CONFERENCE CALL with Schwab, Quicken Support, and me. 1-25-2022

retird
retird Member ✭✭✭✭
Schwab was so gracious as to conference with me and Quicken today. I wanted to create a Test file with just Schwab to monitor when the issues got fixed. This would allow my main file to stay in tact minus any Schwab downloads. My main file would not be the test file any more.

I asked Quicken Support to transfer us to Level 2 Support and was told there is no Level 2.

In the conversation Quicken Support said not to create the test file as it would mess up the dataset of the main file. Quicken Support also said not to restore backups.

Quicken said they are working on resolution of Schwab and backups. 

Quicken Support also said that the Community basically is keeping us up to date and will post when the issues is fixed.  I informed CS that we are not gettig updates in the Community as she stated. 

Bottom line is I'm not downloading anything from Schwab. 

It was refreshing to have Schwab on the line when I talked to QS and they heard exactly what I did. 
Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user

Comments

  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    retird said:

    In the conversation Quicken Support said not to create the test file as it would mess up the dataset of the main file.
    This part of the statement is disconcerting.  It either implies that the people speaking don't know what is going on, or the terms used are being confused, or what they have created is "linked" in a manner it should never have been linked.

    First with the terms.  "dataset" is used for the Quicken Cloud dataset.  "data file" is used for the Quicken Desktop data file.  Were they using dataset to mean data file?

    The Quicken Desktop data file is connected to the Quicken Cloud dataset with the Quicken Id and the unique Id in the data file.  If I create a new data file using File -> New Quicken File, the new data file has a new unique Id in it.  And it and its cloud dataset are independent of the original data file/dataset.  If this wasn't the case all kinds of terrible things would happen to anyone using Sync to Mobile/Web with more than one data file.

    The above statement seems to violate this.

    Now there is more going on here once Express Web Connect is involved.
    data file -> dataset -> (Intuit data) -> account on financial institution.

    It is certainly possible that they have connected "account on financial institution" to "data file", or even "account on financial institution" to "dataset".  But that would be serious mistake.  It would imply that the data file/dataset is somehow "synced" with the "account on financial institution".  In other words, only one data file/dataset can be connected to that account otherwise the two will somehow interact.  For instance, data file/data set 1 gets some transactions.  And then data file/data set 2 asks for transactions and doesn't get any because the "account on financial institution" "says" I already sent those transactions; I'm not going to send them again.  The relationship between the data file/data set and the account at the financial institution, can't be a one-to-one sync.

    What's more it violates this statement by @Quicken Kathryn



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  • retird
    retird Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    Thx for your comments.  I'm just passing what we were told in this conference call.  Don't know who to trust any more...
    Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    If you both recall, in the beginning days of the Schwab migration in late November Quicken team informed us in this community that we could only have one data file with Schwab in it; where a second data file with Schwab would cause problems to all data files such as connection issues, re-authorization loops, etc.
    This is one link I could find on this specific "one data file" topic but there are more: https://www.quicken.com/support/charles-schwab-transaction-download-changes

    I don't know if that got resolved but it suggests something different with Schwab's EWC+ setup and the role of datasets (in this particular case only) that remains a puzzle and possibly work in progress for both companies.
    As an FYI, that migration process corrupted my Quicken ID in November, something support had never seen before as they said.  At first the focus was on my data file corruption but soon we discovered that none of my backups worked either, and further a NEW data file was problematic as well (IMO an issue with the cloud).  After a week long phone calls with various levels of support (they called me daily) I suggested (and they agreed) that the path of least resistance was to try a brand new Quicken ID and it worked.  Out of abundance of caution I still decided to create a new data file and imported my data plus house cleaning in the process.

    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • retird
    retird Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    @BK  I remember that info.  I also called Schwab as I use 2 computers with different file names to access all my financial insitutions.  Both computers are "Trusted" at Schwab and each computer has identical data but use a different file name.  Schwab checked my Security settings and made sure both computers were trusted.  I think I posted this earlier but don't hold me to that....

    My understsnding is that using the same file on 2 computers causes issues thus each file has a different name but accesses the same data.
    Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
    @BK I believe that you are correct for "how it started", but by the time @Quicken Kathryn posted that it had been resolved.

    retird said:
    @BK  I remember that info.  I also called Schwab as I use 2 computers with different file names to access all my financial insitutions.  Both computers are "Trusted" at Schwab and each computer has identical data but use a different file name.  Schwab checked my Security settings and made sure both computers were trusted.  I think I posted this earlier but don't hold me to that....

    My understsnding is that using the same file on 2 computers causes issues thus each file has a different name but accesses the same data.
    This is definitely something that you shouldn't do.

    Renaming a data file does nothing to break the connection to the Quicken cloud dataset.
    It is the Quicken Id and the unique Id in the data file that are used to connect to the cloud dataset.

    This is in fact why they changed the "Copy" in Quicken.  The new copy creates a data file with a different unique Id and turns off all online connections.

    If you use Windows copy, the unique Id hasn't been changed, and as such that data file is still connected to the same cloud dataset as the original one, provided you are using the same Quicken Id in both.

    The only "legal" way to have the same data file on two machines is by only using one at a time, and by always copying it to the other machine before you use it on that machine.

    The "sync" between the data file and the dataset pretty much depends on them "knowing the state" of the other.

    You start out and have a data file with accounts in a certain state.
    You sync that data file to the dataset.  They are now in sync.
    You change something in your data file, and sync. It knows what changed, and as such only sends that in this sync to the dataset.  Then same goes for the other direction.

    If I take that data file and copy it after the sync to another machine, at this point both files and the dataset are in agreement.

    Now I change something in data file 1, and sync.  Now data file 1 and the dataset are in agreement, but data file 2 isn't.  If I go to data file 2 at this point and sync, it might mess up depending on what changed.  This is why it very important to have first copied data file 1 to data file 2, before you sync.

    A similar problem comes up with a restore from backup.  So, how do they handle that?
    What they do is "move" the dataset to a "no longer used state" before doing the restore.  Therefore, they a new dataset is created and a full sync from the data file to the dataset is done.

    This is also one of the causes of the "You have exceeded the maximum dataset.." error.
    For some "legal" reasons they can't just delete the old dataset.  So, for every restore you are creating a new dataset, and there is a limited amount of these.  That is the reason you can get this error.  And the only way to delete a dataset is contact Quicken support and get them to delete it.
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  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    You should not use the same data file (even if renamed) on different computers as it will create conflicts.  I completely agree with what @Chris_QPW wrote so no need to repeat any further.  Cheers.

    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • retird
    retird Member ✭✭✭✭
    Conflicting info.....  hogwash....  Had 1 file that I shared with 2 computers and was said here not good but should  use 2 separate files and it is OK... now the story changed... have no issues yet with.  I created seperate files on each computer.  Separate files .....  did not just rename the same file...
    Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    Then it was misunderstanding of your earlier statement of "different name" - apologies.  Thank you for clarifying.
    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • retird
    retird Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    BK said:
    Then it was misunderstanding of your earlier statement of "different name" - apologies.  Thank you for clarifying.
    THX for clarifying....  A bit of history for you...I ran same file on 2 computers for way over 15 years without issue.  Redundance in case 1 computer crashed...Things changed with this last ownership change. That's when using the same file on both caused issues thus the 2 separate files are now my norm.  It was said here that you could only use 1 computer to connect to Schwab changeover and after talking with Schwab that was not correct.  Both computers have to be "Trusted" at Schwab (again SEPARATE FILES on each computer.)..  
    Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    Good history and thanks for sharing @retird .  I see why you are doing that.  For me I would find it time consuming to maintain two similar files for the sake of redundancy.  Say I add a specific memo to a transaction so I can run a custom report based on the value of that memo.  Then I have to remember to do the exact same thing in the second file.  Given that I update only about once a week on a very late Sun nite when all family is sleep, that is a lot of syncing work between two files prone to mistakes.  So I just rely on my regular backups.
    What is great about these discussions is that we learn from our unique individual approaches to life's challenges.
    Schwab created a major challenge when they decided to make the changes and the information on what is/isn't supported is dynamic and evolving for everyone.
    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

  • retird
    retird Member ✭✭✭✭
    @BK " Courious as to what backup system you have in case your hard drive crashes or your computer dies?
    Windows 10 and Windows 11 (separate computers)..... Quicken Premier 20+ year user
  • BK
    BK Member ✭✭✭✭
    I sent you the detail in a private message since it is not Quicken related.
    - QWin Deluxe user since 2010, US subscription on Win11
    - I don't use Cloud Sync, Mobile & Web, Bill Pay/Mgr

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