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How to get from Fidelity 401k to multiple accounts by the source?

hi all,

my company retirement Fidelity account has 3 sources:
1. 401k - before tax
2. 401k - after tax
3. Roth - after tax

but, quicken downloads all those into single account, and as result tax planner does work and etc planning as all those transactions are marker as 401k before tax only.

how I can have correct split for my company Fidelity account on Quicken side to 3 accounts?

BTW - in my paycheck I track both before tax and after tax, but I specify the same Fidelity account for the cash

how to address this Fidelity specific issue?

thanks
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Comments

  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    When you log into Fidelity directly ... what shows there?
    Also, what Q product are you running and what BUILD of that product?  Do HELP, About Quicken for this info.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    hi,

    Quicken H&B 27.1.27.42

    at Fidelity for my company there is 1 account that has 5 sources
    , while for 2 tax types before and after taxes

    in the transaction history by source I can see what and where
    as there is the Source column that shows the source #
    like

    01 - PRE-TAX DEFERRALS
    10 - ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION
    08 - EMPLOYER MATCH

    but, this is single account from Quicken side and all transactions are ignored the source # and loaded into single 401k before taxes account type, which is incorrect.

    I need the split that the source 01 will got to 401k type and 10 to Roth type in my Quicken

    from Fidelity -
    "A source is the origin of your money in your retirement plan. Examples of sources include: employee contribution (the money you contribute), company match (the money your employer may contribute), and rollover money (the money that you may have rolled over into this plan from a prior employer-sponsored retirement plan or an IRA)."

    this isn't unique for Fidelity company plans 401k plans to have 1 account and multiple sources, as in prev company I had worked for it the same.

    thanks
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    For some FIs Quicken tracks the source using a short list - Roth is not included - but it is not very useful. For example there is no way in Quicken to report on your holdings in each sub-account.

    In theory you could create a different account in Quicken for each source, but this would get messy very quickly. For example when there is a dividend you would have to split it among the various accounts.

    When the time comes to start taking distributions from a 401(k) I think most people who have substantial Roth holdings roll over the 401(k) to separate Traditional and Roth IRAs so they can take RMDs just from the Traditional account leave the Roth money invested as long as possible.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    thanks for the reply

    those are exact my problems :-( , that I asked how to solve in the Quicken

    no, nothing I can do on my company Fidelity account
    it's suppose to be common issue and I hope it's addressed somehow by now

    no, moving Roth out of current 401k isn't the option for me ether, as future contributions and also 401k have far better legal protection vs IRA

    yes, I was thinking to move transactions manually from downloaded account to manually tracked for Roth, didn't worked out ether

    in the download it comes as blob instead of multiple records per source per contribution per ticker

    are there any finance planning software / services that understand Fidelity sources?
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a similar problem trying to separate out the Roth part of my 401k. I generally just go to the FI website and look at it there.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    yes, I can look at Fidelity
    but, my tax and long term planners in Quicken just don't work, which I need
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    @mikek753, what exactly is a "transaction history by source" report ... and how can I create one?  Step by step, please.
    I'm not aware of any such report in Q.
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    hi NotACPA,

    thanks for the reply.

    I was about Fidelity that has the Source
    the Q. doesn't have the Source and isn't aware of it at all.
    that was my main question - how to make Q to be Fidelity account Source aware?

    this is example from my company Fidelity account:

    06/24/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Dividend VANG SM CAP IDX INST $149.23 2.195
    Sources Amount Number of Shares
    PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $76.79 1.129
    CATCH UP $20.70 0.305
    EMPLOYER MATCH $23.64 0.348
    ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION $28.10 0.413

    05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions INVS INTL SMID CP T2 $1,997.91 134.994
    Sources Amount Number of Shares
    AFTER TAX CONTRIBUTION $1,997.91 134.994
    05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Balance Forward INVS INTL SMID CP T2 $0.00 0
    Sources Amount Number of Shares
    AFTER TAX CONTRIBUTION -$1,997.91 -134.994
    ROTH IN PLAN CONVERSION $1,997.91 134.994
    05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions VANG STRATEGIC EQ $1,427.08 56.473
    Sources Amount Number of Shares
    PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $1,427.08 56.473
    05/15/2020 ⊖ Hide Details Contributions VANG SM CAP IDX INST $1,427.09 23.212
    Sources Amount Number of Shares
    PRE-TAX DEFERRALS $1,427.09 23.212


    the Q. (Quicken) shows all above transactions as the same type and isn't the source aware. And as result no split between before tax and after tax - all are the same.

    what else I can provide to make it more clear about the issue I have with Quicken?

    thanks
    Mike
  • NotACPANotACPA SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, I'm a Fidelity customer also.  How do I get to that info at Fidelity.com?
    Q user since DOS version 5
    Now running Quicken Windows Subscription,  Home & Business
    Retired "Certified Information Systems Auditor" & Bank Audit VP
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    hi NotACPA,

    this isn't Traditional IRA or Traditional Roth IRA, but 401k Plan

    you need to have 401k company plan that allows before and after tax contributions, also rollover from former company 401k
    company match / contribution to your 401k

    https://workplaceservices.fidelity.com/mybenefits/savings2/transactionhistory/detail

    summary->transaction history
  • harris15213harris15213 Member
    As others have commented, some 401k providers (eg: Prudential) provide source information, but its useless from a quicken perspective.

    What I do?
    - Download the transactions to Quicken as-is. So, for Fidelity, that means one big messy account that includes all the transactions combined.
    - I create manual accounts in quicken that, every so often, I update to reflect the value of the source contribution. So, for example: fidelity_sub_roth, fidelity_sub_pretax, fidelity_sub_aftertax.
    - I use the sub accounts in scenario planning and do not include the NetBenefits account.

    If you'd like your account bar/net assets to look correct, just mark the sub accounts as "Keep this account separate"
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good idea on the separate sub-accounts, @harris15213

    If you haven't already, I suggest you set up the sub accounts as Traditional or Roth IRAs so that Quicken will treat them properly for planning purposes.

    When it is time to start taking distributions from your 401(k), you would probably roll it over into separate Roth and traditional IRAs anyway, so this approach is reflecting that likely future state.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    Yes, I agree that is interesting idea
    I'll try to follow your recommendations, especially how to omit NetBenefits to "Keep this account separate".

    Is there easy way to Copy appropriate transactions from NetBenefits with OnLine sync to those new manual "sub" accounts?

    so far I see one complication due to Paycheck that has transfer to my NetBenefits account, and if I'll omit NetBenefits account than how it will effect my Checking account Paycheck transfer.
    Will it effect?

    thanks
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    With this approach, you shouldn't be copying transactions from the NetBenefits account, you would leave that as it is. 

    You would only set the NetBenefits account as "Separate" and enable the manual accounts for planning purposes.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    hello Jim,

    sorry, I don't understand :-(
    if I'll not copy transactions from the NetBenefits to the sub Roth account than how the sub account will have those shares and "Total Market Value"?
    yes, the paycheck has transfer directly to sub account and total of xfer should be used for those funds / shares buy

    what I'm missing?

    it's complicated a bit for me, as includes conversion in the NetBenefits from After Tax to Roth and I can't make the balance correct as result for a while :-(

    thanks
    Mike
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, say Fidelity's website says your NetBenefits account has a total of 100,000 and 65,000 of that is pre-tax and 35,000 is Roth. 

    In Quicken, it is all one 401(k) account but the Lifetime Planner assumes it is all pre-tax, so its tax projections and withdrawal strategy are not accurate.

    You would like a reasonably painless way to make the Lifetime Planner take the pre-tax/Roth breakdown into account.

    1) Create a bogus security called "NetBenefit Assets" or whatever with a share price of $1.00. You can set the asset allocation for this security to match the allocation in your NetBenefits account.

    2) Create two new manual accounts, one a Traditional IRA and one a Roth. You might call one "NetBene-pretax" and the other "NetBene-Roth." When Quicken asks what securities are in each account, enter 65,000 shares of the bogus security for the Traditional account and 35,000 for the Roth account.

    3) For each of the new accounts, go to Edit Account Details, select the Display Options tab, and check the Keep this account separate box.

    You now have two new accounts totaling the same as your NetBenefits total but they are not included in your net worth or other reports.

    4) Continue sending your new contributions to the NetBenefits account and downloading transactions as you currently do.

    5) Periodically Add or Remove shares of the bogus security to/from the new accounts, so that their individual and total balances are correct.

    6) When you would like to run the Lifetime Planner, check the Separate box for the NetBenefits account and un-check it for the new accounts.

    The Lifetime Planner should now make correct assumptions about the assets in your NetBenefits account. Remember to change the Separate designations back when you are done.

    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
  • mikek753mikek753 Member ✭✭
    hello Jim,

    thanks a lot for the info.
    what's the reason to NOT keep check the "Keep this account separate" box for NetBenefits all the time?
    what I'll loose by keep it separate?
  • Jim_HarmanJim_Harman SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it is Separate, it will not be included in your net worth and other reports. You could leave the manual accounts enabled instead, but they will not be as up to date as the NetBenefits account. It's your choice.
    -- Jim QWin Premier subscription
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