Another Schwab Issue: SWVXX is a SECURITY, it is NOT CASH [Edited]

dennismd

> @BLP said:
> Look at your holdings for the accounts, you can backup the dates to see when they went away. Mine disappeared on two accounts because I followed Quickens recommendation. Still trying to figure out how to completely back out of that mistake. I followed the advice of this thread, but ended up having to do a placeholder on the one account to add the SWVXX value back, not ideal. The other account has a linked checking account and I can't adjust Cash Balance in the Investment account, says to do it in the checking account, but there is NO command to adjust Cash Balance in the checking account, so it still is using SWVXX wrong. Today updating another account, even though I didn't say yes to their recommendation, Quicken went ahead and changed and lost my SWVXX funds.

Thanks BLP. I'm using Quicken for Mac. All of my history for SWVXX is still displays in the the various accounts. I checked "Windows/Securities" and it lists SWVXX as a "Mutual Fund", but the "Currently Held" check column does not have a green check mark. I think I will give Quicken a few days to self-correct the issue (I know wishful thinking). If it doesn't show up, I'll probably do a manual entry for the current values in each account.

Tom Young

Try going to the affected Account and clicking on "Update Cash Balance."  You should be able to move the SWGXX back to "cash" as opposed to "security" by clicking the Cash Representation button.

hongolito

I had posted earlier with the same issue concerning SWGXX. Unfortunately, I am not presented with the "cash representation" option in the update cash balance selection. SWGXX continues to download as a security which I delete to keep cash balances accurate. My attempt changing SWGXX attribute from mutual fund to cash was also unsuccessful.

BLP

Been doing the same thing deleting them, although it would be nice if we didn't have to. Lots of other issues with the Schwab downloads.

artg

@hongolito
@BLP

Good morning and thank you both.  As I stated in this thread yesterday, my problem is SWGXX and I'm solving it the same way you are...with the delete key.  Like BLP said, this issue (SWGXX cash sweeps) along with several other Schwab download issues has changed the way I now have to handle OSU.  As I've stated all over this community over the last six weeks, I no longer have confidence it what we're downloading.

BLP

Tom Young, there are more steps than just the one you reference in your screen shot. First off the message from Quicken would say that they "ARE treating the Securities as a Cash Balance" then you would have to click on Change. Then you Update the Transactions again then you get the initial box that started this entire fiasco with Quicken's incorrect suggestion, there you click on Maintain as Security. After updating, there is the issue with the placeholder that 'Established the Cash Balance', when do you delete that? Before or after you make the changes referenced above. But even after you do all that at least in 2 of my accounts SWVXX still doesn't show up as a security or even the value in my holdings listing after the date that all this occurred.

This screen shot is of my holdings on Dec 20: notice the entry for SWVXX:
This screen shot is of my holdings on Dec 21: Where did my SWVXX go? It also shows my Account balance without the SWVXX value. To be fair I had deleted the "Establish the Cash Balance" by this time, the only way I can figure out how to get it back is with a place holder entry.



In summary the suggestions that both Lars88 and Tom Young have stated to reverse the change to Cash Balance change do not work completely. Am looking to Quicken for an ultimate solution and as Tom Young has stated in an earlier post a revision to their recommendations because they are clearly wrong.

RLF3rd

Several of my Schwab accounts have two “money funds:” SWVXX and SWGXX. Based on the recommendation of the Q popup, I directed Q to treat SWVXX as my cash holdings for those accounts. Later, I realized that Schwab treats SWVXX as a security and treats the other money fund, SWGXX, as the cash for these accounts. I was able to reverse the way Q treats SWVXX, so it is now set to treat SWVXX as a security. (I did this by clicking on the Cash Balance number at the bottom of the account page, then clicking on Cash Representation at the bottom of the popup, then changing the treatment of SWVXX from cash to security. I had to do this for each of the accounts that contained SWVXX.)

However, I could not find a way to get Q treat SWGXX as the cash for these accounts, which is how SWGXX is treated by Schwab. I made sure that the asset classification for SWGXX was set as cash, but it did not help. Q appears to recommend only SWVXX for the cash treatment, even though this differs from how Schwab treats SWVXX.

I brought this issue to the attention of a Q Customer Support rep while on the phone trying to resolve another issue related to the Schwab account authorization debacle. He turned to this forum to read the posts on this issue while we spoke. I suggested that he escalate this issue; he said he would, but we’ll see if it leads to anything. I’m also going to bring it to Schwab’s attention this week in case Q is acting at Schwab’s direction on this.

In the meantime, my workaround is to treat both SWVXX and SWGXX as securities, and just zero out the cash balance for each account. If I need to reconcile with Schwab online or know the cash in an account for another reason, I can just look at the number of SWGXX shares in that account on Q. That should match the cash balance shown by Schwab online. It’s not ideal, but it should work, although I need more time to see it in practice.

And compared to the other problems to which Q and Schwab have subjected Schwab clients over the past few months, this is a minor inconvenience. I've spent more than 40 hours trying to reconcile my Schwab accounts after having to reauthorize multiple times and I'm still getting random past transactions download. As a result, I’ve given up on having Q ever be an accurate representation of my Schwab accounts. Hopefully, I can figure out a way to make it close enough.

Good luck all.

BLP

I think I figured out how to get rid of my issues with SWVXX, at least with 2 of my accounts. My problem was that after reversing the decision in accordance with Lars88 advice I had hidden placeholders removing the shares, and I couldn't figure out how to delete them. Then I followed one of the Placeholder instructions about unhiding hidden place holders, see attached. then they showed up and I deleted them, appears to be accurate now.

I still have the issue, and haven't delved into yet, with the investment account that has a linked checking account and no way to adjust the balance, NOR change the method of tracking SWVXX, so that account still thinks I want to use SWVXX as cash, do not know how to change that.

As it relates to SWGXX I just delete the downloaded transactions, it populates the Cash Balance and all is well, didn't have to do that b4 and hopefully Quicken will fix ALL the issues with.

I too spent way too much time, with the initial issues when Quicken and Schwab made the change. I Still have issues with incorrect investment income designations, short term, long term, dividends, and reinvestment entries, but think I have a way of dealing with them, until Q fixes it. Kathryn appears to acknowledge the current state of affairs, except I have NOT ever seen them address this SWVXX issue.

markus1957

You could unlink the checking account and the option would likely then be available. I'd make a windows copy of the file so you can revert if it doesn't work out. I wouldn't download any transactions into the unlinked file until you were sure it worked as expected. Unlinking doesn't always go perfectly and sometimes requires some manual adjustments.

You might consider whether the linking is necessary given that investment accounts can pretty much handle cash transactions now compared to many years ago. Otherwise, you can re-establish the linked account if you want to.

CW_21

Thanks for this discussion and especially to Tom... I clicked the suggested treat as cash and found the MM was not added to cash balance in quicken, so this was a problem on top of the fact that it is really a security, not immediately available, etc.... was able to reverse with the detailed instructions you gave. THANKS

BLP

Markus1957, thanks for your suggestion. I have had this account for so long, do not remember the reason for having the linked checking account. Especially now because most of the "cash" is in SWVXX in the Investment account. I deleted the Placeholders and unlinked it, was a little afraid especially with all of the calculations it made and the final error message. But when finished everything looked good. Adjust Cash Balance came back and was able to change, performed an update, told it to track as a security.

The entire conversion process was interesting, for every transaction in the linked checking account it placed an 'unreconciled' transaction scattered throughout the Investment account, then it removed the Linked Checking account. I am amazed it worked as well as it did. Not going to back to Linked.

Thanks Again.

I think I am all caught up now, after many hours of fixing, with the entire SWVXX situation as long as it doesn't do it again without my authorization. Still seeing SWGXX transactions when I update, but just delete them.

Dee R

will second the request artg Jan1 on eliminating SWGXX downloads ... any idea if Quicken is working on this?

BScoBee

Changing Cash Representation back to treating SWVXX as a security, not cash, did not make it reappear as a Holding, and thus the total value of the account is still incorrect. Sigh...I'm really tired of the Quicken/Schwab dumpster fire.

BobC

Hello:

Thanks to @Tom Young and all those who have participated in this thread.  I thought I avoided the problems identified in this thread by not allowing Quicken to "convert" my SWVXX funds to a cash balance; this thread helped. 

Now, seeing Quicken Anga's Alert message on 2/3/2022, SWVXX (Value Advantage Money Market Fund) and SWGXX (Schwab Government Money Fund), it seems Quicken has ignored the manner in which Schwab handles SWVXX funds, and is compounding this error by forcing us all to handle it incorrectly.  Quoting from that message: "With the new connection that Charles Schwab has provided, SWVXX (Value Advantage Money Market Fund) and SWGXX (Schwab Government Money Fund) are going to appear differently in Quicken. The new format now will map the shares to cash."

From Schwab's web site, tonight, 2/5/2022, a Schwab client can see that they have "next day access to funds if shares are sold by 4:00 PM Eastern time", for purchased money funds.  SWVXX is a "purchased money fund".  Next day is NOT the same as cash.

Anyone who uses SWVXX will know that they have to buy and sell it like most funds, before they can use the results.  What our Quicken software is suggesting, does not sell your SWVXX; it simply hides it in your account's cash balance, as seen in Quicken.  However, that may be misleading to some, since it is not available to use as cash, unless you sell it in the same manner you would sell other funds or holdings, and wait until the next day.

What I find very disturbing, is after Tom's seminal, correct message, that started this thread, namely SWVXX is not a place to hold "cash", Quicken has done nothing to remove or correct the software that suggests it is, and is still attempting to get users to incorrectly "convert" it into their cash balances.  On Tuesday, 1/4/2022, as I was attempting to reconnect Quicken to my Schwab accounts, the pop up message reappeared, and again asked how I wanted to handle this fund, with the recommended choice being to "Convert this fund into my Cash Balance":

Even worse, Quicken has apparently decided to treat SWVXX as cash, without any regard to the fact that Schwab does NOT treat it that way, or to the users' preferences.  See Quicken Anja's post on 2/3/22, indicating that "This change is by design".  It also suggests that there will no longer be a choice, and that the "new format" will map shares to cash.   Is that true?  If some users want to see their SWVXX that way, and know that they must sell the fund and wait for the settlement period before they can use it as cash, fine.  But it is not an appropriate way for most users to handle SWVXX, in my opinion.

Quicken - I know this is primarily a users' forum, but that you also monitor it.  Please address this issue, to avoid creating more issues for users who are already struggling with the whole connectivity change issue.  Quicken should remove or correct the pop up message shown above.  If you have changed the design of Quicken to treat SWVXX as cash, it is a serious design error.  You need to reverse that design error, unless Schwab has changed the way they handle SWVXX funds.  When I checked with them several weeks ago, they had NOT changed their process, and SWVXX still had a 1 day settlement period, as @TomYoung stated in the first days of this post.  When I checked tonight, that is still what Schwab's web site says.

There are a number of ways to correct it; some are suggested in this thread.  However, to avoid confusion, most users should always choose to track this fund as a security.  Since Schwab does not automatically move cash in or out of SWVXX, as they would with a sweep fund, and the user needs to sell shares to use the proceeds as cash, in my opinion, it should NEVER be treated as part of a user's cash balance.

skoocat

Agreed

PAB

> @Lars88 said:
> I think I found a way to undo the selection of SWVXX as cash rather than a security. Within the given account to to Actions (Ctrl+Shift+N) > Update Cash Balance. In the popup there should be a button "Cash Representation". Click on the button and it will inform you that Quicken is treating SWVXX as your cash balance. Click "Change" and then "Done". Now click "Update Transactions" again, confirm SWVXX should be treated as a security if prompted, and then you should be good to go. At least it worked for me. Still very annoying that Quicken keeps throwing all these impediments our way--I just want my old Quicken back...

PAB

I tried this and couldn't get "Cash Representation" however, today the box to choose to treat it as Cash or a Security finally popped up and I was able to go back to treating it as a Security. Lots of time spent trying to get it back to where it was.

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