Quicken deletes accounts from quicken file after synchronization

Thomas Swidler

I have for my business two separate quicken files lets say file A and file B. Both use the same quicken online account. To be perfectly clear this has worked for months without an issue.

Today I opened file A and synchronized my accounts to get my latest transactions. With horror I see in front of my eyes that accounts being deleted after a prolonged "synchronizing account" message. In addition an account form file B has been added to file A.

What kind of information is quicken storing under my quicken online account? Are you keeping my accounts listed on your server? I can not understand how this sudden mix up can happen unless you keep on your server some kind of record of my accounts.

This is a serious issue for my business and I can not contact support. The button does not work.

Quicken Diana

Thomas Swidler

I’m sorry that you are experiencing this issue with the accounts between your two data files. As well as not being able to contact support through the link. [removed-Premium Support phone number]. I do believe this issue will be best resolved over the phone with a screenshare so that we can identify exactly what is causing the issue.

Thank you

Diana Springer

Thomas Swidler

As I mentioned the blue button contact customer support was not working but with Google search I found a phone number.

I am what you can call an expert user with close to 30 years of using Quicken with several companies. Over those years some expected problems arose and were solved.

This recent issue had the most impact to me as it deletes accounts (5 in my case) complete with years of transactions from the quicken file. Thank god we have daily backups of all of our files.

As far as I can tell there is some change in the operation of the Quicken Cloud which now causes some interaction between those two quicken files during download of transactions (synchronization). We went through the process of deleting the files on the cloud and re-registering them. File A was OK after that but when I ran file B it created at least one time more the issue with file A. So I am not sure if the issue is solved at this time. For now I have an end of month working accounting files and I will keep an eye on the problem.

Thomas Swidler

Just to make sure. This issue still persists with the latest update. Just updated and again lost 5 accounts and gained one I should not have. What I once again had to do is:
a) Restore my quicken file from my backup
b) Activate Preference->Mobile Sync
c) Click on Reset Your Cloud Data even so it says 0 of 42 eligible accounts enabled
d) De-activate Preference->Mobile Sync
e) Update all accounts
f) Those 5 accounts which get deleted all the time need to be each separately "reset" because they now failed the "update all". One of those accounts need two way verification by text code - oh goody!

This process takes an hour and I have to do every single time. So can Quicken get a grip on this Cloud issue!

davsalj

This is exactly what is happening with my two Quicken files. It has been going on for several weeks. My only solution is to restore the Quicken file and update the accounts using Web Connect, logon to institution, download transactions, and open the downloaded file. I do not use mobile sync.

I'm with Thomas---how can an update replace accounts in one Quicken file with accounts from another Quicken account? All these accounts have different access credentials.

Is this Quicken precursor to requiring a different Quicken account for each file?

markus1957

If the files in question were at any time in the past created from a copy of one or the other, you will have problems with cloud sync and cloud services like online bills.  There is an internal file ID that gets carried to the copy.  Only one cloud file will be created for that ID regardless of how many desktop file copies are created.

Over the years there have been various suggestions on methods to separate desktop file copies so they look distinct to the cloud servers.  None of those methods has ever been entirely successful.  The issue you describe fits with the scenario that the files in question were once copies of each other; maybe created long ago, but copies nonetheless.

Thomas Swidler

Well it is funny that only effects certain accounts in that file. For example USAA Chase accounts are OK. PayPal and Citibank is not OK.

markus1957

There is a higher probability that accounts using direct connect could remain mostly functional; they don't use an aggregation server to update the desktop file.  There could still be some transaction syncing issues, but account deletion would be unlikely.

Whereas Express Web Connect accounts would more likely be affected and prone to account deletion when encountering files the aggregator thinks are identical but actually contain different sets of EWC accounts.

Thomas Swidler

Hi Markus,

I agree with your comment. I believe the same thing. Just had the issue again today. I may have to create a new file and import all the transactions into that smaller file hopefully avoiding the issue in the future.

Thomas

Thomas Swidler

No this is way to much work to create an account and import all transactions reports etc... I give up on that. I hope Quicken fixed this or allows me to change that unique ID which got copied by copying the files.

Also Markus this (deleting or copying accounts) is a new behavior which did not exit before. I had these two files copied or not for a long time. So once again Quicken what ever you did on the cloud fix it.

Thomas

markus1957

It did exist before, just not as pronounced and in a more nuanced way. It could almost be ignored if you didn't use the mobile/web syncing options.  The new QCS method of EWC aggregation has exacerbated the problem because syncing is taking place even when those services are turned off.

I agree with you that a "make this file behave like a newly created one" would be a useful option. But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.

Quicken Diana

Hello@ Thomas Swidler

We may be able to review your accounts internally if you are able to submit some information. First, verify the last four digits of the dataset ID for each file. Then, from each file, use the REPORT A PROBLEM function in the HELP menu from the Quicken software. Be sure to include the Sync Logs. For the subject line, enter your name.

Please let me know when you have submitted the report and I’ll get to work on it for you.

Thank you

- Quicken Diana

Thomas Swidler

Hi Diana, I was very busy and will get to your nice offer of help next week. In the meantime maybe you want to let me know how I find the datasets ID or how I create the sync logs. Thomas

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @Thomas Swidler

Thank you for the response!

To locate the dataset ID, please open Quicken and go to the Edit menu > Preferences > Cloud Accounts option.

Hold down the Ctrl + Shift keys on the keyboard and click the "Edit cloud account name" box on the right side of the Preferences > Cloud Account menu.

A window should open that lists your Account name, File name, and the Dataset ID.

The log files do not need to be created, just be sure that they are checked to be sent on the report a problem submission.

I hope this helps!

-Quicken Tyka

Thomas Swidler

Diana and Tyka thank you for offering your help.

First of all to see those ID I need to enable Mobile & Web Sync which I always have disabled. After enabling, exiting and relaunching the file I can then following the steps described.

Both files have the same name and ID X31297 and I can not change the name of one file without changing the name of the second file. Of course file 2 was a copy of file 1 and then modified. I needed to separate the bank accounts from file one into another file 2. It was easier to copy rather then exporting all transactions creating all categories and reports again in file 2.

So in short how can we force file 2 to have a different ID?

The one thing which concerns me is that I had never activated Mobile & Web Sync and that I never had this problem before. So for some reason even when deactivated Mobile & Web Sync Quicken does something with the ID and the list of my accounts when downloading transactions from my banks. In other words Quicken has changed is operation on the cloud.

Thomas Swidler

Well after I made some delete account and add account on the cloud experiments the same problem persisted but the ID for both files has changed to X862209.

Thomas Swidler

And BTW no where in this article from Quicken does it warn you that you will have issues when you copy a file:
https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-copy-quicken-data-file

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @Thomas Swidler

Thank you for the response, although I apologize that you continue to experience this trouble. I have reported the FAQ and ask that it be updated to include steps to remedy the duplicate data set.

To correct this issue, please navigate Edit > Preferences > Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts and choose "Edit Dataset Name" and change the name of the dataset, that you are actively using.

Then choose the "Mobile & Web" tab and choose "Reset the Cloud" and leave the option on "Not, just Reset my Cloud Data." Then type "Yes" to confirm.

Once this has been completed, the dataset should now have a distinct ID. 

Please let us know how it goes!
-Quicken Tyka

Thomas Swidler

Tyka, I did what you suggested in File A and yes it creates a new ID X16097. Now you open file B and it says "We could not retrieve your Quicken Profile.." The only way out of this is to say login with a different ID. Of course both files use the same Quicken email id so I just type that email and password. And vola now file B has File A name and ID again and BACK to square one. Extreme Frustrating! Can Quicken not just duplicate that issue by making a copy of a file and see if they can get out of that catch-22?

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @Thomas Swidler

Thank you for the response and for confirming that this behavior persists even after edited the dataset name.

This behavior has been reported and acknowledged by our Development team and is currently under investigation.

To contribute to the research and investigation of this issue, please open Quicken and navigate to Help > Report a Problem and include "CTP-1177" in the title.

Please be sure to include all logs and a sanitized data file if comfortable.

Thank you,
-Quicken Tyka

CTP-1177

Thomas Swidler

Done. Thank You!

Thomas Swidler

Well it was done in October and we now have December and it has not been fixed. Nor have I received an email about the status of the issue. Not impressed at all!

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @Thomas Swidler

Thank you for following up although I apologize for the delay in the update.

This issue is still being investigated. There is no ETA available at this time, I apologize for not having more details at this time.

-Quicken Tyka

CTP-1177

Thomas Swidler

Hi Quicken Tyka, thank you for your response. Your developing team has now worked for 3 month on the issue and the problem continues to bother me. Maybe Quicken can provide me in the meantime with a second (unpaid) login account I can use for the second file.

Bob Bernstein

I have the same problem
and it annoys me everyday. It’s now mid-March 2021 and I hate using quicken. I have used it for over 20 years and this is one of the last straws.

I need this fixed ASAP and appreciate any help I can get.

Quicken_Tyka

Hello @Bob Bernstein

Thank you for taking the time to visit the Community to post your issue, although I apologize that you haven't received a response.

At this time I would recommend contacting support directly for advanced troubleshooting steps.

https://www.quicken.com/support#contact-support

Quicken Care has the tools to review and research this issue further.

Thank you,

-Quicken Tyka

Thomas Swidler

I was able to reach the developing team and have given them lot of detail. They have acknowledged the issue. The engineering team at Quicken is looking into a solution. It is taking them a little longer than I had hoped but they are working on it. When I know more I will re-post here.

Thomas Swidler

I was given the following explanation:

Each new, data file you create has a unique ID (we call this the datasets ID). We view each file (or datasets) as an isolated island of your data. And to your point, they should not be mixed.

A clean, simple example is File A is personal and File B is business. They are separate sets of data.

File copy operations introduce a problem that I think you’ve run into. When you copy a file (with the OS or via the Quicken File Copy menu item) we end up with a clone of the file.

So, to Quicken it looks like this:

File A = Dataset 1
File B = Dataset 1

Chris_QPW

Well I hate to say it, but this has been a known problem for a very long time now.
We (other users) have asked for a long time for a way to see/change that dataset Id so that such problems can be fixed.  Or at least a way to make a copy in Quicken that changes that Id, but there has been dead silence on that for quite a long time.

It is interesting to note that instead of giving such a solution they have instead "geared up" on the idea.  As in now with the new QCS connection method they are using the same "sync" system for Express Web Connect.  And not surprising one of the very first problems noted on that switch over was deleted accounts.  I don't see that reported any more (for Express Web Connect), but there are definitely other such "syncing" programs going on.

The whole system is extremely complicated and clearly they have not anticipated the way Quicken users do things.

Ask any long time user and you will certainly get a response that if you want a copy of your data file you can just make a copy with Windows File Explorer.  Note that the copy in Quicken isn't any better.  Well that is fine until they started syncing to a server.  And that was fine for the people that weren't using Quicken sync to Mobile/Web, and that was OK until they changed to QCS for Express Web Connect if the user isn't using Express Web Connect, until they changed it and now if you do a restore from backup it creates another data set that it syncs to, and that is OK if you never restore from a backup (do your own backup and restore outside of Quicken), until they decided that there is a limit on how many data sets you can have and put up an error message.  And if you avoid all of those problems watch out for restoring too old of a version of the data file because they are going to sync with that "cloud" data set and if they are too different there isn't any telling what will get messed up.

See simple on how to use Quicken without running into the "sync errors".