Citi credit cards - Update Continuing To be a problem

neil154

I have 2 Citi credit cards and 1 Costco credit (which really also Citi).  Every time I do an update they both fail ( all other update working fine.  I did a super validate, I did a stop updating then restart the online update process again, nothing seems to have fixed it.  When they fail I sometimes get a "fix it" and when I do that it succeeds and transactions are downloaded but next update same issue.  Sometimes after failure I just try again and it works okay.  Very frustrating, any ideas how to get it working properly?

Sherlock

We've had no issues importing our transactions using the Direct Connect connection method with Citi Cards.

If you're not using the Direct Connect connection method with your Citi Cards account registers, I suggest you deactivate the Online Services of all account registers available with Citi Cards and clear the name of the financial institution on the General tab of the Account Details window.  After you have deactivated the Online Services of all the account registers available with Citi Cards and cleared the financial institution name on the General tab of the Account Details window available at Citi Cards, select Tools > Add Account..., search for Citi Cards, select Advanced Options, and choose Direct Connect.  After you authenticate, Quicken should provide a list of the available accounts and allow you to link the account to the appropriate existing registers.

You may need allow Quicken access to your Citi account at https://citi.com/datamanagement 

Note: When we change the connection method, the initial import may present duplicate transactions which may be deleted.

Chris_QPW

Express Web Connect + over Express Web Connect is just talking about the connection between Intuit and the financial institution.  Note that Quicken Inc pays Intuit for Express Web Connect/aggregation.

Express Web Connect flow:
Quicken -> Quicken servers/Quicken Cloud data set (this is "Sync") -> Intuit servers -> financial institution's website

The connection between Intuit and the financial institution's website for Express Web Connect is an "agreed method" between the two.  It could be any kind of way to log in as the user and get the transactions in any kind of format.

The + means they have standardized on using the FDX protocol as documented here.
https://financialdataexchange.org/

Direct by contrast is Quicken talking directly to the financial institution using the OFX protocol/server.

Sherlock

neil154 said:

I have other accounts and most of them do not support direct connect.  I noticed that Schwab has a connection of "Web Express +".  Do you have any idea what is different about that type of connection that has the +?

Intuit continues to have difficulty maintaining the Express Web Connect connection method for Quicken.  If you are not willing to accept the unreliability of this connection method, I suggest you use the Direct Connect or the Web Connect connection method if available instead.  If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-quicken-connects-your-bank

Express Web Connect+ is just a flavor of Express Web Connect.  Schwab decided to terminate their support for their Direct Connect server to save money.  The difference between Express Web Connect+ and Express Web Connect is that instead of Intuit maintaining the user's authentication credentials on their servers, they maintain authentication tokens instead.  

Chris_QPW

neil154 said:

But am I correct, that with Express Web Connect my login information is still stored on servers someplace and with direct connect the only place my login information is stored is on my Windows PC?

That is correct.

For Express Web Connect (without the plus) yes, they are definitely stored on a server:
Why don't I need to enter my bank password to download from my bank?

And yes, for Direct Connect, the only place they are stored is in the Password Vault in your data file (that is provided that you use the Password Vault, otherwise the password isn't stored anywhere {you enter it each time you run One Step Update}).

Sherlock

We've had no issues importing our transactions using the Direct Connect connection method with Citi Cards.

If you're not using the Direct Connect connection method with your Citi Cards account registers, I suggest you deactivate the Online Services of all account registers available with Citi Cards and clear the name of the financial institution on the General tab of the Account Details window.  After you have deactivated the Online Services of all the account registers available with Citi Cards and cleared the financial institution name on the General tab of the Account Details window available at Citi Cards, select Tools > Add Account..., search for Citi Cards, select Advanced Options, and choose Direct Connect.  After you authenticate, Quicken should provide a list of the available accounts and allow you to link the account to the appropriate existing registers.

You may need allow Quicken access to your Citi account at https://citi.com/datamanagement 

Note: When we change the connection method, the initial import may present duplicate transactions which may be deleted.

neil154

Is the user name and password the same for Express Web connect and direct connect?

Sherlock

neil154 said:

Is the user name and password the same for Express Web connect and direct connect?

Yes.  The user name and password used to authenticate access to Citi Cards accounts are the same for any connection method.

neil154

I followed your directions but then I got an error message.  I tried using the link you provided for allowing Quicken access to the citi account but did not see where to provide access.

Would appreciate further help. 

neil154

I tried that link again and this time it worked and I was able to connect using Direct Connect.  Thanks for the help.  I still have the same issue with the Costco card since it is not direct connect

Chris_QPW

neil154 said:

I still have the same issue with the Costco card since it is not direct connect

The same thing applies to the Costco card which is serviced by Citi Cards.

I have a Costco Citi Visa card setup with Direct Connect and I'm having no problems with it.

neil154

How did you connect by Direct Connect for the Costco card?  The Costco Anywhere Card does not have an "advanced option".  I tried using the Citi Card and the advanced option but it just connected with web express.  The costco card has a different user name and password than the citi card so they could not all be added one time.

Chris_QPW

neil154 said:

How did you connect by Direct Connect for the Costco card?  The Costco Anywhere Card does not have an "advanced option".  I tried using the Citi Card and the advanced option but it just connected with web express.  The costco card has a different user name and password than the citi card so they could not all be added one time.

Don't use "Costco Anywhere Card" for the financial institution that is just like "Citibank" and will get you only Express Web Connect.  Use "Citi Cards" for the financial institution.

neil154

I tried using citi card and advanced options but everytime it connects with express web even though I tell it direct connect.  I attached screen prints to show you what I am doing.  I believe I am doing exactly correctly.

Would appreciate your thoughts on the issue

Sherlock

neil154 said:

I tried using citi card and advanced options but everytime it connects with express web even though I tell it direct connect.  I attached screen prints to show you what I am doing.  I believe I am doing exactly correctly.

Would appreciate your thoughts on the issue

You may need allow Quicken access to your Citi account at https://citi.com/datamanagement 

neil154

Thanks so much, that did the trick once I gave it access.

neil154

I have other accounts and most of them do not support direct connect.  I noticed that Schwab has a connection of "Web Express +".  Do you have any idea what is different about that type of connection that has the +?

Ps56k2

neil154 said:  Do you have any idea what is different about that type of connection that has the "EWC+" ?

CapOne migrated awhile ago and Schwab did last fall - it was a disaster of a migration from Direct Connect.

Others will probably follow - like maybe Chase over the summer. 

It offers a way to connect with tokens vs User Credentials and some other internal warm and fuzzies -
usually with the retiring of Direct Connect for their connection protocol.

neil154

From what I was told, with web connect my login information is stored on a Quicken server someplace (encrypted) but with Direct Connect my login information is only stored on my Windows PC.  So I am concerned about security.  If some hacks a server someplace I will find out about several months later if I am lucky but if someone hacks my PC would probably know it very quickly.

Am I off base?

Chris_QPW

Express Web Connect + over Express Web Connect is just talking about the connection between Intuit and the financial institution.  Note that Quicken Inc pays Intuit for Express Web Connect/aggregation.

Express Web Connect flow:
Quicken -> Quicken servers/Quicken Cloud data set (this is "Sync") -> Intuit servers -> financial institution's website

The connection between Intuit and the financial institution's website for Express Web Connect is an "agreed method" between the two.  It could be any kind of way to log in as the user and get the transactions in any kind of format.

The + means they have standardized on using the FDX protocol as documented here.
https://financialdataexchange.org/

Direct by contrast is Quicken talking directly to the financial institution using the OFX protocol/server.

Sherlock

neil154 said:

I have other accounts and most of them do not support direct connect.  I noticed that Schwab has a connection of "Web Express +".  Do you have any idea what is different about that type of connection that has the +?

Intuit continues to have difficulty maintaining the Express Web Connect connection method for Quicken.  If you are not willing to accept the unreliability of this connection method, I suggest you use the Direct Connect or the Web Connect connection method if available instead.  If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-quicken-connects-your-bank

Express Web Connect+ is just a flavor of Express Web Connect.  Schwab decided to terminate their support for their Direct Connect server to save money.  The difference between Express Web Connect+ and Express Web Connect is that instead of Intuit maintaining the user's authentication credentials on their servers, they maintain authentication tokens instead.  

Ps56k2

neil154 said:  So I am concerned about security. 

Actually, the EWC+ is a better way to go in that there is only a 1-time exchange and signon into your financial institution to setup a "token" that is uniquely shared and stored on your PC.... so even if any "server" is hacked, all they have is a unique token that is shared to your Quicken software - no User ID, no Password, no Account Info, no Access...

neil154

Thanks for the additional info

Sherlock

Ps56k2 said:

neil154 said:  So I am concerned about security. 

Actually, the EWC+ is a better way to go in that there is only a 1-time exchange and signon into your financial institution to setup a "token" that is uniquely shared and stored on your PC.... so even if any "server" is hacked, all they have is a unique token that is shared to your Quicken software - no User ID, no Password, no Account Info, no Access...

EWC+ is a security improvement over EWC.  EWC+ and EWC are less secure than Direct Connect and Web Connect.

Note: The unique token is not stored on your PC or shared to your Quicken software.  The token is maintained in Intuit servers with your Account info, ....

Chris_QPW

There are actually many things to consider when one wants to talk about security.

The main thing the + is about is the account security at the financial institution.

What Schwab got out of this over a cost reduction is that they forced all of the aggregators to use FDX and as such the usernames and passwords for their accounts are no longer being stored on the aggregator's servers.  Note that Intuit was just one of their "clients".  And the others weren't using Direct Connect, and as such were storing usernames and passwords on their servers.

The "tokens" ensure that there isn't anything on the aggregator's server that a hacker can use to log into your account at the financial institution.

But when talking about security one should also think about the transactions, not just the user credentials (even though these are the most critical). 

With Express Web Connect, your transactions are definitely going to be stored both on the Intuit servers and on the Quicken servers.  How far back is "not known" since Quicken Inc never states this, but I would guess at least a month's worth are.  If you are actually using sync to Mobile/Web then it will years of transactions.

Direct Connect isn't without its security problems as implemented currently by Quicken and the financial institutions.

Usernames and passwords are stored in your data file.  And as such are "hackable" if the hacker can somehow gain access to your machine.

It should be noted that this isn't a limitation of the OFX protocol.  This is a limitation of Quicken Inc/financial institutions not keeping up with the times.

As discussed above FDX uses a token.  The actual protocol is OAuth2.  And the OFX protocol allows for this kind of authentication too in the more recent versions of it.  But Quicken doesn't support the newer versions of the OFX protocol and of course OAuth2, but I think the one reason this is true is because it is unlikely that any financial institution will update their OFX server to use it.

In the OFX log you can see what version of OFX the financial institution is using.
Here is the version Citi Cards is using:
VERSION:103

That can be read as 1.03.  The latest version of OFX is 2.2.1 (they are working on releasing 2.3).

BTW interesting enough the same group that is maintaining FDX is now maintaining OFX too.
OFX Work Group - The Spec (financialdataexchange.org)

neil154

But am I correct, that with Express Web Connect my login information is still stored on servers someplace and with direct connect the only place my login information is stored is on my Windows PC?

Chris_QPW

neil154 said:

But am I correct, that with Express Web Connect my login information is still stored on servers someplace and with direct connect the only place my login information is stored is on my Windows PC?

That is correct.

For Express Web Connect (without the plus) yes, they are definitely stored on a server:
Why don't I need to enter my bank password to download from my bank?

And yes, for Direct Connect, the only place they are stored is in the Password Vault in your data file (that is provided that you use the Password Vault, otherwise the password isn't stored anywhere {you enter it each time you run One Step Update}).