Data File Password during "upgrade"

Bob.

No problem. No rush. I am just trying things that come to mind and reporting in.

Bob.

OK. I have news, but VERY hard to describe:

2017 - I create a reminder. All good. Then I add an online biller. Then link. All as expected. Done.

2020 - I deleted a biller which was showing as BOTH online and manual after trying to unlink and relink. Then deleted the reminder. All good. But note for this biller I had entered and made a payment that was sent and should post in 3 days - so that is for this specific biller.

So, I try to add a reminder. Now it asks me to add a biller and asks online or manual. This is while I just want to create a reminder. New options!!.

So I choose Online. It creates the Biller as if I was adding a new biller for Online billers. But no reminder! The existing reminder that shows as paid for 4/23 is not editable as they used to be. So, what to do? I create a new MANUAL reminder.

Now I can edit the reminder just as I wanted to. But now there are two Billers -the online and the Manual. I choose to link the Online to the reminder and the manual goes away. Now looks like I would expect for this biller and reminder. BUT - I do have two reminders. The one showing paid on 4/23 and the one showing DUE on 4/23. The online Biller shows Due Soon.

So, for grins I try to refresh that biller only. Take a long time and I get  biller added - waiting for latest update. But the Due Soon has not changed. Normally that would change to Awaiting next bill.

Not sure what that all tells us, but it is so different and reacts so different.

Hope it helps someone.

~Bob

Bob.

More info:

My working system shows pdf's for all my credit cards in Online Billers.
My test system shows none. Aside from the playing with billers and reminders, both systems are identical.

Why would this be?

~Bob

Bob.

Posted in another topic and here to keep it together. Has me baffled!

This is the closest topic I can find so perhaps this can help me.

Just upgraded from 2017 to 2020. I have it installed on two computers. They both use the virtually identical data file with the exception that my "testing" machine has one online biller linked, unlinked etc a few times.

The working machine shows pdf statements for all credit card accounts BOTH in Reminders AND online Billers.

The test machine shows some pdf statements in Reminders and NONE in online Billers.
What could possibly be the difference?

I have updated all billers, refreshed from biller for some, tried everything I can find that's obvious.

So now another Online Billers issue. REALLY looking forward to getting this working and moving on. Can't say it wasn't expected that Billers would be where issues were to be found. An incredibly useful feature (in my top 3) and yet the most fragile.

~Bob

Bob.

Been working hard on all of these things. So many things gone wrong I have not kept track. But for examples:

1.  Adding the same biller twice with two different names not by me.
   
2. Linking a biller to a reminder from months or years ago with different amounts than I had been using in 2017 or even recently in 2020. And using due dates that had changed months or years ago.

But, one good thing is that somehow working through these the pdfs show in both files. I have started using one now in both working and test computers, though neither is perfect. Hopefully yet.

New issue, Billers is showing the next amount due from the reminder. However, and this is BIG, if I click refresh all Billers, most reminders then drop their $ values to 0.00!! And then the Biller goes back to awaiting next bill. Was never like this. I constantly have to change the reminders back to the proper amounts.

Last, a payment came in that was sent in 2017 version. It did not show in the last payment category on Billers after accepting the match.

Now, from above:

"Now I can edit the reminder just as I wanted to. But now there are two Billers -the online and the Manual. I choose to link the Online to the reminder and the manual goes away. Now looks like I would expect for this biller and reminder. BUT - I do have two reminders. The one showing paid on 4/23 and the one showing DUE on 4/23. The online Biller shows Due Soon."

I think this was caused by having a paid bill not yet matched and a reminder for the same day. I changed to the reminder to the next month and that fixes the reminders, but can screw up the Billers tab.

Time to sleep..

Quicken Anja

Thank you for the updates!

I did some digging around and found a few things. 

As I mentioned yesterday, I reverted back to a few of the previous version releases to see if I noticed any difference in conversion with Bills and Income-- there was none. I went back 4 versions and the result was the same each time. So, I do think that there's an issue with the conversion process and bringing over Bills and Income data.

What I did end up figuring out though, which I admit is not the most pleasant way to spend time, was that the only way I was able to correct the issues from the conversion was to delete every single reminder/bill and add them new again for it to properly function.

In regards to the "Last Payment" column, it took me a little longer to catch on to really understand why it wouldn't show the last payments that were made and already showing within my account register (from before the conversion). I clicked on "Enter" next to the one bill that showed an amount due with the dialogue "Due Soon" for one that is due today. Turns out that once it is paid and added to the register, that's when the amount for "Last Payment" reflects.

I also tried deleting the online biller that showed "Due Soon" and recreated it as a manual reminder by right-clicking a transaction for that biller that was already paid and in the register. It would create a reminder with the amount due reflecting the amount of the already paid transaction in the register that I used to create it. I decided to ignore the amount and linked the reminder to the online biller again. That updated the amount to the correct amount due, but still never gave an amount in the "Last Payment" column until I hit "Enter".

My conclusion on this was that the new program does not seem to recognize which payments from those billers are already paid and in the register (entered before the conversion) nor which payments the online biller has a record of on their end. So, I believe the "Last Payment" column will only update going forward rather than pick up on the history that was already in the data file prior to the conversion.

As for the "Awaiting Next Bill", I had this dialogue for every single online bill I added/linked except for the one that is due today. That one did show the correct due date and amount. I then compared the others that still have the dialogue to my accounts on the billers' websites. Each one that said "Awaiting Next Bill" did not show an amount due on my online accounts with them, except for one. Although, that particular one didn't have a payment due, instead has a pending credit that is being applied instead of requiring payment from me to be made. So, that could have something to do with it, but I am unable to confirm that until it updates next month and has an amount due to be paid.

So, in conclusion for this particular part of the issue is that the bills will remain to say "Awaiting Next Bill" until there is an amount due reflected on your online account from their website. Which may also not reflect in Quicken for up to 2-3 business days after it has been updated on the biller's website.

You can review this support article about that. It also includes troubleshooting steps to try if the bill still does not reflect an amount due after the above-specified timeframe has passed from when the biller website updates the amount due. If you decide to try those and it still doesn't resolve the issue, that would potentially require an escalation to be done. For that, you will need to contact Quicken Support.

So, overall, I believe it's working as it should after deleting them all and adding them back in as new. The only thing I'll have to wait for would be to confirm that "Awaiting Next Bill" will update to show an amount due whenever the biller's website reflects an amount due.

Lastly, I just want to add this support article for you to review with more information on the Online Bills feature.

Hopefully, this or at least some of it is useful to what you're experiencing since your issue with Bills and Income was slightly different from what I encountered after converting. 

-Quicken Anja

Bob.

Thanks Anja.

This will not be fun

Tell me a few things please:

1. What is the proper way to do this?
    Create online biller from the Reminders? Or...
    Create online biller from the billers tab?
NOTE: From reading your links seems to do from Billers and after adding use that dialog to create the reminder.
   
Any other gotchas here? This is the only way forward? Seems like a major glitch and how could it be I am the only one to find this problem?

2. Did you try to do a one step update with upcoming payements due as I showed to you? Did that reset the reminders to 0? If so, need to figure that before I do all this. I have never seen an update reset the reminder $$. Would you confirm this works for you please?

So, after your reply I should delete all Online Billers and all Reminders - (any order?)    And one by one go to each Biller and recreate everything. I need to note the dates, amounts, splits, pay froms, etc so some busy work before I try.

I do not understand what you are saying here:

"I also tried deleting the online biller that showed "Due Soon" and recreated it as a manual reminder by right-clicking a transaction for that biller that was already paid and in the register. It would create a reminder with the amount due reflecting the amount of the already paid transaction in the register that I used to create it. I decided to ignore the amount and linked the reminder to the online biller again. That updated the amount to the correct amount due, but still never gave an amount in the "Last Payment" column until I hit "Enter". "


I will not be as available today as usual. Would appreciate after our next dialog if you would continue to watch this until it seems to be working.

Thanks again. You are much appreciated.

~Bob

Quicken Anja

No problem, Bob!

There are a few ways of going about this. I'll go over the routes that I thought seemed the least time consuming and easiest way of going about.

I deleted the reminders and billers from the Bills tab and started with removing online billers first and then went down the list and deleted each reminder one by one. Removing an online biller will turn it into a manual reminder afterward. So, after removing the online billers, when you go and check back in the Bills tab, you will notice that they are still there as a reminder which will need to be deleted as well. The only way to remove online billers is done by following the pathway shown in the screenshots below. 



I did also discover that when you unlink a biller rather than remove a biller from the list shown above, that's when it "creates" a reminder AND also keeps the online biller which I believe is what was happening with yours yesterday when you described it to me. The next screenshot below shows what it looks like after I chose the option to unlink instead of remove.



Once you have the Online Billers removed and go back to the bills tab, as I mentioned above you will see that they are still there as reminders instead of linked bills now. That's when you will go down the list and remove them by choosing "Delete this and all future instances". 


After you have them all deleted and are ready to start adding them again-- the best way I find to do this without having to write down all your splits and categories is the process of what you quoted from my previous response, which I apologize, after reading it again I realize now that I made that sound much more complicated than I needed to. So, what I did was go into my account register and searching/finding a transaction for a bill that was already paid in the past and created a reminder for it, then linked it to the online biller. See below.





As for your question about running a One-Step Update and having the reminder amounts reverted back to a 0 value-- I believe that happens when the reminder itself has been saved with a 0 value which will cause that reminder to also continuously reflect a 0 value for any future reoccurring reminders, unlike with Online Billers where you get the "Awaiting Next Bill" dialogue instead. You can check this when editing the reminder by choosing "Edit this and all future instances" and it should automatically show the value it is saved under in the "Edit Bill Reminder" window.




I hope this helps give you more clarity. Let me know if I missed anything or need to clarify anything else!

-Quicken Anja

Bob.

Hi Anja,

First question, do I need to delete manual bills and redo or should I just to be prudent? I am going to start this in an hour or so.

"The next screenshot below shows what it looks like after I chose the option to unlink instead of remove."

Bingo! That should be documented."I apologize, after reading it again I realize now that I made that sound much more complicated than I needed to."

NEVER apologize for being a great support resource!

"As for your question about running a One-Step Update and having the reminder amounts reverted back to a 0 value-- I believe that happens when the reminder itself has been saved with a 0 value which will cause that reminder to also continuously reflect a 0 value for any future reoccurring reminders,"

No. I have all reminders set with dates, splits, dollar amounts, etc and for a brief moment they showed in Online Billers. A One Step Update removed all the dollar values and set to 0 for all the reminders. Consistently.

I will have to do one and test before I do all off mine.

I think creating reminder from the paid bill may have the wrong due date, split, etc. I think i Will have to create from the online billers tab. Unless you think I am wrong here.

Going to try tonight.

As mentioned, how can you and i be the only ones with these issues?

Appreciate you.

~Bob

Bob.

HI Anja,

Some major weirdness's here. Let me 'splain

Deleted all Online Billers (kept the manuals - did not see why to delete these)
Deleted all reminders for the Online Bills
Even closed, then reopened Quicken.

Added back 9 Billers. No problems.

Now, started to add Reminders from the link to biller, create new reminder.

Entered Well Credit Card set to due 5/28 and 28th every month, $25.00 as a place holder. Saved it. It immediately changed the reminder to 0.00 and due 4/22!! I edited all instances. OK for now, but I am afraid that a one step update will cause havoc. Will see. But more...

Set a reminder for Xfinity. It tried to populate it with a monthly amount I haven't paid in well over a year, maybe more. I edited to proper amount and edited split..

Added AMEX for 5/7 with 0.00 in the reminders. Saved. It came up 4/22!! I had to edit all instances.

Will do the rest, see what happens, then update. I'm concerned this is a problem.

~Bob

Bob.

Finished rebuilding billers. Several more glitches:

Entered utilities and saved it changed to due 4/22 and 0.00. A repeating theme here changing a new reminder to today regardless of date chosen.

Same on another credit card identically. As well, mobile phone bill. Same thing.

Another credit card I entered as JUNE 9 and $750 saved itself as 35.00 and May 9th.

Corrected these and they look right for the moment.
I will now close Quicken. Save a backup. Reopen and see. Then run One Step and see.

Bob.

Well, one step screwed up most of the billers. I will PM you screenshots. Set several reminders to 0.00. Set a few from a June due date to a May due date. And as mentioned in setup, saving a reminder would almost always change the date to today and I would have to change it again.

So I have no idea what to do now. It is not as it was in 2017. It is not how I set it. I am unsure if it will straighten out.

Can use some more help please Anja. Look for a message.

~Bob

Bob.

OK, light of day. This is what I think.

1. Creating a reminder incorrectly changes the date to today regardless of twhat date is chosen. Editing all instances resets to the desired date.

2. The reminder is entered as the data into Online Bills.

3. When One Step Update is performed, it overwrites the Reminder changing both the date and the amount to 0.00. For example, I know I have already paid a bill for May so i set the reminder to June. After update, it sets to May. "Most" of the time it changes the amount as well.

2017 did not act this way. Update never changed the Reminder unless it went from due to paid. And the Billers were not tied to the reminder for Date and Amount.

All make sense? To me seems like two bugs.

And no pdf's again. No idea how they appeared previously then disappeared again.

~Bob

PS. You were correct. Creating the reminder from the register works and is a bit easier. I created all from the Billers dialogs to recreate and make sure all accurate.

Bob.

Friday Update:

A bill has come in. It did not mark the Biller as paid, but it was scheduled from Q2017. It says "awaiting next bill" in Bills.

Now this is interesting:

I have a bill due on 5/1 which is an EFT from a Credit Card. It was entered into the register from Q2017. In Reminders shows paid. Looking at this and future from reminders shows the proper EFT from the proper credit card.

When I look at this from Billers it shows Awaiting Next Bill. So I tried to click "Pay" to see what it would do and it shows to pay from my Checking and no way to change that. No option to select the Credit Card Account. So this is totally wrong! And could be serious. If I tried to pay from Bills and Income it would result in paying twice as I would be sending a payment as well as an auto debit to my Credit Card.

So since this is an EFT and does not send, but enters as a reminder, I unlinked the Biller and reminder. Deleted the entry in the register and reset the reminder that shows to be paid by the credit card to next month 5/1 instead of the 6/1 that is showed as the next Reminder. Went to pay from Billers and still shows can ONLY be paid from Checking. Entered as a reminder so it shows Paid in Reminders and still wrong account in Bills. So I looked at the only other bill that is NOT paid by Checking and it, too, shows from Checking as the only option.

So the relationship between Reminders and Bills and Income continues to find ways to be broken.

I wonder what will happen if I hit ENTER on an Manual Bill with no link? Will it let me choose account? I do not have any due that are not from Checking until July. OK, had to see knowing I could restore. An UNLINKED bill allows me to select any account to pay from. BUT a LINKED bill only allows my to choose Checking when paid from Bills and Income.

This has to be a big clue to the root of all the Reminders/Billers issues I am seeing.

Just a reminder. I did delete ALL Reminders and ALL Online Billers as noted above. So this is starting from scratch in 2020. And badly broken.

I really need help....

~Bob

Bob.

OK, there is so much above I thought I would put all discovered and ongoing issues in one post. If anyone else has any of these issues, would be good to know and might help get some attention from the developers.

2020 Billers Issues.

1. Create a new Online Bill.
    Create a Reminder for this.
    Save the Reminder.
    Most times saving changes the date due to today and the amount due to 0.
    Fix as appropriate and save. It sticks now.
2. Do a One Step Update
    The Date Due can change on a whim. Usually a month earlier than you choose
    If the amount was not set to 0 above, then likely is now.
3. Attempt to pay a bill From Online Billers that is set properly in the Reminder as an EFT from a credit card.
    The ONLY option is from the Checking Account
    The Reminder is proper with the Credit Card
     All Manual Bills allow the choice of what account to pay from when entered from the Billers tab
4. While pdfs of statements showed briefly when originally converted from 2017, no pdf statements appear in Billers now..
5. No paid and cleared Biller (only two so far) shows anything in the last payment column of the Billers tab. One came in since creating new Billers and REminders, but was paid from 2017.

I am now totally out of sync with the number one or two reason I use Quicken -scraping bills, using reminders and paying to debit the paying account and credit the owing account. Cannot be the only one. Wish it were better tested and I am available for hire.


~Bob

Bob.

I wanted to update one of the items above as answered.

"3. Attempt to pay a bill From Online Billers that is set properly in the Reminder as an EFT from a credit card.
    The ONLY option is from the Checking Account
    The Reminder is proper with the Credit Card
     All Manual Bills allow the choice of what account to pay from when entered from the Billers tab"

This is correct. Online Bills pay from the account setup for Direct Pau and Manual Bills allow the choice of which account to pay from.

What threw me is that Manual Bills were never shown in the Bills tab in 2017. They were only in Reminders. So I would get a paper or electronic bill and enter the payment from Reminders choosing the account and correcting the amount to pay. The ONLY difference here is that in 2020 it also shows in Bills Tab so it confused me that only the MAnual bill could change account and not the Online bills. This is working properly.

Still working through other issues, but making progress

~Bob

Bob.

I have learned a lot, documented many changes and some issues with Bills and Reminders when Upgrading. I think that deserves its own thread and will start one now.  Hopefully it might help some making that change from the expiring Quicken 2017 to 2020 Subscription as well as help me with continuing glitches since my update.

Thanks!

~Bob

Bob.

New thread here:

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7875101/update-from-2017-to-2020-bills-and-reminders-issues-and-observations/p1?new=1