Can't update transaction for an investment; relationship between "Type" and allowed "Category"?

CyborgOne

I've recently upgraded Quicken Mac 2017 to the subscription version, and figured it was about time I cleaned up my categories - decades of custom modifications (as well as the use of now-obsolete default categories from previous versions of Quicken) have made my file rather unwieldy. I would like to standardize on consistent use of the default categories which the latest Quicken defines, with only a very-few customized categories remaining for my own needs. So, I'm reviewing older transactions, and trying to change the category for most, hoping to apply the "correct" current categories, so I can purge and delete the older, undesired, and soon-to-be-unused categories.

But in trying to do so, Quicken actively prevents me from assigning categories which I know exist in the list (!). Note that my particular focus is often on updating Investment accounts (IRAs, brokerage accounts, etc.) to try and remove the obscure "dot categories" which were previously a part of Quicken (e.g. "•Div Income", "•Int Income NT", "•Long CapGnDst"), and want to change them to the current categories, which all appear to be subcategories under the "Investments" category (now "Dividend Income", "Interest Income Tax-Free", "Long-term Capital Gain").

But, when attempting to modify the Category to one of these "Investments" sub-categories, Quicken will NOT allow me to change it to one of the expected values: Trying to select from the pop-up, or manually type in the category name, will only show me the single "Investments:ESPP Income" subcategory … which is NOT what is desired. I can literally see these other subcategories in my Category list - so why don't they appear when attempting to update these transactions?


** In reading further, I found the following discussion:
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7875228/changing-imported-interest-income-categories-to-investments-income-q-mac

…which appears to be closely related to my issue. It seems there may be a relationship between the "Type" of transaction which is recorded, and limitations on the allowed "Category" for that transaction. But, this is very nebulous, and not clearly documented.

Can someone clarify details on the "rules" involved in such updates, and what process should be followed to change such transactions to utilize the newer Categories?

jacobs

@CyborgOne  I can answer your last question: the "dot prefix" categories for investments date back to Quicken 2007. When the modern Quicken Mac cam out in summer 2014, it did not use those categories. So this isn't exactly new, but it's new if you've recently migrated from the old Quicken 2007.

Also, all my investment transactions did migrate to the new categories automatically. That's because the investment transaction Type determines the categories. 

In the example you showed, the Type is Payment/Deposit. But if the Type was changed to Interest Income, then the category -- which is not editable -- would be changed to the Investments: Investment Income category for you. 

As you've discovered, the Investments categories are used internally by Quicken, and we mortals can't manually assign transactions to them. I'm guessing it has to do with how this data is used in reporting, but I don't know for sure. But I realized I don't see the old "dot prefix" categories in my transactions, except a few where I manually coded a stray checking transaction as interest income for reasons I can no longer recall. I changed those to Personal Income>Interest Income, and then if I enter "•Int Income" in the Search box with All Transactions selected, it doesn't find any such transactions. So aside from the four "dot prefix" accounts you have which Quicken things are in use, you can delete all the others to reduce clutter. I've just left the three I have which Quicken says are in use (even though I can find only one of them in use). It would be nice if Quicken would allow us to merge the old categories into the current ones, but again, I suspect the developers are protecting the way it does certain reporting or calculations 

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @CyborgOne

Thank you for taking the time to visit the Community to post your issue, although I apologize that you haven't received a response.

The categories for investment type transactions cannot be edited or removed.

The Investment Categories can be found under Window > Categories under "Investments.

In the below example I created a new category and attempted to move this category under the investments section and was unable to do so.



The only way to enter a custom category on an investment account is to use the "Payment/Deposit" Type this will then allow any category to be assigned.

I hope this helps to clarify!

-Quicken Tyka

CyborgOne

Thanks Tyka.

But to be clear: I am not looking to modify an existing category, or to change the predefined (and "Required") subcategories under the "Investments" heading at all. I'm actually just trying to APPLY one of those subcategories to an existing transaction - and have been stymied in this attempt, due to undocumented limitations which are apparently in place.

See the enclosed screenshot: I have the same "Investments" subcategories as you've shown in your screenshot, but am not able to apply any of them to the chosen transaction, other than (inexplicably) "ESPP Income" - which is not what is desired. This transaction also has the "Payment/Deposit" Type selected, exactly as you've indicated above.

Why - i.e. in what situations - are known categories NOT able to be applied to a transaction?

CyborgOne

Looks like the enclosure was removed; here is it again - along with a shot demonstrating all the "Investments" subcategories which should be available to me.

CyborgOne

And, another related question: When did Quicken move away from the "dot prefix" categories, and why was there no transition plan to automatically migrate them to the new "Investments subcategory" approach - rather than forcing the user to pursue this effort manually (as I'm trying to do now)?

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @CyborgOne

Thank you for the response and for including a screenshot.

Investment type categories can only be used with an investment type action, I.E. Buy, Sell, etc.

When using the "Payment/Deposit", this creates a transaction that is similar to a banking transaction and does not allow for an investment type category to be used.

Unfortunately, I am unable to provide the "why" of how this came to be as well as they move from the "dot prefix" categories, I can really only speak to how it functions now.

I do apologize for not being able to provide more insight.

-Quicken Tyka

jacobs

@CyborgOne  I can answer your last question: the "dot prefix" categories for investments date back to Quicken 2007. When the modern Quicken Mac cam out in summer 2014, it did not use those categories. So this isn't exactly new, but it's new if you've recently migrated from the old Quicken 2007.

Also, all my investment transactions did migrate to the new categories automatically. That's because the investment transaction Type determines the categories. 

In the example you showed, the Type is Payment/Deposit. But if the Type was changed to Interest Income, then the category -- which is not editable -- would be changed to the Investments: Investment Income category for you. 

As you've discovered, the Investments categories are used internally by Quicken, and we mortals can't manually assign transactions to them. I'm guessing it has to do with how this data is used in reporting, but I don't know for sure. But I realized I don't see the old "dot prefix" categories in my transactions, except a few where I manually coded a stray checking transaction as interest income for reasons I can no longer recall. I changed those to Personal Income>Interest Income, and then if I enter "•Int Income" in the Search box with All Transactions selected, it doesn't find any such transactions. So aside from the four "dot prefix" accounts you have which Quicken things are in use, you can delete all the others to reduce clutter. I've just left the three I have which Quicken says are in use (even though I can find only one of them in use). It would be nice if Quicken would allow us to merge the old categories into the current ones, but again, I suspect the developers are protecting the way it does certain reporting or calculations 

CyborgOne

What an *incredible* response, @jacobs - thank you so much!!!

Yes, I have been using Quicken for several decades at this point, and know that I was certainly using Q2007 previously, before upgrading to (I think) Q2015, then Q2017 (each in their respective release years), then finally the latest subscription version (in the last month). Unsure why the "dot prefix" categories didn't get migrated to the new categories at some prior point, but you are correct: There are only a few remaining transactions against these, in my data file.

Of course, I suffer from CDO (it's kind of like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order - THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE! ;-), so I am compelled to try and clean all of these up. The goal is to have a consistent set of categories for similar transactions, to help with searches and reports - so I don't have to consider multiple categories for such queries, depending on the age of the transaction (i.e. which version of Quicken I was using at the time).

Your information about changing the TYPE of the transaction, and subsequently having the Category be assigned appropriately, is exactly the information I needed. I'm walking through many of these (admittedly, older) transactions now, and correcting them as I find them. I think I'm well on my way to updating all which are needed, and then will purge the soon-to-be-unused categories, at that point.

Again, thank you SO MUCH for the great insights, and details on how to address the concern! I wish there was more official documentation on these limitations, but am incredibly happy to have SuperUsers such as yourself to fill in the gaps for us. Kudos once again!