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How to get from Fidelity 401k to multiple accounts by the source?

mikek753

hi all,

my company retirement Fidelity account has 3 sources:
1. 401k - before tax
2. 401k - after tax
3. Roth - after tax

but, quicken downloads all those into single account, and as result tax planner does work and etc planning as all those transactions are marker as 401k before tax only.

how I can have correct split for my company Fidelity account on Quicken side to 3 accounts?

BTW - in my paycheck I track both before tax and after tax, but I specify the same Fidelity account for the cash

how to address this Fidelity specific issue?

thanks

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Comments

NotACPA

When you log into Fidelity directly ... what shows there?

Also, what Q product are you running and what BUILD of that product? Do HELP, About Quicken for this info.

mikek753

hi,

Quicken H&B 27.1.27.42

at Fidelity for my company there is 1 account that has 5 sources
, while for 2 tax types before and after taxes

in the transaction history by source I can see what and where
as there is the Source column that shows the source #
like

01 - PRE-TAX DEFERRALS
10 - ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION
08 - EMPLOYER MATCH

but, this is single account from Quicken side and all transactions are ignored the source # and loaded into single 401k before taxes account type, which is incorrect.

I need the split that the source 01 will got to 401k type and 10 to Roth type in my Quicken

from Fidelity -
"A source is the origin of your money in your retirement plan. Examples of sources include: employee contribution (the money you contribute), company match (the money your employer may contribute), and rollover money (the money that you may have rolled over into this plan from a prior employer-sponsored retirement plan or an IRA)."

this isn't unique for Fidelity company plans 401k plans to have 1 account and multiple sources, as in prev company I had worked for it the same.

thanks

Jim_Harman

For some FIs Quicken tracks the source using a short list - Roth is not included - but it is not very useful. For example there is no way in Quicken to report on your holdings in each sub-account.

In theory you could create a different account in Quicken for each source, but this would get messy very quickly. For example when there is a dividend you would have to split it among the various accounts.

When the time comes to start taking distributions from a 401(k) I think most people who have substantial Roth holdings roll over the 401(k) to separate Traditional and Roth IRAs so they can take RMDs just from the Traditional account leave the Roth money invested as long as possible.

mikek753

thanks for the reply

those are exact my problems :-( , that I asked how to solve in the Quicken

no, nothing I can do on my company Fidelity account
it's suppose to be common issue and I hope it's addressed somehow by now

no, moving Roth out of current 401k isn't the option for me ether, as future contributions and also 401k have far better legal protection vs IRA

yes, I was thinking to move transactions manually from downloaded account to manually tracked for Roth, didn't worked out ether

in the download it comes as blob instead of multiple records per source per contribution per ticker

are there any finance planning software / services that understand Fidelity sources?

Jim_Harman

I have a similar problem trying to separate out the Roth part of my 401k. I generally just go to the FI website and look at it there.

mikek753

yes, I can look at Fidelity
but, my tax and long term planners in Quicken just don't work, which I need

NotACPA

@mikek753, what exactly is a "transaction history by source" report ... and how can I create one? Step by step, please.

I'm not aware of any such report in Q.

mikek753

hi NotACPA,

thanks for the reply.

I was about Fidelity that has the Source
the Q. doesn't have the Source and isn't aware of it at all.
that was my main question - how to make Q to be Fidelity account Source aware?

this is example from my company Fidelity account:

06/24/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Dividend VANG SM CAP IDX INST $149.23 2.195
Sources Amount Number of Shares
PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $76.79 1.129
CATCH UP $20.70 0.305
EMPLOYER MATCH $23.64 0.348
ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION $28.10 0.413

05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions INVS INTL SMID CP T2 $1,997.91 134.994
Sources Amount Number of Shares
AFTER TAX CONTRIBUTION $1,997.91 134.994
05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Balance Forward INVS INTL SMID CP T2 $0.00 0
Sources Amount Number of Shares
AFTER TAX CONTRIBUTION -$1,997.91 -134.994
ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION $1,997.91 134.994
05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions VANG STRATEGIC EQ $1,427.08 56.473
Sources Amount Number of Shares
PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $1,427.08 56.473
05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions VANG SM CAP IDX INST $1,427.09 23.212
Sources Amount Number of Shares
PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $1,427.09 23.212

the Q. (Quicken) shows all above transactions as the same type and isn't the source aware. And as result no split between before tax and after tax - all are the same.

what else I can provide to make it more clear about the issue I have with Quicken?

thanks
Mike

NotACPA

OK, I'm a Fidelity customer also. How do I get to that info at Fidelity.com?

mikek753

hi NotACPA,

this isn't Traditional IRA or Traditional Roth IRA, but 401k Plan

you need to have 401k company plan that allows before and after tax contributions, also rollover from former company 401k
company match / contribution to your 401k

https://workplaceservices.fidelity.com/mybenefits/savings2/transactionhistory/detail

summary->transaction history

harris15213

As others have commented, some 401k providers (eg: Prudential) provide source information, but its useless from a quicken perspective.

What I do?
- Download the transactions to Quicken as-is. So, for Fidelity, that means one big messy account that includes all the transactions combined.
- I create manual accounts in quicken that, every so often, I update to reflect the value of the source contribution. So, for example: fidelity_sub_roth, fidelity_sub_pretax, fidelity_sub_aftertax.
- I use the sub accounts in scenario planning and do not include the NetBenefits account.

If you'd like your account bar/net assets to look correct, just mark the sub accounts as "Keep this account separate"

Jim_Harman

Good idea on the separate sub-accounts, @harris15213

If you haven't already, I suggest you set up the sub accounts as Traditional or Roth IRAs so that Quicken will treat them properly for planning purposes.

When it is time to start taking distributions from your 401(k), you would probably roll it over into separate Roth and traditional IRAs anyway, so this approach is reflecting that likely future state.

mikek753

Yes, I agree that is interesting idea
I'll try to follow your recommendations, especially how to omit NetBenefits to "Keep this account separate".

Is there easy way to Copy appropriate transactions from NetBenefits with OnLine sync to those new manual "sub" accounts?

so far I see one complication due to Paycheck that has transfer to my NetBenefits account, and if I'll omit NetBenefits account than how it will effect my Checking account Paycheck transfer.
Will it effect?

thanks

Jim_Harman

With this approach, you shouldn't be copying transactions from the NetBenefits account, you would leave that as it is.

You would only set the NetBenefits account as "Separate" and enable the manual accounts for planning purposes.

mikek753

hello Jim,

sorry, I don't understand :-(
if I'll not copy transactions from the NetBenefits to the sub Roth account than how the sub account will have those shares and "Total Market Value"?
yes, the paycheck has transfer directly to sub account and total of xfer should be used for those funds / shares buy

what I'm missing?

it's complicated a bit for me, as includes conversion in the NetBenefits from After Tax to Roth and I can't make the balance correct as result for a while :-(

thanks
Mike

Jim_Harman

OK, say Fidelity's website says your NetBenefits account has a total of 100,000 and 65,000 of that is pre-tax and 35,000 is Roth.

In Quicken, it is all one 401(k) account but the Lifetime Planner assumes it is all pre-tax, so its tax projections and withdrawal strategy are not accurate.

You would like a reasonably painless way to make the Lifetime Planner take the pre-tax/Roth breakdown into account.

1) Create a bogus security called "NetBenefit Assets" or whatever with a share price of $1.00. You can set the asset allocation for this security to match the allocation in your NetBenefits account.

2) Create two new manual accounts, one a Traditional IRA and one a Roth. You might call one "NetBene-pretax" and the other "NetBene-Roth." When Quicken asks what securities are in each account, enter 65,000 shares of the bogus security for the Traditional account and 35,000 for the Roth account.

3) For each of the new accounts, go to Edit Account Details, select the Display Options tab, and check the Keep this account separate box.

You now have two new accounts totaling the same as your NetBenefits total but they are not included in your net worth or other reports.

4) Continue sending your new contributions to the NetBenefits account and downloading transactions as you currently do.

5) Periodically Add or Remove shares of the bogus security to/from the new accounts, so that their individual and total balances are correct.

6) When you would like to run the Lifetime Planner, check the Separate box for the NetBenefits account and un-check it for the new accounts.

The Lifetime Planner should now make correct assumptions about the assets in your NetBenefits account. Remember to change the Separate designations back when you are done.

mikek753

hello Jim,

thanks a lot for the info.
what's the reason to NOT keep check the "Keep this account separate" box for NetBenefits all the time?
what I'll loose by keep it separate?

Jim_Harman

If it is Separate, it will not be included in your net worth and other reports. You could leave the manual accounts enabled instead, but they will not be as up to date as the NetBenefits account. It's your choice.

mikek753b

hi all and Quicken,

it has been 5 years, but I'm unaware of any improvements or implementations by Quicken to address this 401k multi source issue.

Can Quicken create new 401k Wizard, like it has for a Paycheck, where a User can select and assign appropriate account and split for each 401k transaction?

Blaming Fidelity isn't helping, also Fidelity will not make related changes to accommodate Quicken, IMHO.

My Paycheck already have 2 accounts for my 401k, one is in before tax section and another is in after tax section.

All I need is ability to split and assign Fidelity transaction to appropriate before or after tax my 401k account.

BTW - the same long standing ask is to track after tax / Roth 401k properly in the Long Time Planner, which ignores Tax Free Roth type, but shows and counts it as before tax deferred.

[Deleted User]

@mikek753b there is a reason why it's been five years. And it's not the fault of Quicken. Quicken is and was never made to do what you are asking. Being a 401(k) provider is tough and the complexity goes beyond the realm of anything discussed in this Quicken forum.

That is why your retirement accounts on Quicken should be at the fund level only and all other information should come from your retirement account, that your retirement provider set up for you and gets tons of money for.

The only thing I fault Quicken for is allowing users to continue to think that balance or activity by source or money type is remotely possible on Quicken.