“You have exceeded the maximum number of datasets.”

conovergn
conovergn Member ✭✭
This is the second time I got the message.
“You have exceeded the maximum number of datasets.”

Best Answer

  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
    I'm guessing that you did a Quicken Restore.
    You have to contact Quicken Support  and then they can only delete the last dataset, so you will be back in the same situation the next time you do a restore.
    In the future, make a copy of the backup and then change the copy's extension to .QDF from QDF_backup, which will not cause a new dataset to be created.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list

Answers

  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
    I'm guessing that you did a Quicken Restore.
    You have to contact Quicken Support  and then they can only delete the last dataset, so you will be back in the same situation the next time you do a restore.
    In the future, make a copy of the backup and then change the copy's extension to .QDF from QDF_backup, which will not cause a new dataset to be created.
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • conovergn
    conovergn Member ✭✭
    edited February 2021
    [removed - inaccurate]
  • conovergn
    conovergn Member ✭✭
    Problem fixed.
    Thanks :)
  • Leroy1606
    Leroy1606 Member ✭✭
    I have not used restore at all. This error message showed up when I backed up my file to a thumb stick.
  • Glen Gallagher
    Glen Gallagher Member ✭✭
    I am getting this same message every time I start Quicken. I have not done a restore.
  • splasher
    splasher SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    I am getting this same message every time I start Quicken. I have not done a restore.
    Regardless what caused it, your only recourse with the current data file is to contact Quicken Support
    -splasher  using Q since 1996 -  Subscription  -  Win10
    -also older versions as needed for testing
    -Questions? Check out the  Quicken Windows FAQ list
  • don_knott
    don_knott Member
    I get the same message each time I open my quicken. did not restore just bought 2017 home and business last month Don Knott,
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    don_knott said:
    I get the same message each time I open my quicken. did not restore just bought 2017 home and business last month Don Knott,
    Now there is the rub.  Only Quicken Support can fix such a problem on the server, and you are running an unsupported version of Quicken and as such they probably won't do it for you.

    I know of others with Quicken 2017 that have gotten the error and just decided to "live with it".  As in the message doesn't block using Quicken, and for an supported version like Quicken 2017 there isn't any loss of functionality either.
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  • Glen Gallagher
    Glen Gallagher Member ✭✭
    OK, so I called Quicken support yesterday. They made the error message go away - yesterday. I opened up Quicken this morning, and it's there again. We'll see what happens after a second call.
  • RichardH
    RichardH Member
    the first time i encountered the error, support did something to make it stop during that session.
    the next day, it came back and support spent two hours with me trying to fix it. he finally suggested that i make sure my Windows was completely up to date, and then reinstall Quicken.
    i did both, and the problem persists.
    is there any way to stop the sync to the Quicken Cloud?
    there is a check box when you login with your account, but checking it is ignored, you just get the error mesage again.
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    RichardH said:
    the first time i encountered the error, support did something to make it stop during that session.
    the next day, it came back and support spent two hours with me trying to fix it. he finally suggested that i make sure my Windows was completely up to date, and then reinstall Quicken.
    i did both, and the problem persists.
    is there any way to stop the sync to the Quicken Cloud?
    there is a check box when you login with your account, but checking it is ignored, you just get the error mesage again.
    By any chance is part of your workflow that you restore from a backup?

    In practice any given Desktop data file should only have one "cloud account data set", but it seems that they (the Quicken developers) have created "flows" that create multiple data sets.  And there is a limit to the number of data sets they will allow.

    One "flow" that has been identified is that when you restore from a backup, they create a new data set.  I reason stated is they have to "security of the data".  So if someone is using the old recommended flow of backing up and restoring on another machine to move their data to it (and back again), they can quickly run out of data sets.  What's more from what I understand, Quicken Support is only authorized to delete the "last data set".  So once they hit this limit, they are going to be quickly back in the same boat, unless they change their workflow.

    You can't turn off this kind of syncing.  This is separate from the syncing to Mobile/Web.  Or more accurately, they are the same syncing "method", but the syncing to Mobile/Web syncs more data.  But you can check to make sure the Mobile/Web sync is off by going to Edit -> Preferences -> Mobile & Web.
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  • gwwilk
    gwwilk Member ✭✭
    edited April 2021
    Back when Intuit owned Quicken, their recommended method of keeping the data file up-to-date on more than one computer was to back up the altered file and then restore the altered file on another computer where you could then continue your work with Quicken. Quicken's new masters have deemed that any restore operation now counts against some arbitrary pseudo-security-mandated limit (60, I believe) on such 'shenanigans'. The new, 'secure', and 'correct' method of using Quicken across several networked computers is to copy your newly altered data file from the computer where you've been working to replace the data file on the other computer(s) where you also perform work on said file. This new mandated workflow requires modification of networking permissions in order to perform said copies from the computer where the work was done to the target computer(s), namely opening up the target computer('s)s(') permissions so that the source network ID's can modify the target computer('s)s(') files.

    [Removed-Disruptive/Rant]
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    For what it is worth I think this was an unintended consequence.  As they started syncing more and more data to the cloud data set and then trying to keep that in sync you start to run into very complicated situations.

    The "sync" is really about keeping two sets of data in sync.  The Desktop data file and the "cloud data set".
    Even though you can access the cloud data set from multiple places there is really only one of them, and the Mobile/Web are just "GUIs" to access it.

    So let's talk about a few situations.
    Each Desktop data file gets a unique Id when it is created (which can't be changed, and doesn't change just because you copy it).  The syncing uses this unique Id to connect the Desktop data file to the cloud data set.

    So there is a basic assumption built into this, and that is if you record what was done in each and then when you sync again replay that you be able to bring each side back in sync.

    Now there are two flows that jump out immediately that violate that assumption.
    The first is a restore.  Now the data file has just "jumped back in time", which include any kind of instructions on how to bring the cloud data set back in sync with it.  So I'm pretty sure that is why they "abandon" that data set.  Instead pretty much starting from scratch.  But why keep old data sets?  My theory would be that they "can't deleted the customer data without approval" kind thinking.

    The second flow that should be noted is that since the unique Id doesn't change on any kind of copy, if a user copies a data file, and then treats them as two different data files, this will quickly violate the assumption that the Desktop data file and the cloud data set are "in sync, expect for the 'change instructions'".

    You can copy the data file back an forth, but at no time should you start an "out of sync data file".
    In other words once you copy a data file to another machine and open it, you should never open the first one without first copying back the data file from the second machine.
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  • gwwilk
    gwwilk Member ✭✭
    And those of us who have never used and never intend to use Quicken Mobile/Web as a data store are 'accidentally' caught in this nefarious web. Even turning Quicken Mobile off in the desktop version is almost, but not quite, impossible, because I have done it. My data is my data, and belongs only to me.
    Bear in mind that I have 4 iPads, 1 iPhone, and 1 Android phone, none of which have I ever used to enter data in Quicken. Nor do I ever intend to. Yet I had to alter my access permissions on my computers in order to comply with Quicken's new, arbitrary, and senseless 'security' rules.
  • RichardH
    RichardH Member
    thank you Chris_QPW
    I have tried to check my Mobile & Web setting, and i get "We could not retrieve your cloud account information"
    and continue to get the datasets message
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    RichardH said:
    thank you Chris_QPW
    I have tried to check my Mobile & Web setting, and i get "We could not retrieve your cloud account information"
    and continue to get the datasets message
    Try logging out and back in with the same Quicken Id.
    Edit -> Preferences -> Quicken ID & Cloud Accounts -> Sign in as a different user

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    (I'm always using the latest Quicken Windows Premier subscription version)
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  • leishirsute
    leishirsute Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    splasher said:
    I'm guessing that you did a Quicken Restore.
    You have to contact Quicken Support  and then they can only delete the last dataset, so you will be back in the same situation the next time you do a restore.
    In the future, make a copy of the backup and then change the copy's extension to .QDF from QDF_backup, which will not cause a new dataset to be created.

    Seems like this should procedure be documented for users since there is no apparent fix for hitting max datasets other than the temporary workaround of calling support.  Actually, there should be an option in Quicken to do this type of restore.

    Curious, do inactive datasets in the cloud expire eventually and free up the dataset count?
    Is there some sort of renaming that can be done to start the cloud dataset count again?
    Quicken Deluxe Subscription; Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    splasher said:
    I'm guessing that you did a Quicken Restore.
    You have to contact Quicken Support  and then they can only delete the last dataset, so you will be back in the same situation the next time you do a restore.
    In the future, make a copy of the backup and then change the copy's extension to .QDF from QDF_backup, which will not cause a new dataset to be created.

    Seems like this should procedure be documented for users since there is no apparent fix for hitting max datasets other than the temporary workaround of calling support.  Actually, there should be an option in Quicken to do this type of restore.

    Curious, do inactive datasets in the cloud expire eventually and free up the dataset count?
    Is there some sort of renaming that can be done to start the cloud dataset count again?
    Quicken Inc tells us next to nothing about how the datasets work (or about anything on their servers for that matter).  Most of what we know is because of observations or because Quicken Inc get cornered and has to tell the moderators the minimum they can.

    So, the details you are asking for aren't really known.

    The max datasets problem is much more than what they have put out.

    From my observations, and knowledge as a programmer I state that I believe the fundamental problem is errors in the syncing process.  And that has led to them trying to program around the problems and causing different problems.

    Keeping that data in the Quicken Desktop data file and the Quicken Cloud dataset isn't an easy thing to do, in fact it is an extremely hard thing to do, and the history of how this works and the operations that they user can do make it even harder.

    First, we start with what "connects" the Quicken Desktop data file and the Quicken Cloud dataset.  There is a unique Id in the Quicken data file that is never change once the data file is created, this is used for connecting the two so that it knows it is trying to sync the right ones.

    If you use Windows copy clearly this unique Id will not change.  Also, in the past Quicken's copy didn't change the unique Id.  This means that whenever a copy is used, and you do One Step Update that copy is being synced to that same cloud dataset.

    In the past (and most likely still being done) it was a common practice to copy a data file and use it as a template for starting a new data file, one that would have different accounts and such in it.  Now you have two data files with the same unique Id both syncing to the same cloud dataset.  Clearly a recipe for problems.

    So, this explains their first action, changing the Quicken copy to change the unique Id in the new data file so that it will not be syncing to the same cloud dataset.  And because it is now not the same data file, they also disconnect all the online services.

    Next problem.  If I was to restore from a backup that is a few days old most likely there wouldn't be any problem with it getting synced back up to cloud dataset.  But what if I restore from backup that is months old, that has different accounts created and such?  Clearly the syncing could get messed up pretty easily.  Workaround?  During restores always create a new cloud dataset.

    But as we know there only want to keep a limited amount of these.  Note they have never said what is limit, what's more what we are talking about is the datasets that are connected with the same unique Id.  And since there should only really be one "active" cloud dataset like this you would think that they would just remove the oldest as needed without having to contact Quicken support.  But what has been stated is that for some reason they believe that it is their legal obligation to keep those old datasets around and can only delete them if the user requests it (and only one from what I have been told).

    Clearly the average person isn't going to understand all these ramifications.  They have painted themselves into a very complicated corner.

    What's more it is clear to me that the problem runs deeper than even this.
    It has been reported, and I have seen it myself where I install Quicken 2017 and immediately run into the max dataset error, even with a brand-new data file.  I never use Quicken's restore.  I have my own backup system.  And in these cases where it can't be a "Restore" created too many datasets kind of problem it has been reported that Quicken Support can't fix the problem. Which makes perfect sense.  The "fix" is to delete a cloud dataset to get under the max, but there is only one cloud dataset.  To me what this means that there is some other kind "out of sync" condition kind of error going on, and it falsely reported as the "max exceeded" error.
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  • gwwilk
    gwwilk Member ✭✭
    edited December 2021
    The Quicken Mobile/Cloud is fraught with potential catastrophes. I personally have no use for it, and when I told Quicken Support after numerous encounters with 'You have exceeded the maximum number of datasets' that I don't and never will use Quicken Mobile, they still weren't able to accommodate my Backup/Restore needs. They did however eventually point me to a viable alternative to 'Backup/Restore' as a backup method.

    I have Quicken Premier for Windows installed on several computers and access to some NAS storage drives on my home network. After updating my QDATA file on a computer I go to the directory that houses it and copy it. Then I paste this file over all of the other LAN QDATA files. The downside to this procedure is that I needed to open several computers' hard drives to these QDATA pastes via read/write permissions in order to copy the QDATA file to them.

    After abandoning Backup/Restore last summer in favor of this copy/paste scheme, I've had no further problems with the pesky maximum-number-of-datasets problem. My backup system is a local hardware intensive solution that eschews any use of Quicken Mobile with its associated potential hazards, and it may not fit the needs of all.
  • Greg_the_Geek
    Greg_the_Geek SuperUser, Windows Beta ✭✭✭✭✭
    To add further to @Chris_QPW's comments, @Quicken Sarah stated "Yes, an affected User, even if they are using a non-supported version of Quicken should be able to contact Support for assistance with resolving the dataset exceeded error." Unfortunately, @Quicken Sarah is no longer with Quicken so I don't know if it still applies.

    Also, I just saw this "If your Quicken subscription has expired

    This error will occur when a subscription has expired. To create a new dataset, you will need to renew your subscription." 

    Error: You have exceeded the maximum number of datasets (quicken.com)

    To me, this violates the Quicken Data Access Guarantee.

    "The Quicken Data Access Guarantee means that whether you renew your subscription or not, you'll always have full access to and ownership of your data. You can view, edit, export, and manually enter transactions and accounts, even after your subscription ends.  As always, your Quicken data is stored on your local computer.

    Access to online services, such as transaction download, quotes, and mobile sync, along with access to Quicken Support, will end if your subscription does. We’ll continue to let you know about our latest enhancements within the Quicken product."

    What is the Quicken Data Access Guarantee?

    I feel Quicken should clarify their position on exceeding maximum datasets for expired versions. You can't have it both ways.

    Quicken Subscription HBRP - Windows 10
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    I agree that requiring you to renew your subscription to get around this error is a violation of the Quicken Data Access Guarantee, but I also believe that you won't get any clarification from Quicken Inc.  And certainly not a "fix".

    To me the "fake max dataset error" on the expired subscription is the same as the one I mentioned on installing Quicken 2017 and some people getting that error.  It isn't really a max dataset error, it is some other kind of syncing error, and they aren't going to bother trying to find out why.
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