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Quicken Mac needs a visual indicator when there are multiple open windows

jacobs

Quicken needs some way to indicate to users -- especially on re-launch -- when there are one or more windows open in addition to the main window.

The problem some Quicken users run into is that Quicken appears to be running slowly at times, and it turns out to be because of open windows hiding behind the main window. If there are reports open which need to recalculate after every transaction edit or entry is saved, it can make Quicken run slowly -- and there's no visual indication to users. Worse, because window positions are persistent and restored upon relaunch a user re-launching Quicken can be completely unaware that they have one or multiple windows open behind the main window each time they launch.

This has bit me any number of times, but I know what to look for if I sense sluggishness, but many users don't know to look for open windows behind the main one. The solution can't be too distracting or disruptive -- because some users intentionally leave multiple windows open in different positions across sessions -- yet needs to call attention to the open windows upon launching.

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Under Consideration

Status: Under Consideration

Comments

Chris_QPW

For what is worth this is how Quicken Windows handles it (the standard Windows multiple document application way).

First off all windows that Quicken creates always appear over the main window.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/fv/3w5tj57raoc7.png

Next at the bottom of the main window you have this:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/bl/ilobpk3fcrby.png

If the user needs to see something on the main window that the sub window is blocking, they either move the sub window or minimize it. Clicking on one of the above buttons restores them.

jacobs

Thanks, Chris. The problem with Quicken Mac is that while new windows open on top of the main window, one click on the main window can then hide them behind the main window. The main window occupies a lot of space, and can't be reduced in size on a laptop screen less than about 2/3 of the screen width. Once a window is positioned behind the main screen, if you quit Quicken and relaunch, the same window opens behind the main window. If the window is a report which needs to recalculate after editing every transaction, there can be a lag. Several open reports, the lag gets worse.

The key difference is the Windows main screen shows the open windows at the bottom. That's a Windows UI thing not often seen in Mac applications… although Mac users see it in the Chrome browser when they do multiple downloads. In Quicken Mac, you can see you have other windows open if you think to pull down the Window menu.

macOS has a concept of tabs, and Quicken Mac has the ability to open a Tab Bar -- but it doesn't work (as best I can tell) for opening accounts or reports in tabs rather than windows. New windows open as windows, not tabs, and there's no way to merge windows into other windows as tabs.

Chris_QPW

jacobs said:

Once a window is positioned behind the main screen, if you quit Quicken and relaunch, the same window opens behind the main window.

Well it seems like one fix they should make is that at startup force the sub windows to be above the main one.

FarmBoy

The entire problem would be solved if Q would use tabs instead of new windows. I do not see an option for viewing a Tab Bar.

jacobs

@FarmBoy Quicken Mac does support tabs, although it's not the cleanest most intuitive design currently. The first thing to know is that the main window cannot appear in a tab; it will always be stand-alone. But any registers, reports and/or budgets you want to open in tabbed windows can be accomplished.

Open a register, report or budget in its own window. (Reports automatically open in a new window. Registers: double-click int he left sidebar to open in a new window. Budget: open your budget in the main window, then select View > Open in New Window.)
Once a window is opened, you can select View > Show Tab Bar.
Open another window. Drag the tab bar of one window to the tab bar of another, and they'll be merged in one window with two tabs. Repeat as desired to add more tabs.

Unfortunately, when you quit Quicken and come back to re-launch it, the windows open separately; you have to drag them together again into one window.

So… somewhat useful, but it seems like tabs weren't given much attention in the latest UI tweaks for the 6.x release.

Bill18

The behavior noted by Jacobs seems to have been reversed in some recent release: Quicken Mac now seems to add tabs to any open register window, rather than opening a new window, when one double-clicks an account name. Personally I prefer the old behavior and haven't figured out how to restore it, or even if that's possible. My problem is that I tend to close a window when I'm done with a register, and it irritates me that this now causes *all* my registers to go away. Not what I wanted to do at all. I realize I should just learn to change my behavior, but hey, I'm an old guy and that's hard

Mac OS 12.4(Monterey), Quicken Version 6.8.1 (Build 608.44845.100)

jacobs

@Bill18 I'm not seeing any change. When I double-click account names, Quicken still opens each in a separate new window. Even if I have Show Tab Bar turned on, double-clicking an account opens in a new window. (I can then drag the tab bar of one window into another, to combine them in one window with two tabs.) When you have an account open in a separate window, on the View menu, can you choose Hid Tab Bar? You aren't operating Quicken in Full Screen mode, right?

smayer97

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20130877#Comment_20130877

Another fix would be to eliminate the main window and treat all elements as separate windows, like older Mac versions used to do, older sub versions and even QM2007.

jacobs

@smayer97 said: Another fix would be to eliminate the main window and treat all elements as separate windows, like older Mac versions used to do, older sub versions and even QM2007.

Yes, that's an option, but it's a pretty old-school design. It's not what Quicken Windows, or Quicken on the Web, or most other personal finance programs (that I've looked at) use. A bunch of separate windows isn't necessarily an improvement, at least for me; I used to spend time re-arranging my windows in the legacy Quicken app, and I appreciate not doing that any more. I'd like to see them keep the main window as it is, but add a way to alert users to open windows in the background. This could be a dialog box upon relaunch, or some UI element on the main screen, as long as it doesn't require the user to proactively look for hidden open windows as is currently the case.

smayer97

Personally, I do not like the anchored design, no matter how "old-schooled" it may be considered. IIRC QWin has had some variation of the main window since the very beginning (though admittedly I am not that knowledgeable of all its iterations), so is IT old school design too? "New" does not always translate to better. But I respect different preferences.

I believe it goes against the whole concept of "windows" paradigm, on which both OSes were built, which gives more flexibility. An option to choose would be nice.

jacobs

I believe it goes against the whole concept of "windows" paradigm, on which both OSes were built, which gives more flexibility.

But interface design has changed immeasurably since the early days of the Mac and Windows. Not necessarily all for the better. 😉

Doesn't the current Quicken Mac interface mostly give you the best of both worlds? You can stay just in the main window switching between accounts, or you can open account registers in separate windows. Reports open in separate windows. Supporting data, like Payees, Securities, Categories, etc. open in separate windows. So what is it you'd be seeking in a return to the older user interface? Removing the left sidebar to place it in a window of its own?

I much prefer having the sidebar always visible, versus having a separate Accounts window in Quicken 2007, which I often covered with account register windows. I spent a more time rearranging Quicken 2007 windows on my screen than I do in modern Quicken Mac.

And even if there was no "main" window, you'd still have the issue that one register might be hiding other register or report windows, affecting performance. So the Idea here is still needed: a way to make users aware that they have a hidden window(s) which may be affecting performance.

An option to choose would be nice.

There is such a thing as too many options. 😀 Aside from adding to code bloat which makes it more likely for bugs as the program evolves, too many options can confuse users. The original releases of modern Quicken Mac had a very small set of settings/preference, but those have grown quite a bit over time as the program has matured and added features. This is a good thing in most cases, and. have been one to advocate for options for various features. But I also see many posts from users who don't discover one of the preference settings, causing frustration. So the developers need to be judicious in providing options, so they don't over-complicate things for users. I'm not sure I see much of a compelling need for an alternate windowing interface.

And don't you already basically have the option you're seeking? Simply open the account registers you want and close the main window. (What's missing is the ability to select an account from a menu, which I'd like to see them add for another reason: so users could create command-key shortcuts to account registers via macOS keyboard preferences.)

smayer97

So what is it you'd be seeking in a return to the older user interface? So what is it you'd be seeking in a return to the older user interface? Removing the left sidebar to place it in a window of its own?

Yes… like in QM2007. The other issue with the main window is that it makes is more challenging to deal with other files or apps that you may need while doing data entry, review, reconciliation, etc.

And don't you already basically have the option you're seeking? Simply open the account registers you want and close the main window. (What's missing is the ability to select an account from a menu, …

Exactly… closing the main window means you lose access to some features…

So, having the option to not have the main window as it stands would be a means of addressing the concern raised here plus address other issues.

Quicken is a complex software because the act of managing money can be quite complex. There is only so much one can do to balance the exposure to the complexity of a program to address the needs of a newbie or basic usage vs the needs of more advanced users and needs. This can be argued one way or another to the end of time.

smayer97

BTW, in a windowed environment, you ALWAYS can have one window hidden. So, how would the indicator identify a window that is "problematic"?

The real solution is education… when unsure, always check the Windows list to see what windows are open. That is the convention. In fact, getting rid of the main window addresses this too. The problem being raised is in fact caused by the impression created that the main window is the "base" window and nothing can be behind it.

The more I think about it, I doubt that an "indicator" will solve the problem.

Another solution may be to "anchor" the main window so that it IS the "base" window, so nothing can be behind it (I was always under the impression that this is how it works in QWin, though I have rarely used it) (also, anchoring would fail to address other concerns raised).

jacobs

So, how would the indicator identify a window that is "problematic"?

I'm not suggesting that open windows obscured behind the main window are necessarily problematic. They may be there intentionally. So all I want is for Quicken to make users aware there are additional open windows. Each user would determine if this is or isn't intended.

The real solution is education

I'll disagree. I understand quite well how windows can be obscured by the main window quite well, but this situation has happened to me multiple times. I open a report or register window, perhaps get interrupted form what I'm doing, later quit Quicken, and later re-launch it — with one or more windows hidden by the main window. It's too easy to have this happen, even for those who are "educated". 😂

The more I think about it, I doubt that an "indicator" will solve the problem.

I intentionally didn't include a specific design suggestion about how this could be implemented, as I can think of multiple approaches which would be helpful. For instance, one non-"indicator" option might be to display a dialog box when Quicken launches: "One or more windows are hidden behind the main window; do you want to leave these open or have Quicken close them now? [Leave open]/[Close now]" Or it could use the Windows interface concept of having open windows displayed in a bar at the bottom of the screen. Or something in the upper right of the screen, to the left of the Q logo, which shows the number or type of windows currently open.

aardvarker

Commenting here because this issue just bit me and I couldn't figure out what was happening. @jacobs pointed out that I might have another window open, and it turns out I did — a report spanning all my transactions going back to the 1990s. As a result, every edit I made in a register caused my macOS to show a beachball spinning while it updated the report unbeknownst to me. Once I figured out that the report was open and I closed it, my issue of lag was resolved.

Quicken Anja

Hello All,

The status of this Idea has been changed to Under Consideration as it has reached enough votes and has been submitted to our Product and Development team for further review.

Thank you!

UKR

Bump!

Let's bring this up to everybody's attention again before it sinks to the bottom of the swamp, forever lost …

bambi

Yep, happened to me, an "educated" 24-year heavy user. Somehow, I didn't think to check for hidden windows. I think a brief reminder dialog would be useful. Thanks everyone, for the thoughtful debate on implementation.