Transaction Dates and Posting Dates

Bill Blaney

In reconciling Quicken to my Chase Bank account, it is hard to reconcile transactions for the same amount on different dates. I am looking at transaction dates in --
(a) the bank statement,
(b) the Quicken transaction date, and
(c) the Quicken posting date.

Here is one example. My April Chase Bank Statement shows two deposits for the same amount on 3/18 and 4/1. Quicken shows only one deposit within the statement's date range 3/12 through 4/13. I looked in all dates in Quicken and see one with a transaction date 3/4 and posting date 3/18 which I had already reconciled in my March Bank Statement. There is another deposit with a transaction date 4-15 and a posting date also 4-15 which is beyond the statement's date range. These are payroll deposits via ACH. I can't tell which is the missing transaction.

Which raises some questions --
1. Why do some transactions have bank statement dates different from Quicken transaction and posting dates, and other transactions where the three dates are the same or at least within a day or two?
2. How could a transaction date and a posting date be 14 days apart?
3. If there were a duplicate update from the bank could the duplicate item show different dates still?

Chris_QPW

Are you using reminders or pre-entering transactions?
If you enter a transaction in the register for say 4/1 and it downloads with a posting date of 4/3 and you match it to the one in your register, the main date in Quicken will still be 4/1.

This might be why you see such a difference in dates for some transactions.  On #3 they should get the same posting date, but because they are now duplicates and wouldn't match an existing transaction with and older date, the main date would get the posting date.

Sherlock

A banking transaction in Quicken has three dates: a transaction date, a posting date, and a downloaded posting date. 

• The downloaded posting date is immutable and obtained when we import the transaction.  This date should match the posting date on the statement received from the financial institution.
• The posting date is mutable and set to the downloaded posting date when we import the transaction.  This is the date used by Quicken's reconcile wizard.  To view and set this date, we may press the left Ctrl key when we select Copy transaction(s): right-click on the transaction
• The transaction date is the required date we chose for ordering the transaction in the register when we enter the transaction.  If we accept a  downloaded transaction as a new transaction, the date is the date provided by the financial institution.

The bank statement's transaction date should normally match the downloaded posting date and the posting date of a transaction of the imported transaction.

To respond to your specific questions:

The transaction date may vary from the bank statement.  For example, if we enter a check in the register today, the check may not clear our bank for some number of days.  Or, if we enter a transfer transaction, the transaction must have the same date in the source and destination accounts but may not clear both accounts on the same day.  

One reason a posting date may differ from the posting date on a bank statement is if the imported transaction was mismatched.

Every imported transition is supposed to have a unique FITID field to prevent the same transaction from appearing more than once  in a register.

Bill Blaney

Hi Sherlock, thank you for your speedy reply.

The Q Register has two date columns -- "Date" and "Posting Date". I am trying to match these to the three dates you describe.

Does that mean one of the three dates does not appear in the Q Register?

Does the immutable "Downloaded Posting Date" appear in the Q Register in the "Date" column or the "Posting Date" column? My money's on "Posting Date" because I am able to change the "Date" but not the "Posting Date".

For the mutable "Posting Date" you say, "To view and set this date, we may press the left Ctrl key when we select Copy transaction(s): right-click on the transaction". Can you say this another way? What would I be trying to accomplish in this step -- change the date or copy the transaction? Are you referring to the entry in the "Date" column of the Q Register?

For the "Transaction Date" you give an example where entries are being made by hand and not by bank downloads or Q-generated entries like transfers. I am looking for a date I can match to the bank statement. For a scheduled automatic payment, that would be when the bank issued the check. Chase scheduled automatic payments are giving me the most trouble, as you may be able to tell from my narrative. For a check I wrote by hand and gave to my payee, that would be when the bank received it -- or the next business day at the latest in the case of night deposit.

Is the "FITID" field available in Q, for example is it the "Downloaded ID" or "Downloaded Reference"? I searched in Google for "FITID", and it suggested it may be a way to identify duplicate downloads of the same transaction. (https://forum.manager.io/t/bank-statement-import-failing/25011/2) That would be wonderful! Q users including me have been plagued by duplicate transactions.

Bill Blaney

Hello Chris, thanks for your comment.

I am not using reminders or pre-entering transactions. I am relying on One-Step Update. Then I am trying to match the results in Q to the bank statement.

You said, "If you enter a transaction in the register for say 4/1 and it downloads with a posting date of 4/3 and you match it to the one in your register, the main date in Quicken will still be 4/1." Are you referring to a Q entry I make by hand and a Q entry that arrives via One-Step Update? The only time I am making a Q entry by hand is when the bank statement shows a transaction I am unable to locate in Q. By the time the bank statement is available, all the relevant downloads should have arrived and become available.

Chris_QPW

Well it matching an existing transaction in the register then the main date and the downloaded posting date should be the same.  And in fact third date that @Sherlock mentioned should be the same too.
Examples, in this case I have a reminder for my transfer for paying my credit card, that goes in one day before it posts:


The "hidden data" is brought up like @Sherlock said by holding down the Shift + Ctrl key and right clicking on the transaction and selecting Copy Transaction.


So these are all the dates that Quicken has.  I would think in your case they would all be the same.
And so what every reason there is for the dates varying from what is on your statement would be up to what is sent to Quicken.

Sherlock

Bill Blaney said:

Hi Sherlock, thank you for your speedy reply.

The Q Register has two date columns -- "Date" and "Posting Date". I am trying to match these to the three dates you describe.

Does that mean one of the three dates does not appear in the Q Register?

Does the immutable "Downloaded Posting Date" appear in the Q Register in the "Date" column or the "Posting Date" column? My money's on "Posting Date" because I am able to change the "Date" but not the "Posting Date".

For the mutable "Posting Date" you say, "To view and set this date, we may press the left Ctrl key when we select Copy transaction(s): right-click on the transaction". Can you say this another way? What would I be trying to accomplish in this step -- change the date or copy the transaction? Are you referring to the entry in the "Date" column of the Q Register?

For the "Transaction Date" you give an example where entries are being made by hand and not by bank downloads or Q-generated entries like transfers. I am looking for a date I can match to the bank statement. For a scheduled automatic payment, that would be when the bank issued the check. Chase scheduled automatic payments are giving me the most trouble, as you may be able to tell from my narrative. For a check I wrote by hand and gave to my payee, that would be when the bank received it -- or the next business day at the latest in the case of night deposit.

Is the "FITID" field available in Q, for example is it the "Downloaded ID" or "Downloaded Reference"? I searched in Google for "FITID", and it suggested it may be a way to identify duplicate downloads of the same transaction. (https://forum.manager.io/t/bank-statement-import-failing/25011/2) That would be wonderful! Q users including me have been plagued by duplicate transactions.

The Posting Date column in the register is the downloaded posting date. 
The Date column is the transaction date.
The posting date does not appear in the register.  

To view the posting date of a transaction, right-click on the transaction, the press and hold the left Ctrl key down and select Copy Transaction(s).   The posting date is used by Quicken's reconcile wizard.  You may want to review: FAQ: How does Quicken determine which transactions qualify for a reconcile?

As I said previously, the bank's transaction date should normally match the downloaded posting date.

The FITID is presented in the Downloaded ID column of bank registers.

Chris_QPW

@Sherlock on the key sequence that will bring up the hidden dialog, it is "strange".

If I hold down Ctrl, then right click on the transaction and select Copy Transactions it will not come up.
If I right click on the transaction to get the menu up, and then hold down Ctrl and select Copy transaction it will come up.
If I hold down Shift+Ctrl, then right click on the transaction and select Copy Transactions it will come up.

Note all the above are the left Ctrl and Shift keys.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

@Sherlock on the key sequence that will bring up the hidden dialog, it is "strange".

If I hold down Ctrl, then right click on the transaction and select Copy Transactions it will not come up.
If I right click on the transaction to get the menu up, and then hold down Ctrl and select Copy transaction it will come up.
If I hold down Shift+Ctrl, then right click on the transaction and select Copy Transactions it will come up.

Note all the above are the left Ctrl and Shift keys.

@Chris_QPW  I've always used the right click on the transaction to get the menu up, and then hold down Ctrl and select Copy transaction approach.  You're likely already aware but we may also access the transaction menu via the menu bar: select Edit > Transaction so:

If I hold down Ctrl and select Edit > Copy > Copy transaction(s), it will come up.
If I hold Shift + Ctrl and select Edit > Copy > Copy transaction(s), it will come up.

We may also use just the keyboard:  press Alt + E, R, arrow down to Copy transaction(s), press Ctrl (or Shift + Ctrl) and Enter..

Bill Blaney

What is this about? Why are we copying transactions?

Chris_QPW

This isn't about copying transactions.

The developers hid the displaying of the posted date dialogue in this obscure sequence of key entries.

In reality this field should not be hidden like this, but try to convince the developers of that.

Bill Blaney

There are extraneous topics in this discussion. Let's discard manual transactions and billing reminders for the moment. I agree the Q posting date and the bank statement transaction date should be the same. When they differ, what could be the problem? The discussion about the other two dates is not clear to me.

Please follow my description of how I reconcile Q to the bank statement, and comment.
Bank statement is available.
Q should show all transactions the statement shows.
I search Q for transactions in the date range shown in the statement.
I select Deposits.
Q shows a total of found deposit transactions in the date range.
The total should match total deposits and other credits the statement shows.
I select Payments.
Q shows a total of found payment transactions in the date range.
The total should match total payments and other charges the statement shows.
Q may have downloaded the same transaction twice. They may not show the same dates.
I may want to delete the extra transaction. In the case of repeat transactions and uncertainty around dates this could actually be a real transaction in the future or past.
Q may be missing a transaction.
I may want to manually add the transaction. In the case of uncertainty around dates the “missing” transaction may actually be present in Q with a date outside the date range.
When the Q and the bank statement transaction match I place the bank statement period end date in the Notes column.
Your comments will help me better manage my Q so please be candid.

Chris_QPW

So I take it  that are you not using Quicken's reconcile?

Sherlock

Bill Blaney said:

There are extraneous topics in this discussion. Let's discard manual transactions and billing reminders for the moment. I agree the Q posting date and the bank statement transaction date should be the same. When they differ, what could be the problem? The discussion about the other two dates is not clear to me.

Please follow my description of how I reconcile Q to the bank statement, and comment.
Bank statement is available.
Q should show all transactions the statement shows.
I search Q for transactions in the date range shown in the statement.
I select Deposits.
Q shows a total of found deposit transactions in the date range.
The total should match total deposits and other credits the statement shows.
I select Payments.
Q shows a total of found payment transactions in the date range.
The total should match total payments and other charges the statement shows.
Q may have downloaded the same transaction twice. They may not show the same dates.
I may want to delete the extra transaction. In the case of repeat transactions and uncertainty around dates this could actually be a real transaction in the future or past.
Q may be missing a transaction.
I may want to manually add the transaction. In the case of uncertainty around dates the “missing” transaction may actually be present in Q with a date outside the date range.
When the Q and the bank statement transaction match I place the bank statement period end date in the Notes column.
Your comments will help me better manage my Q so please be candid.

You may have an issue with date range.  Instead of limiting the date range to that of the bank statement, I suggest you include all unreconciled transactions prior to and including the bank statement's closing date.

Is there a reason you're not using Quicken's reconcile wizard (press Ctrl + R)?

Chris_QPW

I will just note that I think everybody that posted assumed that you were using quicken's reconcile, and that's the reason why we were concentrating on all the dates thinking that was your problem.

Bill Blaney

In the case of Chase automatic repeat payments, I set my register to show the Chase account, and the columns (Transaction) Date, Posting Date, Check #, Downloaded ID (sorted descending), and looked for a pattern. Chase is dispatching these repeat payments by paper check and not electronically via ACH.

The Check # column shows "Sent" or blank. For some, the T.Date precedes the Posting Date by 7 days and I guess that allows a 7-day "float" before finalizing the posting. For many others, the dates are all over the place. I have not manually changed any T.Dates. The T.Date may be a month or two earlier or later than the Posting Date. If Q has logic to set the T.Date it may not always work.

Here is a screenshot (image.png) showing --
o an icon if I posted the statement ending date in Notes while reconciling,
o the T.Date,
o the Posting Date,
o the Check # showing "Sent" or blank, and
o the Downloaded ID.

The latest transaction in Chase appears to be the latest Q transaction. The date Chase shows matches the Q Posting Date and also the Downloaded ID (yyyymmddn where n is 0, 1, 2, or 3). That is true of all the transactions I observed. This tells me I should ignore the T.Date, or change it to the Posting Date. If I change it to the posting date I will be able to search for the dates in included in the bank statement, sort them as needed, and reconcile according to that date. I probably should not use the T.Date that Quicken provided in the update.

Ducksoup_SD

For anyone who came here wondering about how to fix a transaction missing from the reconcile dialog if you don't really care about Quicken knowing the exact posting date, I found a simple solution. Just copy the downloaded transaction! Because the transaction is now copied and not downloaded, Quicken unchecks the Downloaded Transaction box in the magical hidden dialog and the copy is automatically included in the list of transactions when you reconcile. If you reconcile with both the copy and original transactions, Quicken will use the copied one and leave the original. Just delete the original after the reconciliation and you're done. It's easier to just remember to copy a missing transaction than the oddball method Quicken has come up with for editing the posting date.