When i calculate networth, two of the "closed accounts" are included and show a negative balance

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Networth Report is Incorrect.

RichKruegs

Hi, i'm still having networth calculations. Specifically, I have about 30 accounts between credit cards, investments, etc... I addition i have about 10 "closed accounts" When i calculate networth, two of the "closed accounts" are included and show a negative balance. In addition 2 accounts (they are both schwab accounts) have different numbers than what is in quicken. If I move the closed accounts to "hidden" they don't show up, so its a workaround (not ideal). I have no idea why the balance in the schwab accounts in the networth report is different than what is in quicken.

Jim_Harman

It sounds like these are two separate problems. Let's work on the closed accounts first. If you look at the closed accounts in Quicken, are the current share balances and cash balances all zero?

RichKruegs

just saw this, it must have been in my junk mail - sorry. The closed accounts show zero balance in the normal view but when i run a networth report, some of them show a negative balance.

RichKruegs

here is an example of closed accounts and how they look in my home page

RichKruegs

this is an image of the accounts "negative balance" when i run a networth report

NotACPA

You can still use the register in those closed accounts.  So why don't you open one of them and see what the numbers inside of the account shos.

RichKruegs

the number is zero in the register, i already checked

RichKruegs

per above , here is a picture of one of the registers. It's zero but in the networth calculation is shows a $-81,973.38 as the balance.

Frankx

Hi @RichKruegs,

Can you tell us which version of Quicken (Win or Mac) as well as the version and build of your OS?

Also did this issue recently show up, or has it been a problem for some time?

Thanks,

Frankx

UKR

RichKruegs said:

per above , here is a picture of one of the registers. It's zero but in the networth calculation is shows a $-81,973.38 as the balance.

Is the Net Worth Report dated as of Today or as of some other date in the past or future?

If these closed accounts are investment accounts ... is it possible you have incorrect Price History records for one or more of the securities once held in these accounts?

Jim_Harman

Also how do you access the report? Is it via the Reports > Net Worth and Balances menus or via the Property and Debt tab?

The seemingly identical report accessed via Property and Debt has produced odd results in the past.

RichKruegs

per the last couple questions: 1. Yes, the networth report is as of today. 2. I don't know how to check for accurate price history records, but since there are no securities or cash in the accounts i do not understand why there is any balance and only when you run the networth report. For instance, the networth calculation that summarizes the "all transactions" tab on the left, is different than the networth calculation under reports->networth. the different being these closed accounts. 3. Yes, i access networth via Reports>Networth

Jim_Harman

What kind of accounts are the problem accounts? I have seen problems with long-inactive employee stock option accounts for example.

Also please do a File > File Operations Validate and Repair if you have not already to see if that fixes it.

RichKruegs

The accounts are closed brokerage accounts (I xferred to a different broker). I did the validate and repair operation and it did not correct the problem. One interesting thing to note is the negative amount that shows in the networth report on these closed accounts changes everyday (i assume this is associated with changes in stock prices). However, there are no stocks or cash in these accounts (i can see that both in the register and under holdings).

Jim_Harman

Are there Placeholders in these accounts? Go to Edit > Preferences > Investment transactions and make sure Show hidden transactions is checked to make any Placeholders visible.

To see if there are particular transactions in these accounts that are causing problems, you can change the ending date for the Net Worth report to see when the balances start to disagree with the actual account balances, then zero in on transactions near that date. Sometimes deleting and re-entering a transaction will clear up a problem. As always, back up your data file before messing with historical transactions.

Also you have not said what version of Quicken you are running. Some earlier versions had reporting problems related to split cash transactions.

And of course you can customize the net worth report to simply exclude the problem accounts, but that would just be hiding the problem.

RichKruegs

Thanks Version 27.42 build 27.1.27.42 I am almost certain there are placeholder transactions but going back in time and fixing all those is a lot of work and I don't understand why, when one closes and account (which is suppose to zero balance the account out) results in zero balance in the main "all transactions" column on the left but a non-zero balance when you run a networth report. In any event thanks for all your help - i know you didn't write the program. I'll probably just have to live with this until they either fix the bug or i get motivated to go back in time and fix placeholder transactions or delete/reenter.

Jim_Harman

I'm not sure the placeholders are causing your problem but if you go back in time hopefully you can find what is causing it.

RichKruegs

i looked at one of the accounts. its is a mystery. in any event, this is a bug that should be fixed. zero account balance should be zero account balance going forward:-)

Jim_Harman

I agree it is a bug.

I am trying to help you find what is causing the discrepancy, so you can hopefully make your reports balance. This may also help others who are having similar problems, and perhaps even help the Quicken developers resolve it.

To clarify the approach if you want to give it a try, you would

-- go to the register for one of the problem accounts and click on Holdings

-- Open the built-in Net Worth report (not a version that you have customized and saved) and observe that the balances are different

-- Set the As of date in the Holdings view and the date for the Net Worth report back in time until the balances agree.

-- Move the dates forward until they disagree.

-- Look for a transaction in the account near that date that causes the disagreement. Is there something unusual about it - unresolved Placeholder? Stock split? Share class conversion? Merger, acquisition, or spin-off? Return of Capital? Expired option? Transfer to/from an unknown account?

-- Back up your data, then try deleting and re-entering the transaction and let us know what you learn.

Good luck!

RichKruegs

ok, so i went through one of the accounts, isolated the problem to 9/5/2014 (very tedious process). there were two transactions on those dates. created two new transcations and deleted the original two. Still same problem. then ran data valiation and repair. still the same problem.

RichKruegs

by the way the two transactions were pretty benign, one was a dividend and one was a stock sale