank you again for your assistance.