Why does the brokerage balance not match?

In June 2021 My employer changed the brokerage for the 401k plans, from Wells Fargo to Principal. I was set up for automatic transaction downloads with Wells Fargo to Quicken. When the new handler took over I set this up again. Individual transactions were being listed. Account history back to 09/2014 transferred initially. Since day one the account balance showing in Quicken is 200k more than that showing on the principal website. If I delete the account in Quicken I am concerned the history will be lost. Should I make a 'one time' "adjustment"?

Best Answers

  • Quicken Francisco
    Quicken Francisco Alumni ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021 Answer ✓
    Hello @ranamaska

    I was taking a look at Principal to see what might be the issue and stumbled upon this post from a while ago. 

    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7859364/principal-com-401k-and-bofa-hsa-accounts-do-not-link

    Given this post does say Principal 401k's do not download automatically into Quicken I would double check with Principal to see if this still may be the case as it's been quite a while since the posting date.

    If you have any questions please let us know and we'll see what we can find out.

    Thanks,
    Quicken Francisco
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Answer ✓
    Thanks Francisco!
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
    Hi @ranamaska,

    All you need to do have your Quicken file open and then double click on the .qfx file. That will start the import process.

    Frankx

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  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
    ranamaska said:
    Chris_QPW - thanks for the info. I am a Q- Mac user.
    The price per "share" has been correct. The number of items being held they call "units/shares" is called "shares" in Quicken. That number is incorrectly downloading. So, How do I look at the QFX data without downloading it into Quicken? Will there be any thought to correcting that bug you spoke of?
    1. The fact that it is called shares in Quicken isn't really important.  It is like complaining that they call a field Payee whereas someone else might call it Description.   The important part is that everything stay consistent.  If they are sending "units" then the price needs to be in units.  And since Quicken's third party quote service is the price of shares for a given security, then it can't be used if units are what this security is being reported in.  Note this should be in the exact same as what is on the financial institution's statements/website.  They certainly shouldn't be showing you shares with the public price for those shares when they are in turn sending the information to Quicken in units (and price per unit) with the "private price".
    2. To look at the contents of the QFX data you should be able to look at the OFX log.  @jacobs can point you to that in Quicken Mac(I'm a Quicken Windows user). I will give examples of transactions and the price information below.
    3. As for the problem in Quicken Mac it is the fact that you can't turn off the incorrect quote from the third party service. It insists on putting the price per share of the security it matched, even though in reality it isn't a match.  The Public security is with the same name is priced in shares not units.  I no idea if the Quicken development team will fix this problem or not.

    At this point personally I think the only thing you can do is stop downloading transactions and enter them manually.  The reason is simple, yes you can do as @jacobs suggested and change either the units or the price, but that won't "hold".  If you change the price because that security is "connected" the next day the third party quote service is going to download a new price and overwrite your manual entry.  If you change the number units to what it would be in shares, then the next buy or sell will have to be corrected too.

    Example of a mutual fund by (Note in OFX format there isn't anything called "shares" it is "units" which means whatever the security happens to use).
                        <BUYMF>
                            <INVBUY>
                                <INVTRAN>
                                    <FITID>230590534
                                    <DTTRADE>20100923160000.000[-5:EST]
                                    <DTSETTLE>20100924160000.000[-5:EST]
                                    <MEMO>BUY
                                </INVTRAN>
                                <SECID>
                                    <UNIQUEID>461418691
                                    <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP
                                </SECID>
                                <UNITS>97.276
                                <UNITPRICE>10.2800279
                                <TOTAL>-1000.0
                                <SUBACCTSEC>CASH
                                <SUBACCTFUND>CASH
                            </INVBUY>
                            <BUYTYPE>BUY
                        </BUYMF>

    Then the QFX data has a "summary" at the end with all your positions and their prices and such:
                <MFINFO>
                    <SECINFO>
                        <SECID>
                            <UNIQUEID>921935201
                            <UNIQUEIDTYPE>CUSIP
                        </SECID>
                        <SECNAME>Vanguard Wellington Fund Admiral Shares
                        <TICKER>VWENX
                        <FIID>0521
                        <UNITPRICE>55.76
                        <MEMO>Price as of date based on closing price
                    </SECINFO>
                    <MFTYPE>OPENEND
                </MFINFO>
     
    Note that I'm using a formatter here your data might all be on one line.
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Answer ✓
    NEW posting from Principal website >>

    Effective June 1, 2021, we updated our Quicken® download system. Please run your back-up process within Quicken prior to downloading a new file from our website. Review the Quicken Web Connect conversion instructions for more information.
    Due to these changes, Quicken may not recognize previously downloaded transactions. In order to avoid downloading duplicate transactions, please download custom dates beginning with the day following your last transaction.
«1

Answers

  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi @ranamaska

    Assuming that your account balance in Quicken for this account when it was held at Wells Fargo was correct (i.e. meaning is agreed with the Wells Fargo online balance at the time), it sounds like something happened to your Quicken account for the 401k plan as part of the transfer of the account to Principal.  It is not uncommon that duplicate transactions, or other issues can appear when such a changeover to a new financial institution happens.

    However, given the large amount of the disparity between what Quicken shows and what the Principal has, I would not suggest that you make a "one time" adjustment.  Instead, I suggest that you try to locate where the problem lies.  You can do this by comparing the holdings one by one - as shown in your Quicken account - to the current holdings per Principal's online balance on the web.

    Let me know if you have any questions or need additional help.

    Frankx


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  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Thanks Frankx - deleted the account - no unable to get it set up at all - canon get past user/password for the institution - odd that it was the same previous to the deletion....
  • Quicken Francisco
    Quicken Francisco Alumni ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021 Answer ✓
    Hello @ranamaska

    I was taking a look at Principal to see what might be the issue and stumbled upon this post from a while ago. 

    https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7859364/principal-com-401k-and-bofa-hsa-accounts-do-not-link

    Given this post does say Principal 401k's do not download automatically into Quicken I would double check with Principal to see if this still may be the case as it's been quite a while since the posting date.

    If you have any questions please let us know and we'll see what we can find out.

    Thanks,
    Quicken Francisco
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Answer ✓
    Thanks Francisco!
  • Quicken Francisco
    Quicken Francisco Alumni ✭✭✭✭
    @ranamaska

    Glad to hear the post was able to help you out. If you do call principal please let us know if you're able to get any updates.

    Thanks,
    Quicken Francisco
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Principal instructions for downloads to Quicken;
    ""You can download transactions into software such as Quicken®, which can be done by following the below steps:

    Step 1 - From the personal summary dashboard, click on “view account details” for the applicable plan.
    Step 2 - From the tabs at the top of the page, click on Overview.
    Step 3 - Under Overview, click Account History.
    Step 4 - Under All Changes Made to Your Account, click Download Transactions.
    Step 5 - Select the software you are using and the date range you wish to import (up to 92 days at a time).
    Step 6 - Click on the button titled Download.

    The menu may appear differently when accessing your account from a mobile device instead of a desktop computer. You can maximize your mobile browser for a full view of the links.

    If you have further questions, just e-mail us through the secure participant website at principal.com or give us a call at 800.547.7754 and we'll be happy to help. We are available Monday through Friday 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. Central Time""

    Just no direct download as set up in Quicken.
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    now - how do I get the download file of transactions moved into Quicken? It is a qfx file.
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
    Hi @ranamaska,

    All you need to do have your Quicken file open and then double click on the .qfx file. That will start the import process.

    Frankx

                            Quicken Home, Business & Rental Property - Windows 10-Home Version

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  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Got the import complete - now I am back to original balance discrepancy. I guess make an "adjustment" on the opening date?
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like I said above, I generally don't advise simply making such a large adjustment without trying to find out what caused it (but that is just me).  If you are comfortable that the balance in the account is accurate, then yes you can make that adjustment as of the opening date.

    Frankx

                            Quicken Home, Business & Rental Property - Windows 10-Home Version

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  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    No I am not "comfortable". I will reach out to Principal again.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited August 2021
    Can you hunt down the source of the problem? You say the balance in Quicken is $200k more than on the Principal website. I would pick a date in time such as June 30 and compare the two, one security at a time, to see where the discrepancy is. Hopefully, it's just one security, and then you can dig into that security to find the source of the problem.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    will try.
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Principal advised deleting the account in Quicken and perform a history download as if a new account. I did this and still had the same high disparity. There is no place on the Principal site to see the individual transactions to compare the data.
  • Frankx
    Frankx SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi again @ranamaska,

    Sorry if I am going back over things already covered, but I have two questions:

    1) when looking at the detailed data in your Quicken datafile and any statements and/or account balances that you have at certain points in time, can you pinpoint the timeframe when the account went out of balance?

    2) you've mentioned that there is a difference between the current balance in Quicken to the current balance per the Principal website of approximately 20K - which one is higher?

    Frankx

                            Quicken Home, Business & Rental Property - Windows 10-Home Version

                                             - - - - Quicken User since 1984 - - - 
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  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just thinking....was the balance ok when it was just Wells Fargo?   Did you set up a new account for Principal or continue in the same account?   Did you get the Wells Fargo funds zeroed out or still have a balance?   How did you transfer WF to Principal? Is the funds or stocks the same?  Like the same # of shares and price per share?  Or is it in new funds at Principle?
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Frankx - the only time the 200k+ (not 20k) difference shows is during the initial download / import of data directly from Principal to Quicken. Then that balance carries on for each date thereafter.

    volvogirl - Last day with Wells Fargo (3/30/2021) the balance was correct. First day of record with Principal (3/31/2021), according to the download and an email from Principal the balance is 200k+ more. I don't think they gave me a signing bonus.
    Wells Fargo is zeroed / all funds & stocks appear the same. Specific info from Wells Fargo is not available since the account is closed. They offer no assistance to restore past records.
    The account is "closed" in Quicken and does not show individual transactions to compare visually.

    I hesitate to open a Quicken "recent" backup (prior to 3/30/2021) to make a comparison. I would not have the current Principal version on screen to see.
    I did delete the account in Quicken yesterday. I performed a new download/ import as of 9:30am today with the same result.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Sorry if you've explained this prior, but I'm not clear on where the $200k difference is between Quicken and Principal? If you log into the Principal website, you can view the number of shares and market value of each of your holdings. In Quicken, you can click on your Principal account and view the Portfolio grouped buy security. Now compare each security between Principal and Quicken to find where this is a discrepancy. Is it one stock/fund which is off, or multiple, or all? 
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    What specific info is permitted in this venue?
    I found the exact difference in one holding.The holding is a stock.
    In Quicken it is in the "shares" column. In Principal it is in the "Units/Shares" column.
    Principal shows"1324.743352075 Units". Quicken shows "1324.743352075 Shares".
    Quicken is multiplying the share value by the number of units not the number of shares. (share value at this moment= 207.17).
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Multiply shares by the share price is correct.
    Multiply units by unit price is correct.
    Multiply units by share price is not correct.

    How to fix this?
  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check the price history.  Sounds like the units (or shares) got entered instead of the price per share.
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    I agree with your assumption.
    This was a direct download & import. Who or where was the incorrect unit/share entered? (Principal or Quicken)
    Can I correct it in the Quicken register? Will I need to correct it each time I perform a download & import?
    I can point this out to Principal and wait and see.
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    I'd just correct it and then just keep an eye on it to see if this recurs going forward. If the share price and number of shares are reversed in a transaction, it's likely a Principal problem.
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    how do I "correct it"? Add a new transaction for the 'adjusted' amount?
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    ranamaska said:
    how do I "correct it"? Add a new transaction for the 'adjusted' amount?
    I just re-read your posts above, and I realize I'm confused. Before advising further, I'm seeking clarity. You're talking about "units" and "shares". What is the difference? 

    You wrote: 
    Principal shows"1324.743352075 Units".
    Quicken shows "1324.743352075 Shares".
    So identical numbers, correct? 

    You then wrote:
    Quicken is multiplying the share value by the number of units not the number of shares.
    If the number of "units" and the number of shares are identical, then where is the problem?

    You also wrote:
    Multiply shares by the share price is correct.
    Multiply units by unit price is correct. 
    Multiply units by share price is not correct.
    Again, this doesn't make sense to me. Based on the numbers you provided:

    Multiply shares by the share price is correct.
    1324.743352075 shares x $207.17 = $274,447.08

    Multiply units by unit price is correct. 
    1324.743352075 units x $207.17 = $274,447.08

    Multiply units by share price is not correct.
    1324.743352075 units x $207.17 = $274,447.08

    These are all the same. What am I missing?
    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Sorry if you are more confused than me!
    Shares - (as I understand it is shares of a stock) this term is used by both Quicken and Principal.
    Units-( I am not sure what type of measurement this is) is used by Principal.
    In my Quicken register there is a column "Shares" that notes the number of each share in the account.
    On the Principal website there a similar column titled,"Units/Shares". They list a "unit price AND a share price. And the number of each in the same place.
    Both are in the same column (cell?).
    The per share price matches what you would see for the market price of that stock. I do not know what the unit price/designation signifies in this case.
    So, searching for a mathematical error, I found that the exact dollar amount of the discrepancy was that the number of "units x share price" = the incorrect balance. The units are listed first in the (cell?) I think that somehow this balance figure (number of units) was transmitted instead of the (number of shares) during the data download and Quicken took it to mean the balance for that specific share of the account.
    Therefore, number of units x share price= incorrect balance. Then, number of shares x share price=correct balance.

    There seems to be a fault in the formula/algorithm used to transmit the data from Principal to Quicken 'qfx' file to be downloaded and imported into the Quicken program.

    >better or worse?<
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    I am waiting for an explanation from Principal to define "units" and "unit price".
    I have presented my transmittal error theory to them as well.
    waiting....
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    Is screen shot comparison a choice?
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    Thanks for the additional explanation. Screen shot(s) might be very helpful, because I'm still confused... ;)

    Where I'm confused is that you say "They list a unit price AND a share price." It seems like for the type of security you own, shares and units are synonymous; perhaps there are other types of securities for which they are different, or they don't call the holdings shares? In any case, are you saying the value in shares and units on the Principal site are the same or different?

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • ranamaska
    ranamaska Member ✭✭
    "Huntington Inglass Industries Inc." is in question (they misspelled it on their website).
This discussion has been closed.