Quicken is downloading incorrect Transaction from Roth IRA account & Bond ETF

KDJ21

Is anyone having this same frequent problem?

Ever since I subscribed to quicken home/business & investment in early April and set up my Charles Schwab brokerage accounts in my accounts list, Quicken has been downloading a value vastly different than what I currently have in my Roth/Ira Account. That account has around $29K in it and, after using one step update, Quicken changes that value to approx. $428K!

 When I spoke with support about this initially in early April they said it looked as if it was just missing transactions that needed to be edited based on the 20 ETFs that were put in placeholders. Well as instructed, I contacted Schwab brokerage and corrected the number of shares and price/share for those place-held ETFs and it LOOKED as if that did the trick as it brought the value of my Roth down to its current and correct value of around$29K.

 Then a week later I tried setting up "Mobile and Web" sync and that caused Quicken to change that Roth value back to$428K AGAIN! So with the help of support I disabled "Mobile/Web" and did a Quicken restore to the correct amount. Last Thursday I made some edits to my BofA checking account transaction (unrelated to the Schwab issue) with the help of support then backed up my software for the night. Every value in all of my accounts were correct down to the penny.

The next night, Friday, I decided to open quicken just to download updates that came for that day and would you believe that quicken downloaded the same incorrect $428K value to my Roth account again! over these last 2 days (Monday and Tuesday) I've been on the phone with Quicken support to once again address this issue. One support agent did a validation of the software and account and sent it to R&D.

 Another agent I spoke with afterward was actually able to pinpoint the issue: In my Schwab online Roth account there are 2 ETFs- one equity, the other a corporate bond ETF and for some Quicken is misreading the titles of the 2 ETFs, combining them into one single name, and then adjusting the value of 4 of the holdings of the bond ETF to make the total value spike to the $399+K. This is what's throwing off my Roth's Total Value! We created test files to try and fix it but nothing seems to help.

 I was told by Schwab that it has something to do with the way Quicken is recognizing that bond ETF and not properly creating fields within the Quicken software to accommodate what is being pulled over from my Schwab account. it has nothing to do with Schwab since my online account is correct; it's how Quicken is bringing that Bond ETF over into the account that is causing the problem.

Has ANYONE here in this community gone through any similar problems with their investment accounts within Quicken? If so please tell me how you fixed this issue because at the moment support doesn't seem to have a clue as to what's happening with my Roth account nor how to address the issue. My only other option at this point until there is a solution from Quicken is to just delete that account from my accounts list since all the other accounts I have set up within quicken seem to be working just fine.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Jim_Harman

I added paragraph breaks to you post to make it more readable.

It sounds like two of your securities in Quicken are mismatched with the securities you actually hold.

I would start by clicking on the Holdings button in the account and comparing the securities, share counts, and share prices to your holdings on the Schwab website. Note any discrepancies and let us know what you see. If you are willing to share the actual security names of the problem securities, we can be more helpful in sorting this out.

q_lurker

On another note, I found this statement in a pdf about related options:

The Options Clearing Corporation (OCC) has been informed that SPDR Bloomberg Barclays Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF (ITR) will change its name and trading symbol to SPDR Portfolio Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF (SPIB), effective October 16, 2017.

So it appears some 3.5 years ago ITR was the correct symbol.  SPDR ETF's seem to be undergoing a broad long-term rename and reticker process.  

Jim_Harman

A likely explanation in this case is that Quicken's quote provider recognizes the ticker ITR as the Dow Jones Industrial Average Total Return Index. This had a closing price on 5/17 of $79,919.84. If you held 5 "shares" of that, the value would be $399,599.20, which matches the market value @KDJ21 reported above.

The quote provider seems to prefer INDEX:ITR for the index, but it accepts ITR and supplies those high prices if you assign ITR to a security. 

The price supplied by Schwab was correct all along, but whenever you updated quotes, it would be replaced by the high value.

Everything should be OK going forward.

Jim_Harman

BTW this problem was first reported back in 2017 when the ticker change occurred and there is a reference to it here
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/19152949#Comment_19152949

but the original discussion is no longer accessible.

Kudos to support agent Brenda for sorting this out.

Jim_Harman

@KDJ21

Placeholders force your share count in Quicken to match your broker's share count when you have missing or incorrect transactions. Resolving them incorrectly may indeed cause your balances to be wrong, but not in the same way you describe above. Always back up your data file before changing historical transactions.

See this FAQ post
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7267839/quicken-faq-managing-placeholder-entries-in-quicken-for-windows#latest
for more information on Placeholders and post back if you have further questions.

Jim_Harman

I added paragraph breaks to you post to make it more readable.

It sounds like two of your securities in Quicken are mismatched with the securities you actually hold.

I would start by clicking on the Holdings button in the account and comparing the securities, share counts, and share prices to your holdings on the Schwab website. Note any discrepancies and let us know what you see. If you are willing to share the actual security names of the problem securities, we can be more helpful in sorting this out.

Tom Young

What are the names, the ticker symbols and the CUSIPs of the 2 ETFs?  Click on Tools > Security list and copy the names, tickers and CUSIP IDs as shown there.

I don't understand this: "...and then (Quicken is) adjusting the value of 4 of the holdings of the bond ETF..."  Quicken knows nothing, really, about individual securities within an ETF so there's no way in the world that Quicken would somehow pluck 4 of those securities out of the ETF, price them incorrectly, and then fold that additional value back into the bond ETF.  Maybe there's a separate problem, unrelated to the two ETFs?

Ps56k2

KDJ21 said: ... just missing transactions that needed to be edited based on the 20 ETFs that were put in placeholders.

 Another agent I spoke with afterward was actually able to pinpoint the issue: In my Schwab online Roth account there are 2 ETFs- one equity, the other a corporate bond ETF and for some Quicken is misreading the titles of the 2 ETFs, combining them into one single name, and then adjusting the value of 4 of the holdings of the bond ETF to make the total value spike to the $399+K.

Yeah - lots of darts being thrown.....   but we need to have the actual details -

What are the two ETFs that are currently involved....   

Were the 20 other ETFs held and then sold at some point in time ?

And what do you mean.... "adjusting the value of 4 of the holdings of the bond ETF" -
that is clearly not possible, unless you also have those entries setup in Quicken as separate securities.

KDJ21

UPDATE!!!!

Ok well after much brainstorming with support agents (and my staying up until 2am) I thing the solution was found. the ETF that was causing the $428K spike in my overall Roth account was found under the Investing portfolio tab. when there I scrolled down to my Roth account and found the incorrect ETF. Quicken took a corporate bond ETF I have in my Schwab account and labeled it "SPDR BLMBRG BRCLY INTRMDT TRM ETF"! It lists it with the correct shares (5) but the total market value was $399,599.20. So, customer agent "Brenda" had me left click on the ETF which brought up a "security detail view" menu. From there I clicked the "edit details" button. in this box Quicken had the symbol of ITR in its symbol box which IS NOT what I have in my Schwab online account. So I typed the correct symbol (SPIB) then clicked "look up". It found the correct ETF for me to select, I selected it and clicked OK. then back in the "edit securities details" box with the correct symbol I just had to select "bond" under the "Type" box and click "OK". Then once back in the "Securities detail view menu I just had to click the "UPDATE" button! Quicken then updated the symbol, the correct quantity of shares, and the correct share price that I currently have in my Roth account! EVERYTHING now matches down to the penny again in my Roth and the rest of my accounts!

I am very happy now that this is fixed. I am assuming that I should have this problem again with this ETF as I do future one step updates since Quicken has the correct information for the ETF. I am a bit pissed though that It took me several days, 4-5 service agents, and my staying up until 2am to find the correct steps to address this issue with this security that otherwise should have only taken only minutes to fix. Quicken has way too many moving parts and features within its software that it needs to make more user friendly for the layperson and give the help guides a better ability to search for the correct answer in a more fast and efficient manner. Otherwise I do like the program and its features it has available for use to use. Just make them more user friendly.

Thanks for your help.

Ps56k2

Happy that you are back to things balancing.....

Had you simply answered the basic questions of the ETF symbols that we all asked  -
we all would have walked the same path for a solution....

And stock ticker symbols don't usually get magically renamed within Quicken from - ITR ---> SPIB

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ITR  ---> which appears to now be a dead symbol as of Oct 2017
SPDR Blmbg Barclays IntmTermCorpBd ETF (ITR)

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPIB
SPDR Portfolio Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF (SPIB)

q_lurker

IMO, the SPIB security should have a type of Stock or Mutual Fund (or ETF if you want to create that type).  Having the Type set as Bond MAY cause issues when you buy or sell shares of that ETF.

q_lurker

On another note, I found this statement in a pdf about related options:

The Options Clearing Corporation (OCC) has been informed that SPDR Bloomberg Barclays Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF (ITR) will change its name and trading symbol to SPDR Portfolio Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF (SPIB), effective October 16, 2017.

So it appears some 3.5 years ago ITR was the correct symbol.  SPDR ETF's seem to be undergoing a broad long-term rename and reticker process.  

Jim_Harman

A likely explanation in this case is that Quicken's quote provider recognizes the ticker ITR as the Dow Jones Industrial Average Total Return Index. This had a closing price on 5/17 of $79,919.84. If you held 5 "shares" of that, the value would be $399,599.20, which matches the market value @KDJ21 reported above.

The quote provider seems to prefer INDEX:ITR for the index, but it accepts ITR and supplies those high prices if you assign ITR to a security. 

The price supplied by Schwab was correct all along, but whenever you updated quotes, it would be replaced by the high value.

Everything should be OK going forward.

Jim_Harman

BTW this problem was first reported back in 2017 when the ticker change occurred and there is a reference to it here
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/19152949#Comment_19152949

but the original discussion is no longer accessible.

Kudos to support agent Brenda for sorting this out.

Ps56k2

Jim_Harman said:

A likely explanation in this case is that Quicken's quote provider recognizes the ticker ITR as the Dow Jones Industrial Average Total Return Index. This had a closing price on 5/17 of $79,919.84. If you held 5 "shares" of that, the value would be $399,599.20, which matches the market value @KDJ21 reported above.

How did you even stumble into this discovery - and the Index symbol of ITR ?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/^DJITR

KDJ21

Well in any event its fixed. Quicken now recognized the SPIB ETF corporate Bond that is in my Schwab online account. One other quick question though. the placeholders. even though my Roth account online and my quicken account match to the penny now. I still have about 20 placeholders from the Roth account that looks like they are missing information. I was told by Quicken support if I enter those missing transactions I run the chance of my Roth account totals in Quicken once again not matching with my Roth account online. Is that true and if so should I just leave those placeholders alone?

Jim_Harman

Ps56k2 said:

Jim_Harman said:

A likely explanation in this case is that Quicken's quote provider recognizes the ticker ITR as the Dow Jones Industrial Average Total Return Index. This had a closing price on 5/17 of $79,919.84. If you held 5 "shares" of that, the value would be $399,599.20, which matches the market value @KDJ21 reported above.

How did you even stumble into this discovery - and the Index symbol of ITR ?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/^DJITR

It took some sleuthing. I tried adding a security to Quicken with the ticker ITR and saw that it wanted me to use INDEX:ITR. I forced it to use ITR, then downloaded the price history. 

I then divided @KDJ21's market value by his holding of 5 shares to get a price $79,919.84, which matched the price of "ITR" on 5/17. Voila! 

Jim_Harman

@KDJ21

Placeholders force your share count in Quicken to match your broker's share count when you have missing or incorrect transactions. Resolving them incorrectly may indeed cause your balances to be wrong, but not in the same way you describe above. Always back up your data file before changing historical transactions.

See this FAQ post
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7267839/quicken-faq-managing-placeholder-entries-in-quicken-for-windows#latest
for more information on Placeholders and post back if you have further questions.