Mortgage splits from transfer

ShobiR

Quicken Deluxe-subscription version, Windows.
Long time user, but was never able to figure this out before. Just refinanced and want to get it set up right from the start. I'm entering manually, not doing a direct download.
I do not have an escrow.

Have the GR21-Mort set up, has all the right terms.
Transferring payment from checking. Splits it to:
Home:Mortgage:Interest 369.35
[GR21-Mort] 260.65

It's deducting both amounts from the principal, the 369.35 needs to get applied differently and I can't figure out how. It's right in front of me...I know it - but I can't see it. Help? Please.

I would like this to auto-calculate the Principal & Interest.

Sherlock

ShobiR said:

Thanks, but you suspect wrong.

The loan payment transaction should not be a transfer:

Sherlock

ShobiR said:

Quicken Deluxe-subscription version, Windows.
Long time user, but was never able to figure this out before. Just refinanced and want to get it set up right from the start. I'm entering manually, not doing a direct download.
I do not have an escrow.

Have the GR21-Mort set up, has all the right terms.
Transferring payment from checking. Splits it to:
Home:Mortgage:Interest 369.35
[GR21-Mort] 260.65

It's deducting both amounts from the principal, the 369.35 needs to get applied differently and I can't figure out how. It's right in front of me...I know it - but I can't see it. Help? Please.

I would like this to auto-calculate the Principal & Interest.

I suspect you did not enter the split payment transaction in the checking account.

ShobiR

Thanks, but you suspect wrong.

Tom Young

If you set up this loan as a manual, non-downloading loan, using the Quicken loan "wizard", then as part of that process Quicken calculates a complete amortization table for the loan.  As part of the setup you can have Quicken enter the monthly payments against the loan in your checking Account.  The entry will properly split the payment between principal and interest along the lines of:

Debit (decrease) GR21-Mort Account                          $260.65
Debit (increase) Home:Mortgage:Interest Category  $369.35
Credit (decrease) Checking Account                            $630.00

In order to have Quicken make this entry you need to go back into the loan Account and "Edit" the "Monthly Payment."  On the "Loan Details" page that shows up click the "Edit Loan Reminder" button and then on the following page click the blue "Change" link next to the "Remind me..." line and that's where you can tell Quicken to make the entry for you.

If the entire payment is being deducted against the principal of the loan that does suggest you made the entry in the loan Account itself.  Delete your entry then make the correct entry in the Checking Account and you should be OK.

ShobiR

this is the entry in my checking account.

Tom Young

@ShobiR

Click on the green arrow in the register for that split and post a picture of the entire split window where Category names are completely spelled out.  Did you make that entry yourself as opposed to having Quicken make the split?

This issue here may be that with a mortgage payment you can't just use any old line of the split for any Category or Transfer; Quicken introduced a quirk some years ago where specific lines of the split are effectively "reserved" for interest, escrow and principal reductions - including "extra" principal payments - and that may be the problem here.

ShobiR

the problem is that it is deducting both splits from the principal. If I have one as a (credit) it messes with the total payment amount deducted from my checking.

ShobiR

here's that window chain...

ShobiR

I want to make a static $630 month payment and have it split automatically between principal and interest.
Principal needs to be reduced.
Interest needs to be accrued.

ShobiR

Hi Tom,
Your last message didn't come thru until after I replied (several times). I think I included the right screenshot?

I believe I used the wizard to set up the mortgage - but that was over a month ago, and my memory is suspect. ;)

Tom Young

I can't see anything wrong here, but you didn't show the split out of the checking Account and the "From account" information is obscured, though I don't think you actually can use the loan Account as the "from" Account. 

How does that split look coming out of the checking Account?

ShobiR

the problem is the interest is being deducted from the principal.

Tom Young

I understand the problem, I just don't understand the "why."  Everything looks like it should be working properly... except the transaction is being shown as a "transfer" in your checking Account and that's not correct.  It's a split transaction with a piece of the split going to a Category and another piece going to an Account, the actual "transfer" portion.

Maybe delete the transaction and re-enter it without that TXFR in the Check column?????

ShobiR

Has to be a transfer? It's getting paid from my checking account.

Also spent some time with a very helpful guy at Quicken, and we had zero luck. Found one work around, a second -365.34 entry to the [mortgage] but that also ended up reducing the amount deducted from the checking.
Additionally, these numbers are going to change every month. Doesn't seem like this is going to work at all.

I was only doing this as a backup to my monthly statement, hated that my old mortgage and quicken accounts never matched. But, this is turning into so much work, not really worth it. :(

Tom Young

"Has to be a transfer? It's getting paid from my checking account."

NO.  Everything is paid from your checking account. 

A "transfer" in Quicken is a movement of money from one Account to another Account and your payment isn't that, at least not exclusively.  Some of the payment is going to a Category so calling the entire payment a transfer isn't correct. 

If you manually enter a payment in your checking Account and specify TXFR there's a programmatic effect - only Accounts show up in the Category box and you can't split that entry,

I have no real idea if this is the problem - I couldn't duplicate it but I always tend to be several updates behind the "most recent" update - so I see no harm in deleting the entry and then re-entering it not using the TXFR trigger.

UKR

As far as I can determine, this loan setup is entirely correct.

You pay $630 from your checking account.

The Split detail indicates that, with your October payment, $366.85 will go into an expense category, Home:Mortgage:Interest
The remainder of your payment, $257.12, plus extra principal of $6.03 (because you're paying $630 instead of the required $623.97) for a total of $263.15 is transferred to the [Mortgage 2021] account register. The mortgage account register should show a reduction in the balance of $263.15

The only thing in the entire picture that I can see and that is not correct is:
- The payee name field in the Edit Loan Payment Reminder begins with "Mort" (Mortgage 2021, I'm guessing)
- The partially visible loan account register in your image shows payment transactions with a payee name beginning with "Guara..."
Are you using two different reminders to make your mortgage payment?
The one generated by the loan setup process in Quicken (named Mortgage 2021) should be used. It contains all the required data to correctly record principal and interest as the amounts vary every month. All you need to do is to change it to the required payee name so that, if you pay by check, a correctly named and addressed check can be printed.

ShobiR

Tom,
I realized the difference about 30 seconds after I pressed send here. ;) Yes, the entry in my register can just be an entry with splits. No TXFR. I removed that from the field to see if it changed anything and nothing. I haven't tried a whole new entry yet (which might clear any background thing from the transfer). I'm afraid to delete this checking entry because I get a warning that I can't backdate entries to the mortgage account. I'll play around with this tonight.

ShobiR

UKR,
Thanks for the review and input! The 'Guar' you are seeing in the name field is just a name. (the name of the bank). The [Mortgage2021] is my name for the same thing. There is only one reminder set to the [Mortgage2021].

I pay this through my banks webpay, set up with my bank not quicken. No checks printed. I'm happy with this set up. I did join the 21st century this year and started using the Quicken Download feature to import all my transactions. (this is so nice! don't know why I waited so long!). Payee names shouldn't matter, it's the categories that the splits go to that have to be correct. Right?

The Reminder is set up with [Mortgage2021] and I'll swap out the downloaded entry (that doesn't have a split) for that when reconciling. (delete the download and enter the reminder)

Thank you both for your help! This is a pesky little problem, eats at me. ;)

UKR

In a way, for a mortgage, it matters.

I can't see what the split definitions that you have recorded in the mortgage account register for the "Guar..." transaction look like.  What they should be is exactly what the loan setup - created Scheduled Reminder "Mortgage 2021" uses.

What you should do is use the "Mortgage 2021" reminder and record it into your checking account register every month, a day or so before the due date. Then, in the checking account, when the downloaded payment transaction comes in, match it to the already existing correctly split transaction and you're all set.

Sherlock

ShobiR said:

Thanks, but you suspect wrong.

The loan payment transaction should not be a transfer: